The old thread, the main purpose of which was to disparage Darren Fletcher because of his poor performances for Scotland, has slipped down the pages and so I've created this thread so that the tradition may survive.

Lest we forget, he was rubbish.

the boy talks like a queen, never a good sign...

He's still the best player we have, poor form or not.

yep.

Best midfielder Scotland have apparently

He is. what's funny about that?

In that he can string three sentences together without saying "defin-aaately", "we're" instead of "our" or "at the end of the day"?

Fletcher was alright. Scotland were alright. They just missed a sitter.

He's a waste of space. Totally overrated because he turns up to friendles which mean the square root of fuck all. He might look good alongside Tevez, Ronaldo, and Berbatov, but so would Paul Hartley.

Got given the captains armband and you wouldn't even have known he was playing for the majority of the game. As I've said before, his mother must be owed a favour by Sir Alex as he is so mediocre it hurts.

http://www.redcafe.net/f6/no-more-fletcher-posts-221328/

people who watch him week in week out's opinion >>>>> Your opinion tbf.

Hes like your English players who look good playing for the top sides only because they have Class around them , Brown , Robson and Ferguson are better Central Midfielders than him.

I'll have some of whatever you are smoking.

Why does he play for a team like man united then?
He plays for a class side because he, himself, is class.

Would you want Sir Alex to be the next Scotland manager?

If the answer is yes then expect to see DF playing because Sir Alex rates him and I reckon he knows a bit about the game.

Simple fact is Sir Alex could go out and sign another player if he felt he could get someone better than Fletch - but he's chosen to keep him at Old Trafford and work on a new contract.

Could it be that Darren is being made to look poor thanks to the crap round about him or the tactics employed, or the role he's been asked to play?

I see your point , maybe it is because he tries to be the star man to often for Scotland and when he is at United he just does the simple thing.

I think it is more that people expect him to be the star man for Scotland when at United he just, as you say, does the simple thing. So when he just does the simple thing for Scotland, people get on his back for not being the star man.

Watch him week in week out? How often does he even play for Man Utd?

Darren '999' Fletcher, phone in case of an extreme emergecny.

Suppose , its a lose lose situation.

he has played over thirty games in four of the last five seasons and has already played eight games this season. considering he is only 24 that really isn't bad going. You don't really have a clue what you are talking about do you?

He's also had 40 Scotland caps, how many good performances can you remember?

What's worse is he was made captain at home against a pish poor Norway team, and he was a passenger for the whole game. Hopeless, yet he is praised for being the 'best Scottish player' and about 9th choice at Man Utd.

In just about every significant game they have.

You're an idiot. If you're going to slaughter the boy, at least get your facts straight.

For Man U, Fletcher has a box-to-box role breaking up attacks at one end, doing the simple collect-and-give stuff in the middle of the park and increasingly bombing into the box to support the strikers.

For Scotland, he's expected to be the second coming of Puskas, single-handedly controlling every game, putting in about 20 slide-rule defence splitting passes per match and scoring goals for fun.

Note to unrealistic bawbags everywhere - he is not, repeat not, Lionel Messi.

There is no doubt that 'on his day' Fletcher is more than good enough to play for Scotland. Also, you cannot fault the guys desire to play for his country.

However, I cannot remember the last time he played well in the blue jersey. His preformances over the past two years for Scotland have been mediocre at best, and yet again this weekend he proved to be about as useful as Gary Holt.

What was most frustrating at the weekend was not the hospital balls or the 40 yard passes straight to a red shirt, but the shirking out of 50/50 challenges on about 5 separate occasions.

Must do better....

He has been absolutely terrible in a Scotland jersey for over a year now! I said after the Italy match last year that he had become untouchable in the Scotland set up, in that he was always going to be picked and never taken off regardless of how badly he was playing. This is still the case now. As far as Scotland is concerned he is basically living off the goal he scored against Lithuania at Hampden 5 years ago that got us into the play offs.

Is it me or does anyone else think that the reaction to this result is way over the top?Scotland were only realisticly going for second place when the draw was made and they still are in a good enouigh position to achieve this.

You dont get games palying for Man Utd if you are not quality.I think the stature of club football makes it difficult for players to be motivated to play for Scotland.It appears to be a chore for some of them that and Burley's lack of passion cant hep.One day you are playing with Ronaldo and getting teamtalks from the Fergie the next you are listening to Burley and palying alongside championship level players.

Box to box? The guy couldn't tackle a fish supper, where was he against Norway as they rampaged through on goal 17 times? No-fucking-where, and he's the captain!

Nobody is asking him to be Puskas, just to actually turn up for the national team once in 40 games.

how people can seriously say he's class is beyond me. who gives a flying f**k if he's good for man utd (he isn't really tbh) he's a passenger for scotland who looks scared to tackle or get involved in any way at all.

you can say he's our best player all you want but you would be a liar if you said he's been good for scotland. on that basis he shouldn't start every game. saying we should start someone just because 'they're our best player' shows how stupid you are.

Darren Fletcher is a great player on his game no doubt about it but the last 3 competitive matches Scotland have played he's been non-existant............ not the Darren Fletcher we all know!!

Lets hope he gets his finger out soon, Scott Brown has been there best midfielder so far for work rate and desire to win.

Nope, I think you are right. The only problem now really is that our points total might leave us the odd man out even if we do finish second.

This is a really easy group to be honest.

I would not be suprised if more players turn the screw and refuse to play under Burley before the next international.I think the Media want him out of a job for some reason.If Scotalnd get a result in Norway which is very possible they are still on track to finish second which was the goal at the start.

Second place doesn't guarantee a play off spot though, 9 groups, 8 places, and 5 points dropped out of the proposed 7 we could drop, and we still have to play the 3 hardest games. So in what way is all this 'over the top'?

As for playing for Man Utd = quality, there are enough duds over the years to debunk that myth, a big hello to Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, and Liam Miller.

You seem to be working on this assumption that second place = automatic play off spot. They can realistically afford to drop 2 more points, which means a result of some sort in Holland.

Based on Norway hitting 17 shots to our 8, do you see a win in Amsterdam for Scotland? I don't.

There's a reason why Fletcher is getting so much criticism from so many quarters...namely, he has been awful far more often than he's been effective for Scotland. One good match against Holland doesn't make you a worldbeater. At Manchester United he's there as a ballwinner, keeping things simple. Much more (often unrealistically) is expected of him when he pulls on a Scotland shirt. That he doesn't live up to that is one thing. That he falls so spectacularly short is quite another.

I kow that Second place does not guarantee a play off spot Scotland will be destined to just lose out on a play off place.
On a positive note this thread demonstartes at least there is not just one person being scapegoated for Saturday's result.

Yes, this was always going to be a tough campaign, because we overachieved last time, on the back mainly of those two wins over a declining French side.

If we finished second, even were that to be with not enough points to get a PO place, I think that would still be a decent result.

Fletcher is a good player, but many people seem to expect far too much from him. He isn't the type of player that can dictate play like some seem to think he is. We miss Ferguson in midfield, our midfield has been an utter shambles under Burley.

Aye, you're right - that's me convinced. Fletcher should be dropped for the good of the team. That ought to sort things out. Maybe we can play Kris Commons instead eh? Or someone else from the production line of top Scottish midfielders just waiting in the wings.

"...rampaged through on goal 17 times"? Interesting use of the word 'rampaged' there. You don't write for the Record by any chance? Anyway, I'm off to rampage into the kitchen for a cup of tea now.

he is a good player, but its not his game to lead a team, some people expect him to lead the team, thats not him

This game will begin to resemble the Alamo if any more Burley haters get in on the act.

And how long exactly did they last in the team? I don't particularly like him but if Ferguson didn't rate Fletcher he'd have shipped him out by now... and I don't think you can accuse Sir Alex of being someone who keeps under performing players in the side.

Darren Fletcher couldn't really be subbed at half time due to him being the captain, and he should have been, he was awful and has been for a long time for Scotland.

As for Carew, did you watch him brush off Caldwell and Weir? The guy was like a rat up a drainpipe. And the last time I saw something being swatted away so easily I was watching King Kong on top of the Empire State Building.

we miss Barry Ferguson in the midfield

I thught he played okay on Saturday,but one thing he does is give 110% , he covered every balde of grass on saturday, unlike others around him who turn it on as and when it suits them! (Brown and Maloney to name but 2). Has it ever occured that Fletcher is used to playing with a bit of quality around him and is not used to shouldering and carrying a midfield?

The boy looks malnourished. Give him a plate of soup.

Where does this mythical "7 points we could drop" come from? Chances are the second placed teams in other groups are going to drop a lot more than 7 points.

And the 3 guys you mentioned left Man Utd not long after signing, and certainly didn't ever play as regularly as Fletcher does now.






What are you talking about? Norway had 142% possession and spent 90 minutes in our 6 yard box.







How anyone can criticise Brown for not giving 100% is beyond me, especially after his performance on Saturday.

Has he got Norwegian nationality now?

Personally i've never rated Fletcher, never seen him have a good game for Scotland either.

Too true.

Brown does well inspite of being played out of position for new club and country. Ask any Hibs fan, he's a(n) (brilliant) attacking midfielder. Not a holding midfielder - no matter how effective in that role.

He could be the new Souness in the middle of the park - not the new Neil Lennon as is turning out to be.

See when I watch Fletcher and McFadden, I feel sorry for the kids who don't remember Souness & Dalglish. Those were real good players unlike our current "superstars."

Fletcher needs to move away from his comfort zone and play regular football if he is ever going to reach his potential. Playing one game in four at United is not the preparation he needs when he is playing for his country. He reminds me of a student feart to live home and live in the big bad world.

I'd go and check your calculator if I was you.

He's played 8 games out of 11 for Man Utd this season.

Last season he played 25 out of 45 for which he was available (he had 2 separate injuries, both picked up playing for Scotland)

In 2006/07, he played 40 games out of 54 for which he was available.