So, again, we face an almost impossible struggle to try and get a play-off place in major qualification.

And, again, people slate the manager; the tactics; the missed chances; players poor performances.


Does anyone think that maybe we should start to think we just aren't good enough any more?

That we are not the side we were 40 years ago? Most other nations that haven't qualified for a finals for over a decade, would draw that conclusion. Shouldn't we be realistic - we're no longer a Holland, a Denmark or a Bulgaria. Don't results suggest we're more of an Austria, a Finland, or a Wales?

Looking forward, when will things get better? Are we facing a future like Belgium or Hungary, where past glories somehow sustain dreams of future success? What's going to change things for the better.

We shouldn't be good enough, but we CAN fight above our weight. We have proven this. I do think the manager has a lot to answer for today, but I reckon that he needs to be given longer to make his mistakes and see what's working and what's not.

Gary Caldwell is not good enough and it's like playing wae 10 men when he's on the park!

I think we can, and if either smith or eck had stayed we would have 9 points.

Weir's too old and slow as well.

If we can get rid of that hun pish IE

Hutton > Broadfoot
Mcmanus > Weir

Good back 4 that.

Unfair on Broadfoot, as he has been one of the good points of Scotland recently.

Is this the same Hutton who played for the huns? Anyway i thought Broadfoot had a solid game and was one of the better Scotland players.

Have you know hit the darts board yet dhimster or are you on a promise fae Son o Frankenstein!

I agree wae that. Time for Davie tae hang up the Scotland jersey I think!!

What you on here for anyway, shouldn't you be at the pub watching england ?

I think we are good enough to get in the play offs for this group.

Why, when I'm Scottish through and through. Can you say the same?

Sadly I don't. Even if we finish 2nd, we've dropped so many points we could be the 'unlucky loser'...

i agree but

we should have been good enough today but were let down by shite tactics.

Can't agree. Norway were crap today (except Carew who looked very good and if he had good support may have scored) and we should have easily beaten them. We were poor going forward but despite that we had plenty of chances. Morrison was awful and how Boyd doesn't get a game is beyond me. The man is the McCoist of this generation. His record for Killie, Rangers and Scotland speaks for itself.

Scotland hold no fear to any international team anymore, they had a brief spell of success under Smith & Mcleish, but the norm has returned. Sadly the standard of football in Scotland is at best average, with one or two players who have the ability to change matches.
It's the same in Ireland, we are using players from the Eircom League, which is no better than the 1st Division in Scotland, yet we appear to be a better team than we were under the little ginger twat now at Leeds!
Get used to not being at finals, get used to winning freak games like v France (both times) but when it really matters, Scotland will always be glorious failures.
No dig intended, I'm a proud Irishman who has lived and worked in Scotland for over 30 years, my kids are Scottish and I'm a Scotland fan, so I would love to be proved wrong.

Possibly, probably not. I'm still confident we can finish second, Norway and Macedonia are not better teams than us.



We'll get to Euros 2016, with the new format it would be hard not to.

Yes, if only we could become a Bulgaria again.

(And I do know they had a decent campaign in '94)

well Bulgaria has done a hell of a lot more than we have. As well as qualifying for World Cup '94 and '98 (the former of which they reached the Semis), they also got to Euro 2004, while we didn't.

Macedonia 1- Scotland 0
Scotland 0-Norway 0
These results suggests WE are not better than Macedonia or Norway

As long as Berti Burley is still not in charge we should qualify for 2016 as long as we don't draw a half decent team in qualification

I know the results of the games, I still think we are better than these teams though.

I've said it since Macedonia, we are not better than these teams at all. We are around the same level and people got far too carried away with our excellent campaign last year.
France could have humped us at Hampden, they hit the post, scored 2 goals but we duck in and got a good result, apart from our matches against Lithuania, Ukraine and second half of Italy at home. We haven't been that great at all.

our first touch, movement and passing the ball is really quite poor, I'd say that as a British standard in general. For periods of England's game today, the Kazhak's pushed at them and looked skillful, fresh and good on the ball. In the end the experience, slackness and carelessness cost them the heavy defeat. If it was a 5 a side game over an hour, It would have been very close.

The group is still there, although we've given ourselves a tough route to make it to the playoffs. Norway seem to be shíte at home which is possibly in our favour and we've won before in Oslo so we have that, Holland anything from these 2 games is a bonus and then we need to beat Macedonia and Iceland at home which can be done but we are realying on teams to slip up a bit now, I think a lot of draws would be good for the group. If Iceland-Macedonia and Norway-Holland all take a point each on Wed night, That's probably a good thing for us.

Overall just disappointed with that today, surely after 10mins Burley and co could see that McFadden up on his own was not going to work against 6foot odd defenders and the subbies, Iwelumo-unlucky to him with his miss but why throw a 30 year old journeyman in a game that we really really NEEDED to win when we've got Boyd on the bench who has scored 4 goals in 4 games for Scotland at Hampden. To be honest, we were probably lucky to get a draw! If wasn't for Gordon who had a few good saves and sloppy finishing from Carew and Iversen, they'd have won that game.

We had a good run last year and we've got a manager who seems to very 'aff the cuff' with his decision making, next up a friendly where we've got Argentina and to be honest if we lose by 2goals is probably an achievement, sorry for the negativity but today that certainly wasn't a team that looked liked it could grace the stages of the World Cup.

That was the football equivalent of divine intervention today. An unseen force decided that we are not destined to be there.

Lets scrap the rest of the games and take up volleyball.

It's easy to have scapegoats but we no longer have the quality we used to.Look at the centre - backs .We used to have a choice - Mcleish,Miller;Hegarty,Narey + Hansen.Now we have Caldwell and a near 40year old [Credit to him for helping out].I can't think of anyone else available who should be in the squad.If we can't even produce basic defenders it is a really poor show.The neglect by the SFA and the limitations of the Premier League have come home to roost.

It's true that Scotland aren't particularly good, but having watched most of the matches in Euro 2008 I think we match up to a few of those countries. I don't see why we can't qualify for this tournament, and a reasonable proportion of tournaments in the future.

its true, scotland suck(ed). i want my ticket money back.

This thread is pathetic and its the way alot of Scotland fans are , high as a kite when we wn and low as a submarine in the bottom of the fukkin pacific when we dont win , we got beat by Macedonia and at the time i thought were shite heat doesnt play apart , but i went to Florida a few weeks back and one day it was 32 degrees and i went outside and got burnt like f**k ( ps im not ginger) and could barely walk because of the heat , so if there playing in 40 then f**k knows how they managed .

We got a decent win in Iceland and we could have easily won today , give them credit that they had a few good breakaways but if Iwelumo stuck that in the bak of the net it would be a completely different story , the fight for 2nd is nowere near out of our reach infact were still in the strongest position after holland presumably beat norway on wednesday night , so get behind the team and everyone stop being moany fuckers ffs.

but the point is, he never.

Boyd probably would have.

We are 100% beind the team when it takes the field but the point is, if Burley continues picking this s*** teams, we will not qualify.

There's absolutely no doubt that we are rubbish. We don't have any class players at all. Having said that, the manager still has to try and get the best out of the players he has available, and in my opinion Burley hasn't got a clue and therefore we will never overachieve. We will only underachieve with him in charge.

The only thing that will change the standard of the game in this country is if we plough money into the game at kids level like never before. We need to make the facilities and the coaching second to none. We need to get all kids playing for fun first of all and if they are good then they need to be coached properly.

And all of this needs to be done independently of the clubs. The club system has ensured that we fell miles behind. This should be done area by area. All sports should be included in this not just football.

The trouble is that it will cost a fortune. And I doubt any politician will seriously go for it. So until then we will just have to see what the clubs can come up with or if the SFA will try and pump proper money into the grassroots of the game. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Simply put we were fucking awful yesterday. The first half was like watching Morton. Burley is a fucking idiot. We have only one proper striker in this country and he doesn't even get on as a sub! People might think he's a lazy b*****d but when it come's to scoring then it's not hard to work out who should be on the park.