Both winning

Dutch win 1-0

Iceland still 1 up at half time

Iceland just won

yes, shows you that all this media"must win" and no chance now" shite is pathetic .We've still got a decent chance

Scotland's best results of the campaign so far.

1.Holland 9pts
2.Scotland 4pts
3.Iceland 4pts
4.Macedonia 3pts
5.Norway 2pts

It ain't over till its over!!

Apart from the win in Iceland.

Surely it only goes to show how utterly dire a performance that was in Macedonia!!! It has also fucked my coupon!

two great results tonight.

Lets hope the media get behind Burley and get stuck right into this group now.

Boyd is still a tosspot though

Yes, and full credit to George.
Magnificent.

Playing a ridiculous formation and making comedy substitutions doesn't look so daft now huh?

even if we finish second in this group, with the way results are going (ie. everyone taking points off each other), theres a very high chance we will come last out of the 2nd placed teams.

It helps in terms of getting the 2nd place, which was likely anyway, but does nothing in terms claiming one of the 8 best runners up spots. I reckon a win in Norway or a cheeky draw against the Dutch might just see us through into the playoffs.


No it doesn't.

Probably about the best results we could have hoped for tonight and indeed for all the talk of how poor we've been to date (not entirely wrong either) we are still second though we will presumably get nowt in Amsterdam next up and drop off then. Still, it's in our own hands to get second. Wins over Macedonia and Iceland at home combined with picking up something in Norway or at home to Holland would probably see us there. It may not be enough for the top 8 second spots though. We might need points in both those games to do that but at least we should probably know where we stand before that last home game v Holland if it comes down to that.

Macedonia were beaten by Iceland FFS!!

Macedonia are a good side at home. Teams like being drawn at home for a reason, they're used to it. They prefer it. Macedonia are gash away from home (and outside England) so stick the three points next to our name, please.

We should have cruised second in this group, we'll now probably scrape into the playoffs as the 7th or 8th best runner up. I'm looking at the Irish Republic & Northern Ireland groups as the best chance of us sneaking in, both appear to have tight groups.

Yay Iceland

good point mate thats what i see happening

Yes, away from home.

Your point will be valid if Iceland go to Skopje and pick up anything. I'd be surprised if Norway got any more than a point there too.

As I keep saying, I think we need to finish second on 14 points to get ourself into the playoffs.

Why the pessimism?

(points difference, + Scotland up, - Scotland down)

Group 1
Hungary (-)
Portugal (+2)

Group 2
Israel (-1)
Switzerland (-3, played game more)

Group 3
Poland (-)
Slovakia (-2)
Slovenia (-3, played game more)
Czech Republic (-)

Group 4
Russia (-2)

Group 5
Turkey (-1)
Belguim (-)

Group 6
Croatia (-)
Ukraine (-3)

Group 7
Serbia (-2)
Lithuania (-2)
France (-)
Austria (+1)
Romania (-)

Group 8
Ireland (-3)
Bulgaria (+1)

Going through that lot, there's four or five groups worth keeping a look out on. Unfortunately, this depends heavily on us getting the results we'dve been looking for going into the group.

Scotland don't need to be as merciless as some expect for us to be good enough for 8th runner up, not even close. But who wants to go into the final game needing 3 points from a Dutch side turning up for an afternoon kick about?

I know the 8 best runners up get through but is there play offs after this, I'm confused by how to qualify

As far as I'm aware, these top 8 runners up go into 4 two-legged play off games and the 4 winners qualify for the World Cup.

That is correct.

Of course it's still possible! It ain't over till the maths says so.

Looking at the results I see a lot of 'big' teams have dropped points today as well, so its still more than possible that we will be in the top 8 of the 9 runners up.

Further to previous post, here is the table of 2nd placed teams as it stands (remember the game against the bottom placed team doesn't count except in our group) (pinched from url

Team Grp Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
Russia 4 3 2 0 1 6 3 +3 6
Lithuania 7 3 2 0 1 5 3 +2 6
Israel 2 3 1 2 0 6 4 +2 5
Turkey 5 3 1 2 0 3 2 +1 5
Hungary 1 3 1 1 1 3 2 +1 4
Republic of Ireland 8 2 1 1 0 2 1 +1 4
Poland 3 3 1 1 1 4 4 0 4
Croatia 6 3 1 1 1 4 4 0 4
Scotland 9 3 1 1 1 2 2 0 4



By the looks of that, it would be simply bizarre to say we are out of it, but there is a lot of work for us to do, to even get to the playoffs. Suppose the groups stay as they are which is obviously unlikely, there would be some tricky ties like Turkey, Russia and Croatia in the play offs

has it actually been confirmed whether the playoffs are seeded? If not, we'll take lithuania thank you very much!!

Great results for Scotland. We're still going to have little room for error in the games against the teams other than Holland, but if we can achieve that we still have a great chance to make the play-offs.

I suppose the only "negative" might be that Holland are now a stick-on to win the group. We probably all thought that already, but it's hard to see them slipping up now. Having said that, it could prove to be a good thing as when they come to Hampden they might have nothing to play for by that time which would only help our chances of a result in that game.

Clearly our chances of getting second spot are enhanced by these results, but it still requires us to turn in some victories. Even then, the obvious question about whether we'll have enough points would remain.
Even then, we've lost both our recent attempts at play-offs - one unluckily, one laughably.

What these results really do is prove what a strong position we might have been in with even half decent performances. We could quite conceivably have been up there alongside or near the Dutch, having burned the rest off already, with a play-off the least we could hope for.
Someone will claim the other three could say the same, but the fact is we do have better players than Iceland and Macedonia and should be looking to beat Norway at home.
This is a weak group and yet we're struggling.
Reminiscent of the stuttering nonsense under Berti that scraped us into the tie with the Dutch.

I agree, the results from last night got us off the hook after Saturdays draw with Norway.

The results to date just realistically confirms that we were playing for 2nd place which will give us a play-off. Holland should now go on and win the group.

No more slip ups, beat Iceland, Macedonia and hopefully a win against Holland at home a win in Norway and the game in Holland takes care of itself. That should be enough to see us finish at least 2nd!!

Yeah that's all.
Can't see any problem in achieving all of that, given our recent form.

How are the 2nd place/playoff spots decided, considering we are the only country that is in a group of 5 rather than 6 and therefore play 2 games less than anyone else, hence a possible 6 points less?

in the other eight groups the games against the bottom team don't count.

I reckon we will finish with 12 points. Beat Iceland and Macedonia at home at get a point from the Dutch and away to the Norwegians. That'll make it damn close for the play-off. I think the Dutch will play a weakened side against us at Hampden but it'll still be a struggle to get anything.

You clearly know nothing about football, or anything else for that matter.

Aye, because those predictions are so far fetched

I must say, i'm a little more confident than i was on Saturday about making the play-offs. It's not ideal that we still have to play Holland twice though, as that table doesn't indicate whether any of those sides have played the top seeds in their group yet. It still going to take us probably 3 wins and a draw to give us a fighting chance.

Iceland and Macedonia we should be able to beat at Hampden, and there's no reason why we can't win in Oslo. We'll definitely have to take at least 1 point from the Dutch, and we might have a better than normal chance against them at Hampden on the last day. If we go into that game against an already qualified Dutch, we might even win that game.

Maybe the dream isn't over yet, last night has certainly helped.

Last night certainly gave us a bit of hope but I don't want to rely on Iceland, Holland etc to get 2nd place in a group.
I backed Burely's appointment but our group is one of the kindest we've been drawn in a few years, (Ok Berti's group was with GER,LIT,FAROES,ICE) but this side had been coming into a bit of form under the McLeish-Smith coaches we had before and that form seems to have fizzled out under Burley.

I know we are not the greatest side in the world and a lot of the time under McLeish we had a bit o' luck e.g Georgia at home, both France games but against Ukraine at home we were magnificent and one of the best games to actually watch Scotland play in.

I'm giving Burley a chance and don't believe in booing or even slagging him off becuase the SFA will not sack him unless we lose our next 4 games and end up bottom but we lack a lot of confidence, we don't look like scoring for years and the manager seems to make rash decisions. ''I'll call up Iwelumo because he's played 6games this season 8goals" He wasn't anywhere near the squad 4weeks ago, I'm all for players on form getting called up and such but you could say the same about McCormack he's scored a few goals this season, runs his heart out and is 22 years old. Not that Iwelumo's age should come into it but what happens now if Iwelumo falls away for Wolves and scores 10 goals by March, does he drop him for the qualifiers v Holland-Iceland next year?

He should tamper about with the side in Friendlies e.g bring on Iwelumo and Fletcher v N.I or Argentina, not when it's 0-0 in a qualifier at home against a side who are around the similar level of ourselves, It was a gamble and yes if that miss went in, it would have paid off and Iwelumo would be the new hero but it didn't, like most outside bets don't

The good thing from our point of view is that the group is now wide open, It really looks like every team will beat each other E.g We beat Iceland, Iceland beat Macedonia, Macedonia beat us. We need to start winning! Second place isn't guarnteed a playoff.

Still months to go til the next qualifier but Burley and the squad have been given a get out of jail card last night with the results.

We might finish 2nd but i cant see us getting into the play-offs

Looking at it realistically, most of those teams are just as gash as us.

correct, most teams are 3 or 4 points ahead of us

Incorrect, no one is three or four points ahead of us, as you'dve seen if you'd looked at ScaryBear's table. There is not one team in that nine that will have a flawless run to the end of the qualifiers, let alone eight. Three points from Iceland next April and we're still bang on track.

We better hope that all the rangers players pull out of that squad after the last time they were there

a bit off the subject, but hope i suppose, does anyone know what stage hutton is at ? i.e. will he get a run out against Argentina? Lookst at this rate ferguson will be back in the team, we need they guys back, i reckon they could have been the difference between a point in macedonia and 3 against norway

I dont agree with 'tampering' with the team in any friendlies, i say go for the strongest 11 and roughly play how we intend to against holland, tampering was the berti way, and i was in wales for the 4-0 drubbing...

we want to be a strong national side that barely loses wether its a friendly or not, confidence wise, a result against argentina would help the nation, the team and the manager

i think it is better to look at friendlies as qualifiers which you have nothing to fight for in (if you understand that) and you should play strong squads so you know what is best to play.