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Well he got a reaction out of you, you've got to give him that. You gave him exactly what he wanted, you played right into his hands

The Big Tax Case Verdict Since the verdict of the FTTT on The Rangers "big tax case" was made public on Tuesday 20th November 2012, we have had over the top declarations from many in the Scottish mainstream media that the former club had "won" the case. Now we also have many of the former incumbents of the club, which existed until this year, climbing out from under the rocks they disappeared under to declare a great victory for the former club and looking to blame all and sundry for the death of Rangers. Let's take a step back and look at the overall picture. The first tier tribunal hears appeals against decisions relating to tax made by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Rangers appealed a claim by HMRC, which resulted in one of the most high profile cases Scotland and possibly the UK has ever seen. The FTTT decision was made on the basis of a 2:1 verdict, the decision was not unanimous and which may, lets not forget, still be appealed. Ultimately, we are all aware that Rangers operated a scheme which allowed them to offer packages to attract players who would not otherwise have been obtainable. What Rangers have "won" is a potential reduction in the tax liability due to be paid. What we have seen following the issue of the decision is the reemergence of the men who were ultimately responsible for the death of Rangers Football Club, not as you would think to show remorse for their previous actions but in fact to attempt to lay blame at the door of HMRC and all those who apparently were ruthless and vindictive in their attempts to destroy the club. First of all there is the man who was at the top of the tree for decades, the man who called all the shots, the man that spent far out with his means in the pursuit of success, the man who systematically destroyed Rangers and who had a hugely detrimental impact on the whole of Scottish Football, it is of course David Murray. Here is a man that claimed to have been duped by someone who had less credibility than Chemical Ali but also claimed he was confident all along of "winning the big tax case". If he was so confident why did he seemingly refuse to accept any potential liability at the time the club was up for sale? Before Craig Whyte came along the club had been up for sale since around 2007 yet no one would consider buying due to the potential problems they faced. If David Murray was so confident, as well as sticking to his statement of only selling to someone who could take Rangers forward, why did he not agree to sell the club to such an individual or consortium on the understanding that he would be responsible for any liabilities as a result of "the big tax case"? We then have Paul Murray throwing his sixpence worth in, demanding investigations and having to ask himself "were people acting with a degree of malice towards Rangers?" and even more alarmingly, though in the grand scheme of things probably not surprising, seeking some sort of damages claim against, well, everyone by the sounds of things. This is a man who was part of the hierarchy who, it seems, overseen and approved their reckless spending sprees over the years. A man who apparently attempted to buy the club on the proviso that David Murray would take on the potential tax liability. His Blue Knights consortium were found out to be nothing more than bravado and bluster, he then slinked off into the wilderness with his tail between his legs. He now has the audacity to ask why it took so long for a decision to be reached and also mentioning in recent statement "moral and legal" responsibilities. Perhaps Mr. Murray could confirm why investigating officers had such difficulties obtaining documents relevant to the investigation? Maybe if they had been forthcoming a bit quicker the result could have been determined much sooner than it was? Instead of these blowhards in suits coming out claiming victories and mentioning morals, what they should be doing is addressing the fans of the club they destroyed and apologizing for their actions over the decades. The cause of death of Rangers Football club was not due to the actions of HMRC it was due to the utter failure and complete mismanagement by the club custodians. Regardless of the big or even wee tax case, the club went into administration owing a reported £55 million pounds to over 270 creditors. Despite the club introducing a scheme which gave them the upper hand over their competitors, they still attempted to live out with their means and as a result were liquidated. HMRC have a statutory duty on behalf of the public purse to pursue what they regard as tax avoidance. That's exactly what they did in the case of Rangers, its exactly what they did in the case of the Jersey based K2 scheme which "benefited" the likes of Jimmy Carr and resulted in the Prime Minister stating "some of these schemes we have seen are quite frankly morally wrong". The chancellor, during his budget speech no less, describing illegal tax evasion and legal but aggressive tax avoidance as "morally repugnant" and various other MP's stating their objections to such schemes. Yet here we are in our little country seeing a media outrage at HMRC's attempts to claim back money which they feel is due. During the course of this whole circus that has been "the big tax case" ordinary fans have become familiar with terms and phraseology that you would never have before heard in the pubs or in the stands but discussions over EBT's, creditors, PAYE, VAT, Administrators and eventually liquidators were almost as common place as who was playing up front or who was in the treatment room. The FTTT decision, although clearly a major news story has no real impact on the current state of Scottish football, it refers to an entity that no longer exists, so why football "journalists" are focusing on the result is beyond me and most other reasonable minds. These media hacks would be better spending what little time they have left in their positions reporting on what is happening to our game now and what might happen in the future. They made no attempt at all to uncover the real truth of what caused the destruction of Rangers so they should stay well clear of peddling more lies and attempting to report on issues that they clearly do not understand. These media whores had an opportunity to investigate and report on the dealings of Rangers Football Club for years, yet they decided to ignore the real stories and instead splash the moonbeams all over their back and front pages. They had an opportunity to help address the real issues and even potentially avoid the club being liquidated but they failed miserably. They have a chance to redeem themselves by actually asking questions and reporting on the current goings on at The Rangers Football Club Limited incorporated 29/05/12 or maybe have a wee look at Rangers Football PLC incorporated 16/11/12, will they do that? Of course they won't, what they will do is regurgitate whatever the relevant PR people tell them, write columns completely devoid of fact and ignore the real stories that are staring them in the face and allow those fronting the team playing in Division 3 to continue in their attempts to fleece genuine fans of their hard earned cash. So ask yourself, with all these headlines of VICTORY who actually won in this whole farce?

Nothing's changed though. Still liquidated Still 4th tier Still cheats

Continued failure to pay creditors along with illegal use of ebts in almost half the cases reviewed amounts to a serious case of financial doping by the now defunct team. Hopefully this verdict serves to strengthen the dual contract case and we will see football justice against the worst case of cheating in living memory

The Penguin.

They didn't die on a technicality. The died because of huge debt - irrespective of the big tax case. I genuinely struggle to empathise with OF fans. Their experience of - and relationship with - football is so remote from my own.

Liquidated but not really liquidated. Loans that aren't really loans by anyones definition of the word, and consequences construed as terrible punishments. What a monumental red neck Rangers and their fans are

This stops...NOW.

And that moment is after you go into administration get liquidated and die ,,,,well played sir.

Yes, the vast majority of the cases considered were decreed "loans"*. Note that your club conceded that around thirty or so were not "loans", and that they lost several other cases. This leaves us with thirty-odd cases of players being paid massive sums without informing the football authorities that these sums were being paid. The panel are sitting to decide whether Rangers paid massive sums to players without informing the football authorities that these sums were being paid. If the panel decides that Rangers did this, then you're guilty of cheating. Given that this is the case, what are you basing your judgement that the SPL are running a "Kangaroo court" on? This is before we get to the point that, even if their Lordships had found your club 100% innocent - which they categorically did not, since they found you guilty on several counts, and your club admitted to being guilty on many others - the SPL commission would still have to hear the evidence, then produce a report to confirm that Rangers are 100% innocent**. Now, David Murray knows that the SPL commission are required to reach a verdict. Craig Whyte knows the SPL commission are required to reach a verdict. The Sun, the Daily Record, Jim Traynor, the various Rangers supporters group - all of them know that the SPL commission are required to reach a verdict. That being the case, why are all of these businessmen, journalists and supporters pretending that they don't know this, by demanding that the inquiry be halted? I'll answer this for you - it's because there's a lot of shysters and chancers openly lying about this case, and the biggest offenders are all affiliated to your club. (Again, this isn't to deny that your club might wriggle out of this. They are experts at slithering away from any and all responsibility and may yet slime their way out of the reach of justice). *They were not "loans" in any other phraseology than the ludicrous bullshit patter of tax law, which is designed explicitly to enable wealthy conmen like your former owners. **Which they aren't.

The battle is over. Dane Bowers has called me a 'twat' and finally blocked me. Here is the conversation in full for anyone interested - Dane: Christopher Maloney must feel guilty and embarrassed surely? Me: Why would he feel guilty and embarrassed? He's in a competition. The aim of entering a competition is to win it. However, you should feel 'guilty' and 'embarrassed' about this - …Dane: your right...selling nearly a quarter of a million singles in one week is REALLY embarrassing! #mug Me: I didn't say that the amount sold was embarrassing. I was talking more about the actual quality of the song. The amount sold isn't linked to 'quality'. For example, Crazy Frog and the 'Ketchup Song' sold even more. They aren't considered to be examples of musical greatness. You rose to the bait of the wrong guy, Dane. Apologies. But I wish you all the best for the future x Dane: but kind sir..they ARE seen as genius songs.. because YOU don't like then or they aren't seen as credible doesn't change the fact. so stop thinking you're being clever...you're not...simple Me: Yup, and Christopher Maloney is clearly popular with a lot of people. Just because YOU don't like him doesn't change the fact. Congratulations on contradicting yourself. And the Crazy Frog may be 'catchy', but 'genius'? Oh dear.. Give up, Bowers. Dane: listen you twat...you don't think that to sell that many copies of a song like that isnt genius? sort yourself out... (Dane blocks me) Me: You sidestepped the point about Christopher Maloney. You obviously wanted the last word. But you have failed. Bye Dane. X

The 404 error message already clarified that you complete tool Is WKR Bond; 1. A tool 2. A fucking tool. 3. Sitting with a tool rammed up his jacksie. 4. A secret agent. And nae luck to the RTC - resourceful people seen his attempts to dump his lies coming and made suitable arrangements to preserve his muck.

No, but when he was being cross examined he said "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition".

Mea culpa!

Six Feet Under.

Robbed a shop a couple of days ago expecting major loot. All I got was what must've been around 6 days takings and 2 charity tins.

No one did so f**k off.

It gets much better Today's RTC: Not Found, Error 404 The page you are looking for no longer exists. Perhaps you can return back to the site's homepage and see if you can find what you are looking for. Curiously (hilariously) Google cache reveals this from RTC: "Alastair, Sir David, Martin: as we say in Glasgow: “Come ahead!” They are coming ahead, RTC, they are.

And you'd know all about government departments and security issues, interesting to hear the views of a genuine secret agent. Appreciated Norman.

Officer, there must be thousands of Mulvaney's out there. Ohh that's good.

Must be more subtle.

You do realise ten million is an eight figure number don't you??? 10,000,000 ETA - apologies if its been mentioned, I can hardly keep up.

Shred-It Ltd glasgow Owed £444 I’ve been lucky (or unlucky) enough to have been able to find some time to read through sections of the FTTT ruling document. There is a lot in it and I don’t blame the media for not publishing every paragraph ‘word for word’ … there are very few saddos like me out there would be that interested. However what is annoying is the blatant cherry picking going on with regards to the ‘Headlines’ over the last day or so. Even the good part for Old Rangers is, in many ways, quite damning.Not that this is the time for any more negativity for the fans of those who play from Ibrox stadium. Seize the good news lads … Run with it for as long as possible. With regards to the things that were going on (based on the document obviously) at that club/company there are far too many things to comment on just now. The reason for writing this part, is that the MIH/RFC seem to have “won” their appeal (not on all of them may I add) based on some evidence not actually existing. When HMRC requested information in relation to the EBTs there appears to be no evidence available, basically ‘mislaid’. On the flip side … on files seized unexpectedly from the Club, side-letters were there. Below are some extracts from the document that made me shake my head in disbelief. Are the Main Stream Media reading this document …. Maybe they are just taking their time? ; By the way poor wee Shred-it Glasgow Ltd. one of the many creditors wont get their £444! ————- The auditors were also told that the paperwork for Mr Purple was ‘mislaid’, (and therefore was not available for the auditors to inspect). ————————– In the course of their enquiry there had been concealment from HMRC of many relevant documents. In footballer employment files volunteered to HMRC sideletters had been removed apparently. However, in files seized unexpectedly from the Club side-letters were present. ————————– The conduct of the Murray Group in general, and Mr Red in particular, in the course of HMRC’s enquiry went beyond the description of ‘a lack of candour’. It would be judicial to conclude that it had been obstructive and obscurantist, and there is evidence of active concealment of documents, as the Respondents submit. Equally, to describe Mr Red as ‘somewhat defensive’ in giving his sworn testimony (para 10 MD) would be an understatement. On more than one occasion, Mr Red had attempted to mislead the Tribunal. The following paragraphs give examples of how Mr Red had made certain assertions or denials in an attempt to create an impression of the nature and operation of the Trust, which was commensurate with his own understanding of what would be the legitimate scope of its use as a tax-saving scheme. ————————– It is not accepted that there had been no deliberate concealment of the side-letters, in view of how the first side-letter only came to light through the seizure of Mr Berwick’s file nearly four years into the enquiry. It is not accepted that the nondisclosure of the side-letters arose from a ‘credible’ view that Mr Red considered the side-letters irrelevant to HMRC’s enquiry. As a former Inspector of Taxes, Mr Red knew, or should have known, that the side-letters were highly relevant to the enquiry. The side-letters showed a form of contractual arrangement, and they proved linkage between the sums contributed into the sub-trusts at the appointed dates and their withdrawal as loans from the sub-trusts as contemporaneous transactions. ————————– A fair conclusion to be drawn from the circumstantial evidence on the one hand, and Mr Red’s oral evidence on the other, is that the side-letters had been actively concealed. The reason for the concealment might have been, in Mr Red’s view, the side-letters could be incriminating evidence against the impression of the trust operation that he had been trying to give.

If the bungling lawyer was 100% convinced, he wouldn't have been busy deconstructing his blow to remove all traces of fake documents and references to them - and neither would he be publicly declaring he will never, ever publish them again in any shape or form. Plastics are forming queues for his forthcoming 'read all about it' book as we speak. He's learned well from the IRA writer - preaching to the converted can be lucrative. Even if you're peddling complete and utter shite - they'll buy it nevertheless. As for the RTC fantasiser and the many others - the only thing they are 100% convinced of is that hordes of diddies and plastics were hanging on their every word. Some still are.

I think after the new thrifty wage structure comes into force at Ibrox it will be the Rangers fans moaning that after buying shares and season books the standard of player at Ibrox is below what they expected.

I guess we'll see how strong or weak it is and, like I say, I certainly wouldn't put it past your old club to find some underhanded method of sliming their way out of their current predicament. They've done little else, over the last few years. But I will say this - what you're doing here is shouting No it isnae! and No it wisnae! to every point put to you, regardless of whether these points are supported by facts that are a matter of public record or are just inferences drawn from what we currently know. That might make you feel better, but your club's lawyers might want to concoct a sturdier defence than yours.

They have still been liquidated though right ? Superb 'victory' lads. Still going strong. :lol:

Missing man from Dundee, not seen for several days and answers to the name of Jum. Any information will be gladly recieved.

So you admit then that Charles Green couldn't really care less? As for the "Scottish fitba authorities had their arses handed back to them on a very shiny plate", forgive me if I'm wrong here, but tha transfer ban IS actually in place isn't it?

And let's not forget the red-faced outburst from a very fat man: "You b*****ds have cheated US for eleven years." The RFFF has around half a million available to fight such a case. I'll happily donate more if need be. I want to see this in court so much - it could be enough to tip the apple-cart on SPL finances on its own. As Murray's lawyers get to work there is a reason amongst it all that simply cannot be ignored - sorry just wont cut it.

aye Rangers 'won' the tax Case. still,there was a squad of players at Ibrox, hoovering up payments / pseudo loans etc that were never included in the contracts lodged with the SPL/SFA. If it hadn't been for those financially complex arrangements they would not have been playing for Rangers. Rangers cheated. Systematically. Stick your Tax Case 'victory' Let's get those titles Lance Armstronged.... plenty other points discussed here - http://wingsland.podgamer.com/big-tax-case-verdict-the-reality/#more-24908

Alastair Johnston had admitted to old rangers having some dual contracts. But says it should only result in a slap on the wrist punishment. Hope the slap is across the face with titles stripped. Oh and remember orcs out of the 87 players and staff investigated for ebt 36 were guilty so how the hell can you claim victory. You cheated plain and simple

Rangers liquidated for nothing!

Jim Traynor ?? ffs lol That is all

Now you really are taking the piss! There's not a lot of credit to be handed out to any journalists involved in this - at least in the last couple of months - that's true. But Traynor? You really must be joking. The media's handling of the whole saga has been shambolic, but Traynor did his best to STIFLE debate, poured scorn on the fans who are the lifeblood of the game, and did everything he could to push the idea of planting a brand new club straight into the SPL. He's not had a lot of credibility for years, but his performance this year has been ridiculous. He fucking SHOULD be ashamed to claim he's a journalist.

do you not think it's maybe time for you to let rangers go their own way and move on with your life? you are in danger of ending up like one of those japanese soldiers that spent 30 years in the jungle thinking world war 2 was still on going.

heard tonight Queens fan Colin Galloway aka SOOTY from New Abbey (maybole) passed away today. He was a great character, I was sat beside him at Ibrox earlier this season and don't know if it was the game or his banter for the 3 hours that I enjoyed the most. Rest in peace wee man.

Are you for real? Go on to you tube and have a search, f*8king halfwit.

Oh, I agree with that. The Israelis seem to be able to get away with whatever they want, simply by being the only Western facing democracy in the region. And the only (current) nuclear power. Noone comes out of this looking innocent. I'm geting royally fucked off with the black and white response of many of the posters on here though. Not one of us - not one - whose houses were being targetted by rocket attacks or another country's military would be anything other than likely to respond in kind I would suggest, and to demonise either set of civilians is loathsome and lazy. Both sides have leaders who are religious zealots or zionists. Both have the obliteration of the opposition as the only desirable outcome. Until moderates everywhere - in the Arab world, Israel and the rest of the world, start to respond to that, noone is going to be safe.

Serious question. If "Rangers died for nothing" and an early decision could have saved them.... Why did the club withhold and conceal documents that might have made this whole process complete a long time ago? Seems to my uninitiated eyes that they thought they were bang to rights and were trying to cover it up. It will be interesting to see what happens when the tax man asks for the tax on the loans (not the repayments). For the rest of us, does this whole "loan that doesn't ever need to be paid back" give a whole new way to transfer money around without having to pay things like Capital Gains Tax or Inheritance Tax? Just give it as a loan and save yourself a bundle!

I f***ing resent that!

Can I have a go at this? No problem with a 'no' vote and if the SPL had left it at that then fine. We broke the rules and should suffer the consequences. Three things stick in my craw: 1. The whole 'Armageddon' scenario. This was f**k all to do with us and shame on SPL fans for not giving Doncaster pelters for it. 2. Doncaster and Regan trying to fast-track us in to SFL1. This was so disrespectful to the clubs in the lower tiers. 3. The bullying over TV rights. Sure, vote us out. Don't then come after our media rights. Just get to f**k and play your own league and sell its rights on its own merits. In sum, we've no problem getting voted out of the SPL. Having then the SPL trying to prop up their league by selling us? Not on.

Thank you to both you and No 8 for your replies to the my question. I haven't been to any of your games this season and both of you have. I'm glad that you are seeing positives for all in the experience. Cheers KFM

Not sure if anyone else has done it, but I'll put my hands up and admit I was totally wrong, on numerous occasions throughout this thread. I thought that Rangers were gaining an unfair advantage by gifting massive payments to employees and calling them "loans", even though none have ever been paid back and there is no expectation they would be paid back, as part of a legally suspect scheme designed to avoid enormous amounts of tax. I also thought that Rangers didn't declare these payments to the football authorities because they knew the scheme was legally suspect. I now realise that Rangers weren't gaining any unfair advantage at all when they gifted most of the massive payments to employees and called them "loans", even though none have ever been paid back and there is no expectation they will ever be paid back, as part of a legally sound scheme to avoid enormous amounts of tax. (Although i do recognise that in a minority of cases, they were actually using a legally suspect scheme involving these so-called "loans" to avoid enormous amounts of tax). I also now admit that Rangers didn't declare these to the football authorities because... Well actually, I don't know why they didn't declare them. Presumably, it was because the scheme was so unimpeachable that the club had full confidence in their validity. Anyway, I wholeheartedly apologise for calling your club tax cheats and scammers. This was based on my false belief that a "loan" is supposed to be paid back, rather than gifted tax-free in perpetuity. Sorry, Rangers fans, if I caused you any offence. The judges sure have made a monkey out if me today. Well, two of them did, anyway.

And as for not fleecing the tax payer, Rangers were still avoiding tax, no matter the legal details of their chosen scheme.

Burds that bite when you're kissing. What the f**k. Stop biting my face. That is not turning me on just making me bleed. Dinnie.

Something Ecto'd this way comes... This lassie is a fine specimen of the 'Old School', a pure strain of True Raver. Observe the white gloves. She's not wearing those because she's a mime act, she's wearing them because she's Hardcore. Observe not only the Rez vest, but the Rez logo tattoo. This dame fucking kens. She's paid £25 for an Eccie. She's danced for 19 consecutive hours in an abandoned warehouse in Ayrshire. She's fucked every Bam Dancer in a half mile radius under the pretence of it being the Second Summer of Love, and the bairns she fired out as a result are all named after techno DJs she saw at the FUBAR. Moby! Yer fuckin' tea's oot! If you were to shout, "Whistle posse - MAKE SOME FACKING NOISE," at her she'd instinctively go tonto and start bellowing the song of her people, which is a high-pitched screech that could fell entire flocks of geese flying south from the winter at heights up to 3000 ft. If you could stop her jaw swinging long enough for her to engage in conversation, every single sentence coming out her near-toothless mouth would be prefixed or suffixed with the phrase "back in the day". Hardcore, you know the score, oggy-oggy-oggy, oi-oi-oi. Just when I was warming to this saucer-eyed buffoon I clocked the 'tiocfaidh ár lá' on her arm and thought much, much less of her. "Our day will come," indeed. I'd hate to be the one to burst her Ecto-bubble and inform her day is long gone. Still: Rave on, sister. Rave the f**k on.

Hello from eastern Europe! Or possibly western Europe I would rather not declare. Does anyone need faster broadband?

Save Walter White

No..... Saul Goodman is the best character.