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mcfadden78
Not a brilliant result for Scotland today, seeing as it was a home match but perhaps good in a variety of reasons that Carew was on a real threat today.

I for one, cannot believe the negativity that is now steaming out of this nation. 12 months ago there was a real good factor around the nation that we were not gonna get beat. Having defeated the mighty french home and away, as well as a great 3-1 win over Ukraine, the mood was superb.

Now we find ourselves considering our future after 4 points from three. Its easy to criticise but why is there so much doom and gloom??

Does anyone think Burley has taken the National team down? Personally i feel he is trying to inherit too much of his own managerial tactics into the team from his career. His body language and messages do not inspire. His tactical decisions baffle some people. Its a case of "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Thats what Burley has done.

We can still qualify though but we will need to get results away from home as well as beating Holland.

I am a sports journalist and the media in scotland are shite with the hype. It ruins the National team.

Discuss your views here...
pub car king
for me the personnel and tactics wer wrong we started with two wingers to whip the ball into the box and who do we have waiting in the box a big burly centre forward who powers through the box ho no we have mcfadden a very creative player getting marked out the game with 2 centre backs. so things change at the re start more of a 442 mcfadden is coming into the game holding the line running at folk much better robson is starting to make progress on the right. so he changes the personnel to those that would have been better suited to the first half a big strong centre half for morrison and fletcher on and our biggest goal threat goes off with 35 mins left. and then chasing a win he still leaves boyd on the bench.
YER SISTERS YER MAW
QUOTE (mcfadden78 @ Oct 11 2008, 17:38) *
Not a brilliant result for Scotland today, seeing as it was a home match but perhaps good in a variety of reasons that Carew was on a real threat today.

I for one, cannot believe the negativity that is now steaming out of this nation. 12 months ago there was a real good factor around the nation that we were not gonna get beat. Having defeated the mighty french home and away, as well as a great 3-1 win over Ukraine, the mood was superb.

Now we find ourselves considering our future after 4 points from three. Its easy to criticise but why is there so much doom and gloom??

Does anyone think Burley has taken the National team down? Personally i feel he is trying to inherit too much of his own managerial tactics into the team from his career. His body language and messages do not inspire. His tactical decisions baffle some people. Its a case of "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Thats what Burley has done.

We can still qualify though but we will need to get results away from home as well as beating Holland.

I am a sports journalist and the media in scotland are shite with the hype. It ruins the National team.

Discuss your views here...



How many Burley must go threads do we need?
DomDom
We have a smaller group than others, meaning that we have a less chance to make up the ground. That has something to do with the negativity. Hampden has become something of a fortress, but we can't even beat Norway there anymore. That also has something to do with it.

At home against sides like this last season, we were attacking and being adventurous. It got us results. What happened today ?

I'm thinking straight and I realise that Burley has a pretty damn hard task, but he made some critical errors today.
Haitch
Scotland - top of the leaue. No complaints here.
HibeeJibee
Problem is, Burley has no time or games to change things. Here is the schedule from now to the end:

Argentina (H) (friendly), ?? (February slot, but are any decent nations un-taken?), Netherlands (A), Iceland (H), possible June friendly but many withdrawals guaranteed, Norway (A), Macedonia (H), Netherlands (H). He can do nothing tactics-wise v Argentina, leaving him with nothing else...
DomDom
I'd take a humping from Argentina if it meant trying a new tactic that never worked.
alternative maryhill
QUOTE (mcfadden78 @ Oct 11 2008, 17:38) *
Not a brilliant result for Scotland today, seeing as it was a home match but perhaps good in a variety of reasons that Carew was on a real threat today.

I for one, cannot believe the negativity that is now steaming out of this nation. 12 months ago there was a real good factor around the nation that we were not gonna get beat. Having defeated the mighty french home and away, as well as a great 3-1 win over Ukraine, the mood was superb.

Now we find ourselves considering our future after 4 points from three. Its easy to criticise but why is there so much doom and gloom??

Does anyone think Burley has taken the National team down? Personally i feel he is trying to inherit too much of his own managerial tactics into the team from his career. His body language and messages do not inspire. His tactical decisions baffle some people. Its a case of "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Thats what Burley has done.

We can still qualify though but we will need to get results away from home as well as beating Holland.

I am a sports journalist and the media in scotland are shite with the hype. It ruins the National team.

Discuss your views here...


As a sports journalist, do you not feel that Burley has fallen into the same trap that England and Scotland managers have done too often recently; namely that because midfield is the strongest area either has to select from, the managers end up overloading the midfield because they see certain players as "indispensable"? Clearly Burley sees Fletcher and McFadden as indispensable, so we end up with McFadden as a lone striker against two six footers and Fletcher apparently unsure what position he should be holding (can't play wide because he doesn't have the pace; can't play deep because he can't time a tackle). In Ferguson's absence, competition for the deep central role was between Brown and Hartley, and Brown justified his selection today. The advanced central role, therefore, was between Robson and Fletcher, and Robson was definitely the more effective today. That, in my eyes, makes Fletcher redundant - and I don't think he's a bad player, just someone who doesn't justify being first choice in the Scotland midfield at the moment.

On top of that, Burley finds a place for James Morrison, who did nothing at all in the game, at the expense of a second striker. Morrison had no place in that team - Burley could have put Maloney wide right and McFadden wide left and chosen two strikers out of Boyd, Iwelumo and Steven Fletcher, or, if he wanted to retain Darren Fletcher in the team, could have played Robson and Maloney as the wide men with McFadden off a more out-and-out striker.

Regardless of what line-up or formation you favour, it's hard to argue against the claim that Burley made mistakes by playing McFadden as a lone striker and by picking Morrison in the first place. Credit to him for making changes fairly early, but ultimately, he still wasted an hour by playing the wrong team in the first place.

As for whether he should stay... I don't think we're going to qualify, but I see no point in changing the manager at the moment, as I can't see anyone available who would do a better job. A Scottish coach would be more likely than an overseas coach to be famliar with the small resources the national team has available to it, and of the Scottish coaches currently working, only Strachan and Moyes are obviously better qualified than Burley and neither would want the job.
Shibuya
Totally agree with the above. We got away with Faddy up top against Iceland but today he just was not in the game and Maloney is the most frustating player i've ever seen. In saying that he was a million times better than Morrison who is useless for club and country.

We lack a bit of dynamism without Hutton as well, we'll be a better team with him and Ferguson back in for the Holland game.
1320Lichtie
QUOTE (Shibuya @ Oct 11 2008, 21:02) *
Totally agree with the above. We got away with Faddy up top against Iceland but today he just was not in the game and Maloney is the most frustating player i've ever seen. In saying that he was a million times better than Morrison who is useless for club and country.

We lack a bit of dynamism without Hutton as well, we'll be a better team with him and Ferguson back in for the Holland game.



Disagree Morrison is a starter every week for a decent premiership team and Mowbray highlights him as one of THE best players in his team , plus hes only 22 , agree he wasnt upto much today maybe because for club he plays central midfield and not wide right but then again fletcher is a man u player so we cant drop him , Morrison is a great wee player if played correctly.
S. Carter
The problems started way back when he didn't start Boyd and McFadden today, he should have
End of story
Either McFadden or Boyd would have scored that! It is as simple as that
1320Lichtie
QUOTE (Mr. Brightside @ Oct 12 2008, 02:32) *
The problems started way back when he didn't start Boyd and McFadden today, he should have
End of story
Either McFadden or Boyd would have scored that! It is as simple as that



Wouldnt say that , I know Boyd is proven but Iwelumo has 8 goals in 6 games for Wolves this season in the championship which IMO is quite a bit better tahn the SPL and supposedly in the top ten leagues in the world , on another day Iwelumo or any scottish player including Gordon would have scored that it was just a freak miss , but yeah i definetely agree he should have started a NATURAL striker today , instead of having a creator upfront with 2 creators behind him.
Reynard
QUOTE (1320Lichtie @ Oct 12 2008, 01:30) *
Disagree Morrison is a starter every week for a decent premiership team and Mowbray highlights him as one of THE best players in his team , plus hes only 22 , agree he wasnt upto much today maybe because for club he plays central midfield and not wide right but then again fletcher is a man u player so we cant drop him , Morrison is a great wee player if played correctly.



Morrison has no pace to play out wide. Not his fault he was stuck out there but I wouldn't have him anywhere near the midfield either. He is a squad filler and no more.

Burley simply chose the wrong team and employed the wrong tactics. That is entirely his fault. I don't think he is a good manager. In fact, I think he is a diabolical manager and I think both he and the idiotic Gordon Smith should keep well away from the set up. Smith chose the wrong manager for the job and he was scared to get in a manager that had a bigger ego than he does.
Bloobell
QUOTE (mcfadden78 @ Oct 11 2008, 17:38) *
Not a brilliant result for Scotland today, seeing as it was a home match but perhaps good in a variety of reasons that Carew was on a real threat today.

I for one, cannot believe the negativity that is now steaming out of this nation. 12 months ago there was a real good factor around the nation that we were not gonna get beat. Having defeated the mighty french home and away, as well as a great 3-1 win over Ukraine, the mood was superb.

Now we find ourselves considering our future after 4 points from three. Its easy to criticise but why is there so much doom and gloom??

Does anyone think Burley has taken the National team down? Personally i feel he is trying to inherit too much of his own managerial tactics into the team from his career. His body language and messages do not inspire. His tactical decisions baffle some people. Its a case of "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Thats what Burley has done.

We can still qualify though but we will need to get results away from home as well as beating Holland.

I am a sports journalist and the media in scotland are shite with the hype. It ruins the National team.

Discuss your views here...


Part of the previous euphoria was because Vogts had taken us so low we grasped any improvement with both hands - part of it was undoubtedly because Walter Smith and then Alex McLeish had us playing the committed game we Scots love so much

Decent results then ensued and the whole thing becomes self perpetuating

What I saw yesterday was a Manager who picked the wrong team and if he did it to show he's the man then that's putting himself before the National interest and is plain wrong

That he couldn't see it needed changing was a disgrace and when he finally did he left our best scoring option on the bench and took our best playing scoring option off - the fans are not stupid and this was shown by the chorus of boos as McFadden was hooked

Burley is showing signs that he's out of his depth and it would be ironic if he falls on his sword at the next home game against Iceland on April Fools Day

Fisherman
QUOTE (Mr. Brightside @ Oct 12 2008, 02:32) *
The problems started way back when he didn't start Boyd and McFadden today, he should have
End of story
Either McFadden or Boyd would have scored that! It is as simple as that



Couldnt agree more, dont know what boyd has to do to get a game. He'd be the first name on my teamsheet.
craigkillie
QUOTE (mcfadden78 @ Oct 11 2008, 17:38) *
Does anyone think Burley has taken the National team down? Personally i feel he is trying to inherit too much of his own managerial tactics into the team from his career. His body language and messages do not inspire. His tactical decisions baffle some people. Its a case of "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Thats what Burley has done.



We haven't qualified for the last 5 major tournaments. I think it probably is "broke".

Burley is trying to get the team a different style which hasn't quite come off yet. At the game yesterday though, you could see what he's trying. Gordon was always trying to give the ball to the full-backs instead of playing it long, and we were trying to pass it out from the back. The midfield were trying to knock it about patiently and wait for an opening, but Norway's defence was narrow and forced us to give it wide. The crossing wasn't good enough, and McFadden always going to struggle to win headers against the two huge Norwegian centre-backs.

Burley was right to bring Iwelumo on, because his physical threat was exactly what we needed in the box. It wasn't a game for McFadden, so I could see why he was taken off - the booing was out of order. Iwelumo's miss was just one of these things which happens. I don't subscribe to the theory that it's the manager's fault because Boyd would have scored that - Iwelumo would score it every time if you gave him another 50 goes at it.

We have now played all the challengers for second place, and none of them are anything special. I think we could win all 3 remaining games against those 3, including the away game in Norway. We might be able to pick something up against Holland, but I wouldn't count on it.

I think we will finish 2nd - it's just a question of whether we will be good enough not to be the worst runner-up.

Shibuya
QUOTE (craigkillie @ Oct 12 2008, 12:00) *
We haven't qualified for the last 5 major tournaments. I think it probably is "broke".

Burley is trying to get the team a different style which hasn't quite come off yet. At the game yesterday though, you could see what he's trying. Gordon was always trying to give the ball to the full-backs instead of playing it long, and we were trying to pass it out from the back. The midfield were trying to knock it about patiently and wait for an opening, but Norway's defence was narrow and forced us to give it wide. The crossing wasn't good enough, and McFadden always going to struggle to win headers against the two huge Norwegian centre-backs.

Burley was right to bring Iwelumo on, because his physical threat was exactly what we needed in the box.
It wasn't a game for McFadden, so I could see why he was taken off - the booing was out of order. Iwelumo's miss was just one of these things which happens. I don't subscribe to the theory that it's the manager's fault because Boyd would have scored that - Iwelumo would score it every time if you gave him another 50 goes at it.


Come on dude, a 4-3-3 system is designed to play the ball out wide, not through the middle. I felt that we completely failed to spread the play yesterday - i dont rate Morrison at all but he was played out of position and didn't give us any width whatsoever. Alongside Maloney, Burley should have gone with McFadden out wide, as he did all his best work out wide anyway and is certainly not an Iwelumo/Boyd centre forward.

I agree that Burley was correct to bring Iwelumo on, but he or Boyd should have been on the park from the start if we're looking to knock the ball in from out wide.

Holland away next, worrying stuff as big Carew ripped us all day and the likes of Robben are twice as quick as him!
craigkillie
QUOTE (Shibuya @ Oct 12 2008, 12:11) *
Come on dude, a 4-3-3 system is designed to play the ball out wide, not through the middle. I felt that we completely failed to spread the play yesterday - i dont rate Morrison at all but he was played out of position and didn't give us any width whatsoever. Alongside Maloney, Burley should have gone with McFadden out wide, as he did all his best work out wide anyway and is certainly not an Iwelumo/Boyd centre forward.

I agree that Burley was correct to bring Iwelumo on, but he or Boyd should have been on the park from the start if we're looking to knock the ball in from out wide.

Holland away next, worrying stuff as big Carew ripped us all day and the likes of Robben are twice as quick as him!



Sorry, I didn't really make my point clear enough. Obviously the system was set up to get it to the wingers, but I felt that Burley wanted the midfield to play the ball inside the full-backs to get the wingers coming through in behind - the same type of pass that put Naysmith in to set up Iwelumo's chance. Norway didn't let us do that, and we were forced to put in high crosses instead, which played into their hands.

I agree that McFadden wasn't well suited to that lone striker role, but we've seen him play there many times for Scotland. I think Burley intended to use him as a winger until Miller got injured.
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