paul-r-cfc Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Been a few grumblings in the TV show thread about spoilers and the like so thought it would be best to have one dedicated to discussion of the books.Think we should just leave spoiler tags and assume everyone reading is up to date on all books released si far.Can talk about what we expect from winds of winter and what we all think of various different theories. Ie, Jon snow son of rhaegar and manderly's Frey pies!I won't post any spoilers in the op to give non caught up folk fair warning about what to expect below BOOK SPOILERS BELOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Good point, well made. Even though i have no idea what any of that means. Moi non plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Ok, here come the book spoilers. You have been suitably warned http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Theories Plenty of theories here about certain things - some ridiculous and some more plausible Most interesting ones I think are the ones relating to Jon Snow - a lot of people think he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Interesting one and could explain the 'promise' Ned made to his siter as she lay dying. Promise to look after my son and don't let it become known that he is Targaryen blood (or Robert would have had him killed) Also interesting that despite the scenes at the end of ADOD, most are convinced Jon Snow will survive and GRRM has hinted that this is indeed the case. Some say he will be resurrected by Mellisandre or that the assassins failure to kill Ghost will allow him to live on. This could free him from his oath as membership of the Night's Watch only ceases upon one's 'death'. If Jon 'dies' and is resurrected will he then be free to march on Winterfell, aid Stannis and become a legitamised Stark and Lord of Winterfell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Wonder how many folk will come in and get angry at the spoilers. I can hardly remember a thing about the last two books, might give em another read to catch up on stuff, didn't enjoy them as much as the first three though so it could be pretty hard going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Wonder how many folk will come in and get angry at the spoilers. I can hardly remember a thing about the last two books, might give em another read to catch up on stuff, didn't enjoy them as much as the first three though so it could be pretty hard going. They've been well warned so will serve them right I rattled through them all in the Summer one after another so all generally quite fresh Agreed - some good stuff in both but a far cry from the first three with little as memorable really. A feast for crows was a bit of a slog at times too. Although I was caught off guard big time when Varys came back at the end of ADOD and there seems to be some exciting stuff coming - 'Aegon' landing in Westeros, Mereen at war with Daenerys meeting up with the Dothraki again, Stannis marching on Winterfell (or already having been defeated if Ramsay's letter is to be believed) as well as the upcoming trial by combat of Cersei. Surely with all this coming, GRRM can't mess it up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Since finishing the latest book almost 3 years ago I don't really give a shit about ASOIAF any more, other than to warn new readers of the lack of progress. I started reading the books about 5 years ago so I can only imagine what it's like for those that have been reading them from the beginning almost 20 years ago. I was seriously infatuated with the books when I first read them but now it has put me off ever starting an unfinished series. I'm also of the opinion that because he has taken so long to write the books all of his 'twists' have been worked out by his 'fan-dom' so he'll be trying to change them in some way so as to not be too predictable which is part of the reason why we see very little progress with plot or the writing of the next book, the man is scared.........and greedy of course!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 They've been well warned so will serve them right I rattled through them all in the Summer one after another so all generally quite fresh Agreed - some good stuff in both but a far cry from the first three with little as memorable really. A feast for crows was a bit of a slog at times too. Although I was caught off guard big time when Varys came back at the end of ADOD and there seems to be some exciting stuff coming - 'Aegon' landing in Westeros, Mereen at war with Daenerys meeting up with the Dothraki again, Stannis marching on Winterfell (or already having been defeated if Ramsay's letter is to be believed) as well as the upcoming trial by combat of Cersei. Surely with all this coming, GRRM can't mess it up.... The first 3 books started off at a pace, but I noticed there were peaks, then build up, then peaks. Feast for Crows and the first half of A Dance with Dragons were both really designed to set up the exciting end to A Dance with Dragons, the last 500 pages or so were excellent in my eyes, and the beginning of Winds of Winter. My requests for the new book when it does eventually come; less Bran and the Starks generally as their stories appear to be getting stretched for no real reason, more of the 3 Lannister siblings and more movement with both Targaryens. Stannis doesn't particularly interest me much either, but with much of his story now intertwined with the fortunes of the Watch, his story has become more important. I'd like to see more from Lady Stoneheart, but struggling for a PoV character with her, unless that's where Jaime ends up? I've started reading the story from the start again as I have a feeling Winds of Winter will be out next year. It'll take that long to slog my way through the books again probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Yeah, ADOD's second part made up for a lot of the previous shortcomings. On the Lannister three, they all look in serious danger right now: Jamie taken by Brienne to apparently get Sansa who is with the hound (we know she isn't and seems like this was Stoneheart's price for letting Brienne and Podrick live - sell out Jamie). Tyrion with the Second Sons (I think?) in what promises to be a pretty brutal battle with the aim of him finding Daenerys but I assume he isn't aware that she is AWOL. Cersei's fate is one that I'm very much looking forward to finding out - looks like she has a Frankenstein Mountain fighting her corner so don't rule out a return to influence from her Bran seems to have reached his destination, can't see him leaving his present location anytime soon,. Not sure where Arya intends to go and if she remains with them in Bravoos, she would need to stay out of her families problems but of course, there's every chance she'll come back to Westeros at the first given opportunity. Sansa and Rickon's stories could now get interesting as they're both being sought after to reclaim the North for the Starks. See if Davos has any luck on Skagos. I don't think Ramsay's letter was the truth, still expecting Stannis and his host to be on route to Winterfell, possibly with a zombie Jon Snow coming to their aid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Ok, here come the book spoilers. You have been suitably warned http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Theories Plenty of theories here about certain things - some ridiculous and some more plausible Most interesting ones I think are the ones relating to Jon Snow - a lot of people think he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Interesting one and could explain the 'promise' Ned made to his siter as she lay dying. Promise to look after my son and don't let it become known that he is Targaryen blood (or Robert would have had him killed) Also interesting that despite the scenes at the end of ADOD, most are convinced Jon Snow will survive and GRRM has hinted that this is indeed the case. Some say he will be resurrected by Mellisandre or that the assassins failure to kill Ghost will allow him to live on. This could free him from his oath as membership of the Night's Watch only ceases upon one's 'death'. If Jon 'dies' and is resurrected will he then be free to march on Winterfell, aid Stannis and become a legitamised Stark and Lord of Winterfell? Something that theory site doesn't mention (fully) is the crannogmen. Jojen reed took great pains to tell bran a story about a crannogman who left the swamps and ended up being defended by a mystery knight (probably a stark) at a tourney (probably harrenhall). This ties into the ashara dayne theory of Johns parenthood. Other than this story, it is never explained why the reeds have such strong ties to the starks however the reeds should be some of the few who know the truth of Johns parentage. For me, this makes ashara dayne most likely as Johns mother although I like the theory of john being a targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Never heard of them. Can have a one sentence premise please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Since finishing the latest book almost 3 years ago I don't really give a shit about ASOIAF any more, other than to warn new readers of the lack of progress. I started reading the books about 5 years ago so I can only imagine what it's like for those that have been reading them from the beginning almost 20 years ago. I was seriously infatuated with the books when I first read them but now it has put me off ever starting an unfinished series. I'm also of the opinion that because he has taken so long to write the books all of his 'twists' have been worked out by his 'fan-dom' so he'll be trying to change them in some way so as to not be too predictable which is part of the reason why we see very little progress with plot or the writing of the next book, the man is scared.........and greedy of course!! You're just a fanny tbh. The reason why there's a lack of progress is that he loosed far too many plot lines within a slow time frame for it ever to quickly come together again - it's as simple as that. Much like the Wheel of Time series it'll have to be extended and books split again under a different author using the same ideas. It's at least 10 years and a good few books from a proper completion IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Incidentally, the more surreal shit like the White Walkers and the Fire God must surely be central to Martin's eventual writing draw-together, yet almost inevitably gets drowned out by the dynastic storylines as they're clearly easier and more enjoyable to write. If you were editing the book series from the start then you'd be ditching the Wall altogether - it's been developed far too much without any obvious solution in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_AUFC Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Anyone read the preview chapter "Mercy" posted on Martins website? Loving the fact Arya is getting trained up to be a Faceless Man while still maintaining her old self. Obviously coming back to reek havoc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars fan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I've not read it yet, but Arya is probably my favourite character. She will more than likely die though, if this piece of foreshadowing is anything to go by: "Youll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." She won't die. She goes through a hell of a rough time though. She could be the last one standing. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 The Reek chapter from WOW confirms that the letter is false.Yeah I've read that but with the way he plays about with the chronology between books you can't rule it out being set before the chapter where it's read at the wall!But yeah, definitely fake but in any case I fancy Stannis' chances if they can make it to Winterfell. Obviously there's a lot of division, there with the manderly's in particular. Willam had already made it clear that he is willing to accept Stannis as his king. If Stannis arrives with a newly legitimised Jon STARK, will they side with his forces and act against the Boltons from within? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 You're just a fanny tbh. The reason why there's a lack of progress is that he loosed far too many plot lines within a slow time frame for it ever to quickly come together again - it's as simple as that. Much like the Wheel of Time series it'll have to be extended and books split again under a different author using the same ideas. It's at least 10 years and a good few books from a proper completion IMO. Why thank you, your opinion is important to me. I particularly value the thoughts of arrogant self righteous w@nkers! He has verbal diarrheoa when his final, final, final deadline is approaching that is obvious enough doesn't make anything else I've said untrue though. You'd think he was the only author out there with complicated plotlines, the difference is professional authors don't write themselves into a corner. GRRM has always seen himself as a TV writer, he only went back to writing the books because he had been punted from the TV work, now he's back in his element I'd be surprised if half of the next book is done. You've got one thing spot on though, this series will end up EXACTLY like the WoT series. The man has been milking this 'trilogy' for over 20 years, selling all sorts of tat (miniatures, replica weapons, water damaged calendars/books from his basement, wild-fucking-cards) rather than write the books. Doesn't matter how complicated the plot is if you don't write. The man is frightened of criticism, he censors the slightest negative opinions on his blog FFS. I actually care more about GRRM's charlatanism than I do about the story now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Having read the books, I'd say that the series is much better. The TV show cuts out massive chunks of extraneous waffle, hacks out lots of unneeded characters, takes all the most compelling scenes and uses them in ways that are far more coherent and dramatic. Also, there's a serious quality dive starting with a Feast for Crows, at which point more or less all of the characters just start aimlessly wandering about feeling bored and frustrated (as does the reader) or going on lengthy treks that the reader knows are pointless. Each of the previous books contained numerous great set-pieces and WTF moments - the last two have one between them. GRRM seems to have badly lost the plot, and I can't see him pulling it back together. I suspect that the series, OTOH, is just going to cherry-pick all the best bits; ditch the long, meandering plotlines going nowhere; cull the characters back to a manageable level and hopefully tie everything up in short order. If they have to basically ignore Martin's intentions, well, too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 A Feast of Crows was my least favourite book, partly because it was entirely in King's Landing whereas all the action was elsewhere. As for a new book, I'm not holding my breath! A Game of Thrones - 1996 A Clash of Kings - 1999 A Storm of Swords - 2000 A Feast for Crows - 2005 A Dance with Dragons - 2011 I reckon the TV series (currently in the second half os ASOS) will catch up the books and possibly overtake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 I GRRM must've been on the sick writing a storm of swords What are folks throughts on the new directions the TV show took yesterday? Glad of the change for Brans storyline tbh as his wandering through the north is an exceptionally boring part of the books although I do still harbour hope of meeting Coldhands! Also the final scene showing what appears to be the WW's leader or night's king. Not gotten that far in the book but would obviously have been difficult to describe it with none of the pov characters venturing that far north. It is implied though in the books that that's what happens to Cratser's boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No real problems with the changes, especially Bran's. I think it's quite good getting to see a lot of things the book can't show us because of the pov structure. There does seem to be more and more book spoilers creeping in though. You wonder what will happen when the TV show starts to catch up with the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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