I can't think of any other game where a seperate cup is involved, it's a bit like the Calcutta cup, odd.

Oh dear, were you even alive when he bailed on Leeds to go to Forest?

Cheers for quoting that post before he hastily deleted that post. Take those Leeds-tinted sunglasses off Rinky.

Was I born then! The man was scum and no distorted crap from anyone will change that.

I deleted it as I thought perhaps I was being very unfair to his family. I have no time for the man, and I look forward to the film of his time at Leeds when it comes out. The book showed Clough for what he was/is and many inside football agreed.

Clough was a one off. There were two problems with his time at Leeds.

One was that Peter Taylor didn't go with him.

The other was Leeds United itself.

Leeds' loss was Forest's gain. And for what it's worth he didn't bail on Leeds to go to Forest, amusing though that would have been.

Never saw the game but i was told that their was alot of drama in the dying minutes of the matches with 2 disallowed goals from Derby and a penalty miss from young Arsenal loan player Barazite.

Same ref that gave the goal that never was at Watford a few weeks ago. 2 goals near the end of the game for Derby that he never gave and in one case, he gave a penalty after they had scored!

Oh Dear.

As the game was a draw who won the trophy?

Derby.

Nobody "won" it. Much like the Ryder Cup though Derby get to retain it until next time as they were the existing holders.

Ultimately a draw was fair enough but Forest certainly dodged several bullets in the last two minutes. It was NEVER a penalty, dreadful decision that, but fortunate for Forest that he gave one because if he allows play to go on Derby scored and the penalty was ultimately saved!

Then the second "goal" was ruled out too, clearly for handball as Addison went up leading with his arm, but I don't think he actually touched it with his arm or hand so again very lucky there.

That said, Forest had a "goal" ruled out for offside in the first half that should have been given onside too.

spot on drifter, rinky's just having a, stupid as f**k moment again

You are aware that the majority of The Damned Utd is a work of fiction? ( even though it is an excellent read) The author didn't find Clough's diary in an old filing cabinet at Elland Rd!

The best book on Clough is "Provided you don't kiss me" by Nottingham journalist Duncan Hamilton.

Rubbish. The real book is the one called The Damned United, as it was the only one Clough couldn't control when he was alive. The Clough was great brigade can live in their own wee world, the reality was he wasn't.

'The Damned United' was a work of fiction, based on real characters. The author specifically made that clear in his interview with Melvin Bragg on the South Bank Show not that long ago.

The board at Elland Road decided to back their captain, against the manager, and the rest is Forest history. Get over it.

The only person living in their own wee world is you

"Provided You Don't Kiss Me" was also published after Clough's death. It is a warts and all account of Clough written by a journalist who had unprecedented access to the man for 20 years. Have you read it? I doubt you have

Clough - like us all - had many faults as a human being but the facts are he was one of the most interesting and entertaining managers the game has seen

Bollox. Clough was an arsehole and only an idiot with little knowledge of the man would say otherwise.

A thing which this thread has thrown up once again, is why so often people fail to differentiate between the Man and The Manager - Being a great aka successful manager does not mean someone is necessarily a great, or even a "nice" man.

Agreed, although I have never taken to the opinion he was a great manager, he was a bully and he needed his assistant more than anyone.

Maybe not but it was THE strangest appointment given Clough's opinion on Revie and Leeds' style of play.

Maybe he went there with the sole intent of destroying all that...certainly in the 6 weeks he was there he totally alienated the players and directors to the extent that they felt they had no other option.

He won the European Cup twice with a provincial side and might well have done it with two if Derby hadn't been ceated out of a semi-final in Italy.

He won the Football League twice with two different provincial clubs.

He quite clearly was a great manager whether you like it or not.

Very true.

And we've had a couple of managers in Berwick who've been really nice blokes (but, erm, useless managers). I'm sure Alex Ferguson (another of Rinky's obsessions) isn't the kind of guy I'd like to have a pint with, but he's a very succesful manager.

OK, you haven't read that book, so your opinion is ill-informed as usual. That's all you had to say.

Look Rinky Dinky, everyone knows that Clough could be an arsehole at times but that doesn't mean he wasn't an interesting or entertaining human being. Open your mind.

SD sums it up perfectly...



However I would add that a lot of great managers, especially of pre 1990's i.e pre Bosman, were and are bullies to one extent or another - Ferguson, Maclean x 2, McNeill, Souness, Wallace, MacDonald - There's 7 from one league, from one era - early - mid 80's - not all of them "great" managers by any means, but all of them revered at their respective clubs and not a "nice" man amongst them I'd bet, and all of them would fit the label "bully" to some degree - a few of them have even admitted as much.

As much as I hate Sir Allshite Ferguscum, I will admit he is probably the greatest football manager of all time. He is his own man and players and assistants have to adapt to his ways. Clough needed Taylor and it showed when Taylor quit the relationship. Clough was a media man, loved the glory and being on the telly, he was not a great football manager.

That is complete and utter shite.

You can like him or not like him as a man, it's not greatly important, but to be honest you lose all credibility when you try to pervade such a completely nonsense argument.

Incidentally, whilst Clough with Taylor was better than Clough without Taylor, he didn't exactly crash and burn when the partnership split. Taylor left his side in 1982. Clough's Forest went on to achieve a fair amount of success after that. They won the League Cup twice (when it was still a major tournament), finished runner up another once, were runners up in the FA Cup and continued to challenge above their perceived "level" in the top league. They also would have made the UEFA Cup Final had a corrupt Anderlecht side not bribed the referee in a semi final. When Clough eventually crashed and burned it was much more due to age and alcohol than the absence of Taylor.

Still peddling the anti-Clough shite because of what happened all those years ago.

lovely.

?, erm no.

HA HA HA.......Rinky. How many European Cups did Leeds win back to back? How many times have Leeds been to Wembley in the past 100 years? As many times as Brian Clough's Tricky Trees?
That's what I thought........Whatever you think of "Old Big Ed" he took less tha average players and rejects from other Clubs (Kenny Burns, Larry Lloyd, Frank Clark etc) and turned them into World beaters. He did not have cash like Sir Alex nor did he take over a successful team. Leeds are as bad as Forest now, however at least we have a history........

Also got cheated out of the Uefa cup semi final in 1984? v Anderlecht.

The guys a legend.

Recently read duncan williams book as well. Anyone wants a balanced view, suggest they do the same.

Dont forget unless the book has lots of crayon drawings the Leeds fans are not going to be able to understand it!

What other team would have a stand named after a lump of Butter?.....The Lurpack Stand I seem to recall hehehheehheee Or was it named after the leeds defence because it was so easy to cut through!

I remember Peter Shilton getting knocked out at Leeds and the ref not stopping the game and allowing Leeds to score while he was flat out.......typical Leeds tactic.

I cant think of anything else that leeds is famous for.........unlike Nottingham - Robin Hood & Sherwood Forest, Lace, Brian Clough and Nottingham Forest, Torvill & Dean, Trent Bridge, Raleigh Bikes....do you want me to go on......

Forest are very well known here in the States - I photograph Soccer games here and everyone knows the Forest crest - even Beckham came over when he saw the shirt as he was leaving the LA Galaxy field to say hello! Robbie Williams, another guy I do work for, has had long conversations about how great Cloughie was! Mention Leeds and you just hear the sound of Crickets chirping and tumble weed blowing accross the scene hehehhehehehe

OH WAIT - The Yorkshire Ripper is from Leeds.......says it all really! Leeds is full of knuckle draggers. The only way you can tell a Leeds Girl has had an o**asm is if she drops the Kebab she was holding!

After all these years they are STILL jealous of what Cloughie achieved at Forest otherwise they would not keep talking about it, would they?.

You cannot fault Cloughie for his Management - towards the end booze kicked in and yes he faded but he achieved more in 20 years than the likes of Leeds have had in their whole history.....you cant argue with that it's in the history books!!!!! Oh I forgot .......no crayon drawing history books which explains why the Leeds guys dont understand it.........

OOH...you were doing so well

The damned united was full of Shite. E.G the rant in the tunnel after the Juve game, totally misquoted. Brian Clough might have been a bit of an arse, but he was a great character and one of the best ever managers who will never again be matched.