http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/news_detail.asp?ID=2510

Looks like the stinkies are getting desperate.

Putting aside Dundee FC's problems, it's an embarassing piece of deflection from Rangers.

Either that or Murray genuinely doesn't regard Rangers' conduct as a problem, in which case he is not a fit and proper person to be running a football club.

There is a problem you say maybe Murray was onto something.

You seem to believe that the Parkhead "stinkies" are also involved in the sectarianism which Murray is trying to deflect from.

Murray is just raising a point which many of his clubs fans hold and it is that Rangers are portrayed as the only sectarian club in Scotland. Hibs and Hearts, Dundee and Dundee Utd as well as Celtic all induldge in it.

A statement from Dundee is particularly rich having witnessed their songs last season.

The currant buns are the most sectarian club in the world.

Listen out for all those sectarian chants at the game on Tuesday night. It will sound like 50,000 Rangers fans, but it will actually be the 800 Dundee United fans.

Are you being serious? Your club and your friends from Edinburgh are the clubs who brought religion into football in this country!! Founded By Bigots for bigots and that is exactly how you have remained for 120 years!!

Im glad you knew who I was referring to.
You were the ones with the discriminatory signing policy.

Why would Dundee Utd be singing Protestant songs?

Sweep, sweep, sweep.

We've been accused of it before by Rangers before, as it happens....

I'll find the link soon, I promise.

Edited to add: here we are.

Rangers are not the only club with a sectarian element in Scotland.

They are the only club with a sectarian element as huge and problematic as theirs, though. Nobody else - not even Celtic - matches it.

I think you'll find Celtic are just as sectarian but don't have the songs to reflect so. They're songs about defensive and about gaining freedom but ask any Celtic fan about the troubles in Northern Ireland and they'll give you a play by play.

Do you see anybody denying this? Even though it is not strictly true we realise there was a problem...That problem no longer exists. It hasn't existed for over 20 years!

Fair enough .How did Celtic bring religion into football?

Huge differece between religion and what we mean by sectarianism, unfortunetly you are not the only one not to see this and being Catholic (which meant Irish) was seen as provocative and suspect, we live with that discrimination to this very day

Three things.

In what way did being catholic mean irish?

Who is "we"?

How exactly do "we", whoever "we" are, live with this discrimination (whatever discrmination this is alleged to be)?

Have you been on the ale?

Are you now re-inventing yourself as an Irish Catholic?

What discrimination are you on about? Because you can no longer refer to Protestants as **** on a football forum you are being descriminated against?

Wrong again!!!

IMO Mr Murray is not deflecting anything. His comments over the last few weeks has shown this as he has been highly critical of some Rangers fans. All he is doing is showing that other clubs have sectarian problems.

It is very Ironic that the Dundee chairman uses a report which talks of 2 clubs, who ok now don't have a sectarian problem, but have had one throughout their history. A club who was founded by a member of the OO, and hence the club had strong OO connections up until recently, and the other was founded by Catholics, and has a chapel in the corner of its ground.

Bad choice of clubs methinks.

It is quite funny though he is attacking DUFC and DFC, a real chairman would be hitting these snaps at the Celtic board. They are quite happy to do it to us, why not question things sung at Parkhead? or their traveling support? Their banners glorifying the same thing the songs do, and why should they play a song about the Potatoe Famine over there PA system, and then get out-raged when Rangers fans slag them for it?

Murray shouldn't be bothering with the diddy sides, but launching scathing attacks on Celtic FC, as their chairman seems happy enough to do it to Rangers.

Murray again shows how spineless he is in dealing with things about Celtic FC, he should have persued the thrower of the lighter at Ricksen, the object at Novo recently to the fullest until they found the culprits and banned them from the Cesspit, and ensuring the safety of the Rangers employees on a visit to that Stadium, the game we won the title there is another one, where the GFITW ran to the tunnel to throw things at the players and abuse them and forced them to run up the tunnel ASAP to get away from them.

Murray should be attacking that club, not the two in Dundee.

How can anyone tell this man to hang his head in shame...a man who has done loads to rid our club of sectarianism over the last 20 years.

Because as a chairman, he has let down our fans on a number of occasions. Unless it is going to hurt him, he really doesn't give a f*ck.

We need a chairman who will defend our club, he doesn't do that, a real chairman would be doing what I said above. Attacking the other side of Glasgow for all the things wrong with them, the way that c*nt Reid is.

The fans throwing objects, the IRA chants, the dodgy banners tied in with the previous. Are just a few off the top of my head.

Rangers, I believe are the only Scottish Club to have had an unwitten policy of never signing Roman Catholics. So that reference albeit historical is a fact which was referred to by Graeme Souness in his book.

Are you suggesting that DUFC and DFC both indulge in sectarianism? I hope you have proof.

Its hard to defend our club when many fans still link themselves to N Ireland and sing songs linked to sectarianism. You don't defend just for the sake of it, it needs to be for the right reasons.

We have alot of fans coming over from N Ireland to support Rangers, so should they be told to "f*ck off, your not wanted" ?

Name a song which we sing "linked to sectarianism" and what is wrong with us linking to N Ireland, where we have a large fan base?

the 'sash', 'No Surrender' etc. many fans from Scotland take the red hand of ulster with them to games and have never set foot in N Ireland.

We have many fans from America and Australia but I don't see loads of their flags waving around the ground. Most of our fans are from scotland but you still see more ulster flags.

From the interview, David Murray himself did not actually use the word "sectarian" when referring to Dundee (United) fans.

Utd don't have a problem with sectarianism tbh. As far as i'm aware neither do Dundee.

I appreciate that it's a cultural problem in parts of Scotland and that the OF can't always control that.

But trying to deflect criticism onto clubs who don't have a problem with sectarianism is pretty lame tbh and everybody and their auntie's dog can see through it.

0/10 Must try harder.

Who are we playing on Tuesday again? Fancy that.

"Murray said Dundee and Dundee United were examples of clubs whose fans trade sectarian abuse on websites which is never mentioned in the media."

Sorry but it appears that he did.

By the way, I accept that DM has made progress with getting to grips with this issue but this article does him and RFC no favours at all.

To be fair that's not a David Murray quote, it's a quote from the Scumograph or whatever paper ran the story.

What he actually said was that what Dundee and Utd fans post on websites is every bit as bad as what Rangers fans post on websites but because it's the east of Scotland nobody bothers their arse to report it. Which we all know is a preposterous attempt to deflect criticism from their own problem.

were there subtitles? i'd love you to enlighten me on our "songs"

The sash IS NOT sectarian, so don't give me the crap. You obviously know nothing about the song.

No Surrender is not sectarian either, go on tell me what is Sectarian about this?

Rangers fan? You're having a f*cking laugh.

You can't see the forest for the trees - since when does a club being founded by Catholics automatically make it sectarian in nature? Don't apply your Old Firm sectarian knuckle-dragging logic to the rest of us. You'll be telling us next that clubs founded by Muslims are terrorist in nature.

the sash isn't sectarian?idiot!

Of course the Sash isnt sectarian.

I'm not sure how accurate the joint statement from Dundee and Dundee United is.

The statement says:



The only words from Murray I could find were in The Times:



This doesn't say Dundee and DUFC have a sectarian problem (he may have said this but there are no actual quotes). My guess is he's saying that sectarianism is being singled out whereas other problems.....such as abuse between fans....is being ignored.

Hopefully he'll issue some clarification.

So all Irish are Catholics? All Catholics are Irish?

right on the button there.

murray never said that there was a ectarian problem in the 2 dundee clubs, all he said was that there are things on their fans websites which if it can from the west of scotland would be all over the papers etc

for all we know he could be referring to death threats etc

and he has a point about the REAL issues in scotland, we have one of the highest death rates from heart attacks, worst child poverty in europe, one of the highest drug usage figures in europe yet all the papers do is focus on sets of fans singing songs

put the real issues in the papers and dont give sectarianism the paper space and that will go a long way to eradicating it from our country

To be honest, the answers to a lot of these problems (binge drinking, binge eating, obesity etc) lie with Rangers and their fans.

.

Evidence, please.

It's always a sign that someone has already lost the argument when they start asking why politicians or the police or the media aren't tackling some other problem instead. The Countryside Alliance and the smoking lobby both trotted this tactic out in recent years. "Haven't the government got better things to do - schools and hospitals etc."

Flailingly desperate stuff.

As a hunt member and a smoker I'm offended.

Odd. I'd have thought most Mhanks would have started with, "As one of the hunted....."

Murray isn't having an argument over the Sectarian problem which used to exist within Ibrox. He tackled it head on and has made vast improvements on this score.

The fact this whole subject has been twisted into an attack on Rangers and Murray is just more proof that Rangers are being unfairly targeted. I quoted an article last week where an Irish Politician was actually speaking about the abuse McCarthy took from St Mirren supporters and at other Scottish grounds but when it was brought up in the Scottish Press it was made to look like an attack on Rangers...even though the original article was written BEFORE Rangers had played Hamilton Accies!!!

murray hasnt lost the arguement by bringing other subjects up, he's just pointing out that there are worse problems in scotland that deserve to be put on the front page to highlight them rather than songs sung at football grounds

look at the weekend papers, the front page of the sun on saturday had the story about the young boy from the x factor and how he was supposedly "forced" to sing the song

as much as that is a story it isnt front page story, surely the likes of soldiers coming home from afghanistan etc is a better option for front page

putting stories of sectarianism on front page is just giving the bigots the publicity they are wanting

Mr Murray has indeed made a c**t of himself.

He has lost the argument. The conduct of Rangers and their fans is indefensible, which is why he won't try. He attempts to shine the spotlight elsewhere.It's "but they're worse than us, by ra way" writ large.