1 point from 54 Champions League games for Celtic, albeit a good point in the Nou Camp. It's not even as if it's all difficult teams they've played, Rosenborg, Anderlecht, Aalborg, Copenhagen are all beatable home and away in my opinion. They've been humbled comprehensively by the likes of Benfica & Shaktar aswell, and that's before we even get to the big teams.

No point in talking about the rests Euro failure as it's been well documented how bad the failure was (especially Rangers losing to Hearts' feeder team).

All Scots teams out of Europe straight away again, let's hope for some Burley magic !

We dont have the quality to compete in the CL I'm afraid

Apart from the last two seasons when you have been top 16?

I'm talking about this season

Fair enough. I don't think there has been much difference though, apart from the rub of the green. Missed penalty against Aalborg, conceded against Man U late rather than them missing the pen the other season. All the little things which Celtic were due to go against them.

Let's not deflect from the true issue here. Gordon Strachan is not Celtic mind...emm...good enough. Saint Martin would have failed in a truly heroic, hooped manner.

Very true. He wouldn't have led Celtic to embarrassing defeat in Scandinavia, nor would he have presided over 4th place in a Champs League group.

The Celtic fans are right. He must be brought back..

Dont know of any Celtic fan who wants MON back. Roy Keane maybe.

No celtic fans have said that, only the idiots who pretend there irish

A quick straw poll from the usual suspects on this board would beg to differ I expect

Roy Keane may very well relegate Sunderland this season. They are god awful and he has spent tens of millions making them so. He may become available in the summer.

Considering 2007/8 was viewed as a big success for Scottish football in general(last 16 for Celtic, Uefa Cup final for Rangers and Scotland being tragic losers after a few great wins), 2008/9 looks like an absolute disaster on the main fronts.

I think as Celtic supporters we might know the feelings of our fellow fans a bit more than a Falkirk fan

Yes the usua; suspects on this board are idiots of the highest order who are probably in their 4th year school stage of pretending to be Irish

Unfortunately for that argument, the other Celtic fans on the board, who would chop off an arm for that very happening, also claim to know the feelings of the fanbase at large.

Why Roy Keane out of interest? Just because he will very likely be sacked soon and available?

Think a few fans may have come in their breeks at the prospect of an Irish ex-Celt taking to the dugout.

I suspect you may be correct. Perhaps he will perform a similar role to his playing career, and manage Celtic for a few months when in his 70s then skim off a few million as a retirement gift from the fans?

Some of your posts come across like your too young to remember the beginning of the O'Neill era.

But take it from me, the mixture of pride, defiance mixed with - of course - disappointment which followed our defeats back then has gone.

Going out with head held high after beating Juventus?

Narrowly cheated by histrionics in Seville?

Extra-time cup defeats to brere *** where exhausted players gave everything?

Taking the battle for the League to the final day then painfully missing out?

I would suggest that recent failures have been considerably more meek. Since the bizarre and unprecedented 'double whammy' of Artmedia and Clyde, we have put together a team of rank rotten players with no heart - losing is now a formality.

What an achievement. Well done on that

[quote name='Beyemystic' date='Nov 26 2008, 12:27' post='2945584']
Some of your posts come across like your too young to remember the beginning of the O'Neill era.

But take it from me, the mixture of pride, defiance mixed with - of course - disappointment which followed our defeats back then has gone.

Going out with head held high after beating Juventus?

Narrowly cheated by histrionics in Seville?

Extra-time cup defeats to brere *** where exhausted players gave everything?

Taking the battle for the League to the final day then painfully missing out?


I can remember the beginning of the Jock Stein era.
WGS has a better record than MON with a vastly reduced budget. We couldnt even think about buying top Prem players like BBJ Sutton now.
I wouldnt be heartbroken if WGS left but I dont know if we could do that much with somebody else.

It wasn't to be this year, some not so good peformances and some bad luck. Yet we have gained the revenue from the competition, which is important for clubs like us and had a shot at The European Champions. Would have liked to have been in the Last 16 but didn't earn it, so looks like we will just win another league title. It looked that way already and now we are out of Europe surely its a certainty

I am one of Strachans few admirers on here. But i think that maybe the wee man has taken us as far as he can in Europe. I just hope he proves me wrong next season(if he's still in charge)

Still have one of the most incredible and fearing home records, oh well i guess its just SPL dominance then.

Agreed, but I don't think any other manager could take us further.

Finishing 2nd in a 2 horse race, well done

Seriously?

What has he done to merit a good job.

He's spunked Millions on players who are average, and is sitting in a spot that the side should be above.

I think it would be funny to see him spunk what Celtic had on extremely horrid players, he wouldn't last long at Celtic Park. He doesn't have the buying sense needed for the OF, they have too tight a budget.

A recent thread in the SPL section asked if anyone outwith the OF could win the SPL title again.

Could a Scottish club win in Europe again.Celtic/Rangers/Aberdeen have United came close.And even Hearts have had the odd decent run. Rangers and Celtic have recently played in Euro finals.

Given the massive spending power in Spain/Italy etc,are we where we are,because we have actually found our level?

Come on now. Fair enough the Porto players were at it with their antics, but Celtic were utterly outplayed in the final. The score reflected what would be considered one of those occasions where they had the rub of the green, as it were. On another night, Celtic could easily have shipped 6 or 7 to that Porto side.

Don't be silly, it was heartbreaking but our lads gave their all and could easily have won. We only shipped three because the brickie had one of his less inspiring nights. Remember that feeling of pride?

Now imagine what that great Porto side, Deco et al, would have done to our current shower of bargain basement numpties!

They could easily have won had their luck held out and Larsson had connected with a couple of headers in front of goal, but had their luck deserted them from the off, Porto could have skelped a good few past Celtic that night.

Porto's passing and off the ball movement was excellent that night, well worthy of respect. Pity their other tactics were worthy of contempt.

Considerin you drew with Man United at home this year, and beat Milan the year before, perhaps you would have sneaked a win?

You'd have lost in Porto obviously, but you were embarassed 3-0 there a few years ago, with Nuno Capucho of all people causing havoc. I'm pretty sure MON was manager during that particular massacre.

I think we are singing from the same hymnsheet here.



Now you come to mention it I'd much rather be going into the game with this current side.

Ricardo Carvalho and Jorge Costa might have coped admirably with Larsson and Sutton, but surely they would be quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing the leaden footed Samaras and bustling non-scoring midget Scott McDonald?

In midfield Deco was able to give the runaround to two all time greats in the shape of Neil Lennon and Paul Lambert, but how would he have coped against the brilliance of Barry Robson and/or Paul Hartley?

Looking for a foothold in the game we had to rely upon the non-stop running, guts and determination of Agathe, Thompson and Petrov. Obviously what we needed was an effete show pony like Nakamura to prance around like a complete passenger. Or Scott Brown doing headless chicken runs in his own half. All becomes clear!

I'm not arguing that MON's team had better players. He had more money to spend, and obviously had Larsson before arrival.

My argument is that Strachan's record is probably better than MON's, when you consider the lack of money he has and that he's not had Larsson to rely on. He's signed a few journeymen along the way, but MON did the same. Bobby Petta for example..

Good. Because to do so would be setting sail for fantasy island!



Aaargh! No he didn't for the millionth time!

We've been over and over this and gross, net, relative to the **** ...etc etc etc Strachan has shelled out far more which ever way you look at it - and in less time.



Who's to say Larsson would have reached the heights he did without MoN? Playing with Sutton took him to another level imo.



Well your argument is pish. See above.



Actually MoN inherited super Bobby too. Then proceded to revitalise him and unleash him on opponents at home and abroad who were cut to shreds by his dazzling wingplay.

Petta wasn't signed by O'Neill. He arrived on a free a year before O'Neill.

The O'Neill side would have sworded that Aalborg team, undoubtedly. They really were utter crap. In all honesty, on a good day, I'd have even fancied our chances against them.

Numpties were quick to compare Strachan's appalling failures in Copenhagen and Aalborg with Martin's teams' defeat in Rosenborg. But let's not overlook that Rosenborg were a highly experienced team at Champion's League level and comprised seasoned international players - not anonymous journeymen like the afore-mentioned Danish teams.

In 2001 oor Harald got a couple of breakaway goals by getting in behind our wingbacks and making a nuisance of himself, but aside from that we actually competed pretty well.

Fast forward 7 years and we now have a team who are totally inept at this level, even against the very weakest opposition imaginable.

As an illustration:

Rosenborg 2001:

Arni Arason: 63 international caps, Premiership with Man City

Janne Saarinen: 33 international caps, Bundesliga with 1860 Munchen
Christer Basma: 40 international caps
Frode Johnson: 33 international caps
Erik Hoftun: 30 international caps

Roar Strand: 42 international caps
Orjan Berg: 19 international caps, Bundesliga with 1860 Munchen
Bent Skammelsrud: 38 international caps, Bundesiga with Leverkusen, Premiership with Wimbledon
Christer George: 2 international caps, La Liga with Cordoba

Sigurd Rushfelt: 38 international caps, Birmingham, Santander, Austria Wien
Harald Martin ( ) Brattbakk: All time Norwegian League top scorer, 17 international caps

Aalburg 2008:

Karim Zaza: 3 international caps

Michael Beauchamp: 18 international caps
Steve Olfers
Michael Jakobsen
Martin Pedersen

Thomas Augustinussen: 1 international cap
Jeppe Curth
Caca
Kasper Risgaard

Thomas Enevoldsen
Andreas Johanssen: 16 international caps

Sigh. I have already proven this is bollocks.

Strachan has spent less than O'Neill net. This is fact.

I've been crediting MON all these years for signing the majestic Petta, and he didn't even do that. MON's signing record is looking poorer by the day.

Can't be bothered quoting the whole post, but I believe to include the Copenhagen defeat as an embarrassing one is wrong as I honestly believe WGS didn't give a shit. He left Maloney in Scotland and Nakamura on the bench and at that time they were, by a fair skelp, the best players in Scotland. He even gave Balde a starting place IIRC - something normally reserved for League Cup ties v Stenhousemuir or similar (Falkirk? )

You are confusing majestic Petta with the scintillating Steve Guppy.

You have to study your mercurial wing wizards a little more.

Name the countries they played for.

Norway, and a couple of Finns I think.

The point is that they had decent pedigree/top level experience, unlike Aarhus.

Not sure what Aarhus have to do with it.

And in any case, we were told O'Neill's Celtic could hold their own against anyone, so the number of caps is irrelevant. Unless of course that was a bit of a fib.

Sorry, muddled up my piddly wee Danish nonentities.



Well we beat Rosenborg at home so I'd class that as holding our own.

Obviously the Barcelona, Liverpool (etc. etc.) sides that we sworded back then had internationalists from the real big nations.

Great result. Well done on that.



Whereas Man Utd and AC Milan were shorn of such international talent when they were sworded?

I'm sure the Benfica and Copenhagen teams who were sworded would have had a good few internationals too. The criteria for "holding your own" is quite baffling. Surely a team that could hold their own could have mustered an away win at least once in the Champions League?

The criteria for a right good "swording" is nicely vague too.

The same Norway who are miles behind a poor Scotland side in the world rankings?

Same for Finland?

Celtic could, and should have beaten both. Both were terrible results.

Denmark's quality of football isn't too bad IMO, Aalborg must have beaten a number of decent sides to win the title last season.

The game was played slightly over 7 years ago, lol.

At the time, Norway were ranked 22nd, Scotland 47th and Finland a 'lowly' 49th. The next month, November 2001, Scotland and Finland swapped places and it wouldn't be until July 2006 until Scotland went above Finland in the rankings.

edit: removed link as fifa website isn't playing fair and decides that Scotland, Norway, Finland and Germany should instead be Spain, Italy, Germany and Brazil. Fifa=

I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that Rosenborg were not a better team than Aalborg, or at least did not have better players. When they sworded Celtic, it wasn't really a surprise. That's the point - Celtic were no more a European giant then than they have been under Strachan. They're about the same, IMO - capable of some great performances at home, sometimes beating the big boys, struggling if not unable to compete away from home, sometimes losing to teams they "should" beat.

The away form point is overstated IMO - Strachan's Celtic have shown that if you can beat the big boys at home, you might not even need an away result. If O'Neill's team had been able to beat the big boys at home more regularly, they'd maybe have made it through a group too. You win some, you lose some.

Indeed, and O'Neill was very fortunate that year Celtic got Juventus as the perfect time. i.e. when they were playing their reserves as it was a "dead rubber" to them.

Even allowing for that gifted 3 points against the big fish in the group, they still couldn't qualify.

Let's remember that season was the first time Celtic had ever qualified for the champion's league. The result in the first round against Ajax in Amsterdam was totally unlike anything we'd seen in the 20 years prior so there was a real sense of achievment.

Strachan managed to maintain O'Neill's progress for a couple of seasons, even qualifying twice due to a significantly easier draw and fortuitous results elsewhere.

But this season has given us a more realistic picture of where Chesney has taken us: backwards.