http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ers/7661576.stm


...because it'll cost us a place in Europe if it continues and we really need the money...?

"I've repeatedly said that Scotland's shame is not sectarianism - it's drugs and obesity," added Murray.

That club can't do anything without twisting it to their own advantage, can they? That sentence actually means "I don't really mean any of this sectarian stuff, here's what I really think." What an arse.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at his meeting with Salmond when he claims he is going to address the "problem" that all sectarian problems are being laid at Rangers' door

too be fair, Murray's trying his best - doesn't associate with a certain Mr Donald Findlay QC as much as he used too...

Did you see the fanny from RST on the telly after the agm. He was fuckin raging

i always find it terribly amusing that the party line from rangers whenever the subject of sectarianism is raised is not "lets stop it because it isn't welcome in 21st century scotland" but instead "lets stop it because we'll get points docked or a fine".

fuck sake.

Disappointingly not

What was he saying?

Absolutely.

Got to say I think it's bit harsh people slagging Murray for doing exactly what most people wanted.

Bain tried the deflection technique and everyone (rightly) thought, what a complete fanny. You are whitewashing something that everyone knows goes on.

Murray however has come out and said that it is Rangers fans that are guilty and what they are shouting/singing is not acceptable. No faffing about claiming this or that, just straight out with it.

Good on him, imo.

He is two months too late.
I see this as a restriction on the Hunnery promoting their true quintessential British identity.
Using child abuse and famine at the fitba is what the peepil are all aboot.

Mmm, do you think so?

Read his statement again. It is full of faffing about and clouding of the issue, with statements like :-

""All we are doing is playing into the hands of the media." - giving support to the ridiculous agenda paranoia the RST and their pals have going.

"In the 20 years I've been at this club, there has been a vast, vast improvement on the behaviour of sectarianism at the club." - debateable, but irrelevant.

"Then we don't help ourselves by giving people stuff on a daily basis." - what do you mean "giving people stuff"? Again, that reads not as a condemnation of unsavoury behaviour but a "giving our enemies ammunition" quote.

"Not all of our supporters are pulling in the right direction and they give the media it on a plate" - as with the first quote this is again laying the blame at the door of the media, for exposing the rangers fans' behaviour.

All I have to go on is the BBC link, and nowhere does he say that anything is unacceptable. He says that some supporters post "bile", which is promising, but then implies that the problem there is not so much that it's bile, but that it's bile that the media can get a hold of.

If he unequivocally stated that some actions were unacceptable then fair enough - I wasn't at the meeting so I don't know - but certainly no such action is reflected in the original post. Instead it's a very slightly more forthright repetition of everything that's come before from every single level of the Rangers hierarchy: a sullen, shuffling, non-apology and a desire to avoid punishment above all else.

Were you at the meeting or something?

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with that.



If you want to pick at his comments to suit your needs you know you can, the bottom line here is that he has publicly blamed the Rangers support for the "bile". Now contrast that to Bain's comments a month or two ago where he claimed it was nothing to do with the club.

It's never going to be an out and out statement, but in terms of Rangers and this issue, what Murray said is a step forward (no pun intended) and I don't see why he should be berated for that.


Unlike many Morton fans, I don't hold a dual passport for my club and Ibrox, so no, there was no reason for me to be there..

From where are you getting the information, then, that he'd been decrying supporters' actions as "unacceptable?"

Also when will this be moved to General Nonsense, seeing as it's not about football?

Murray had to take a stand sooner or later it may impact on his political ambitions.

He's not taken a stand any more than any other of the People has done in the past.

"Keep your voices doon, lads - they're listening" isn't taking a stand.

Why not? What is to stop him saying the frothy mouthed Rangers fans need to take a good look at themselves?

Instead, he bleats about the media picking up on this frothy-mouthedness and makes it very clear he is going to tackle Salmond on what he feels is an agenda against Rangers, which we all know is utter nonsense.

As Swampy says, his "bile" statement is a positive step forward, but he then retreats from this with his other quotes. He is never ever going to find favour with the RST types unless he adopts the same ludicrous line they peddle.

He seems to be trying to balance on a beam between frothymouthedness and sensibility, and in the end being ridiculed and abused by both sets. He has to make a stand and decide which way he wants to go.

He has to appear to take a stand as would the Scottish Tory Leader if he was asked about it.

He is in a difficult position, as inevitably making a more serious stand will alienate a good number of a fanbase already facing up to the prospect of Celtic's domination for the foreseeable future.

It will become difficult in years coming up to continue to fill Ibrox to see a runners up team. If the fans are denied their folk singing practice and Catholic baiting, that's a whole section of the support you are going to lose.

Still, he made this bed by becoming RFC chairman, so these problems weren't exactly unforeseeable.

What I fail to understand is why no one from Rangers seems prepared to come out and simply say "Look, this is not acceptable and we condemn it". They always pussy foot around this by trying to pass the buck, blame someone else or say "But they do it too!"

It's not like Bain and Murray weren't aware of these "issues" before they came to power at Rangers. It's not like it's suddenly surfaced in the last couple of years. Thi has been going on for a good while yet and now that they are threatened with fines and points deduction only now are they motivated to whisper that they think it's not very nice. Perhaps one day one of them will grow a pair and face up to the issue at hand.

He's already doing this. FollowFollow is heading for meltdoon!!

'foreseeable future'....you mean next weekend

What exactly did you expect Murray to say? That was a damning attack on the Rangers support and believe me i am Murrays biggest supporter but i am struggling to defend this attack!!

I was not going to contribute much on this thread as it appears to be liberal leftist diddy supporters at their usual anti OF crap but this couldn't be ignored.

When Sir David Murray came to power Rangers had not openly employed Roman Catholics for many years. Forget players they had not even employed any. They gave all their business to Protestant owned companies etc..To all intent and purposes we were a Sectarian club.

When he took over,after Ayr United had knocked him back for lacking ambition, he made it clear those days were in the past. Everybody just nodded their heads and said 'Yes David' thinking it was more empty words. Then on the 10th of July 1989 David Murray broke a tradition i never thought i would see...he signed well known Roman Catholic player Maurice Johnstone!! I think it is now forgotten how important that day was in the History of Rangers. No longer did Rangers have this hanging over them...from that day on Rangers have signed and employed the best people for the job regardless of race ,creed or religion. Roman Catholics have captained Rangers,Lorenzo Amoruso, Roman Catholics have become hereos amongst the support,Jorg Albertz, and Roman Catholics have managed the club PLG.
Probably even more important than all that is Roman Catholics can now sit safely in the stands of Ibrox without fearing they are found out. We are just beginning to see this.

Far from not doing anything to combat Sectarianism in Scottish football i would say nobody has done more than Sir David Murray!! You could argue there is plenty more to be done but you can never argue he hasn't done anything.

He's moving in the right direction, aye, but he's making it really obvious that he doesn't want to tackle the reasons for this, he just wants to cover it up and/or avoid potential fines/ point deductions.



The first part of this quote is very true. The second part, however, shows the real reason for his concern. He's not bothered that fans are singing some disgusting things, he's bothered that the media/ outside world are noticing this bile (and the potential consequences for his club). If he'd said "stop singing naughty songs" that'd have been fair enough, but instead he's saying "stop singing naughty songs, because the media will pick up on it and we might be fined for it/ lose points" - a whole different justification.

In what sense is it an attack? There's more blame being placed at the media for catching your idiotic fans out, rather than blaming the fans who think it's acceptable to run BJK campaigns, and sing the famine song.

Other chairman would take a much harsher stance.


Weren't you a diddy supporter for a few weeks, decided you couldn't hack it, so went back to supporting the Bears?

Signing Mo Johnstone was probably a "brave" step in the context of the times but let's not forget for a single instant that a non-discriminatory policy is the absolute bare minimum that any club should practice. So before we hand out the Nobel Peace Prize to Murray for signing an RC player maybe we should instead view it as a long overdue step that any decent chairman would have taken.

I look after my kids!
You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker!

I ain't never been to jail!
What do you want a cookie?

Signing Mo Johnstone was bigger than just changing the signing/employment policy...It changed Rangers Football Club forever. It changed the way the fans thought and he has continued with this work ever since. He more or less sacked the Vice Chairman for singing a Folk Song every Rangers supporter has sung at some time.

Nobody was asking for thanks by the way. I was just pointing out where we were when Murray took over and where we are now.

Right, but to hail him for being a massive anti-sectarianism campaigner is a bit off when 1) he's not continuing that legacy today and 2) he was only dragging RFC into "bare minimum territory" anyway.

I have no doubt that Rangers have changed for the better in the past 20 years but he's done absolutely naff all of note in recent seasons until compelled to. And this is where we find ourselves.

Banned the OO from using any of Ibrox facilities for their annual church parade...Banned any clothing with sectarian motifs inside the ground...banned any selling of sectarian goods on club grounds....banned certain songs....provides a hotline to 'grass' any supporter seen or heard using sectarian or racist language inside the ground.

He has done a lot more than you hear about in the Scottish Media. The list goes on and on...Initiatives which take in Supporters groups and probably most importantly he has banned scores,if not hundreds, of supporters for life from the ground for breaking these rules.

I'm still putting these in "bare minimum" territory, although I suppose banning the OO is quite a gutsy (and admirable) move.

You have to start somewhere though Swampy .

I'm not particularly bothered about what they have done with regards to signing a Roman Catholic player in the past. What I am concentrating on here is why Bain and Murray seem so unwilling to condemn their fans and their songbook, after all, is that what this thread is about? Rangers sectarian bile and the inability for either Bain or Murray to come out and condemn it.

No this is actually what you were concerning yourself with. You were wrong on all counts. Murray has actively tried to tackle sectarianism at the club from the day he took over. Can you not even accept that?

What I am concerning myself with is the duos inability to condem their own fans actions. It really is that simple. That would be a massive step forward for Murray (and Bain).

You might not think that he has but believe me the Rangers support will think he has. What 'Bile' is he talking about? Which forum is he talking about?...Rangers Football Club should distance themselves from the likes of VangaurdBears(?) and FollowFollow...they should prevent them from using the Rangers club badge and make it known they in no way represent the club or the support. Lordhawhaw is 1 of the leading posters on Followfollow FFS!!

By the way what is it you want them to condemn? Can you at least accept since Murray took over the club has made massive steps in combating sectarianism?

For what it's worth, I totally agree with you. I don't have a lot of time for Murray for various reasons, but fighting sectarianism isn't one of them. It's easy to snipe from the sidelines and say he hasn't gone far enough, but it would have been unthinkable a few years ago that they would have joined the human race ti the extent that they have.

Yes on the first part,, why wankers like the rst are allowed to pop up every 5 Min's on TV and radio ,speaking for RANGERS FANS is beyond me , one simple slap down from Murray would shut them up.. something along the lines of..this mob have got nothing to do with Rangers and we do not support anything they say, would make them look rather stupid.
no on the second point Murray never opened his mouth on "the bile" for 16 years until Uefa stepped in with threats, then suddenly "we have an element" massive steps my arse, He (like Celtic) are only doing the minimum to appease uefa in rangers case the fact that he allows RST to speak for the fans , is happy to have the fans sing the famine song, no surrender, without condemnation shows he couldn't care less, remember he never opened his mouth for 16years while they sang ftp,no pope of Rome, billy boys, and never once questioned them until uefa stepped in!
No doubt you could argue the same about Celtic , but to be fair to them the board has changed about 3 or 4 times in the last 20 years.
Bains half arsed apologetic bigot pleasing Murray sanction famine song response the other week proves the point, contrast that with Reid's famine song outburst, admittedly sticking the boot into the Huns , but still condemning unequivocally sectarian songs

What would other chairmen do then? Ban fans for singing Sol has HIV, or about the Munich disaster, or Heysel, or the IRA, or Ian Wright has AIDS, or <insert name> is a 'fucking paedophile', or Arsenal fans 'hissing' at Spurs fans mimicking gas chambers, or clap your hands if you love Fred West? Croatia were fined £14k for racist chants at Heskey, Getafe fined £435 for racist monkey chants.

Even Joan Laporta the Barcelona chairman can't stop the Boixos Nois infiltrating games (Espanyol recently), and this is a hooligan group that have made death threats to him, and daubed his house with graffiti, so the chances of Murray slinging out thousands of fans singing a song isn't likely.

I have to disagree here...Murray has made it 1 of his priorities from day 1 to stamp out sectarianism. I think he has made massive strides in the 20 years.

Your comments about Dr 'PIRA Songster' Reid are baffling. Provo lover Reids outburst was absolutely pathetic and the sort of 'Bile' you would expect from a 'Celticminded.com' poster. He ranted on about a song sang by Rangers supporters but totally wasted the opportunity to name the songs Celtic fans should refrain from singing...Dr Ried should know the ones i am talking about as he taught members of the Scottish Labour Party the 'IRA Songbook'!!

Where you been hiding?

I've been stuck in the real world keeping away from the shite you lot spew in here, but came in for a look. Same old, same old.

Once again I find myself agreeing with Sir David Murray.

If our supporters care about Rangers Football Club then listen to what the owner says and Follow with Pride.

We are bigger and better than to constantly be tarred with the brush that haunts our culture.

And the government should investigate every league club that is let down by their supporters so I'm glad Mr Murray has said he will ask Alex Salmond to look across the board and not just at Ibrox.

Rangers fans aren't as bad as the Boixos Nois. I can't imagine them sending death threats or making a mess of anywhere. Oh wait. I do think it is depressing that a chairman can't take a stance against supporters, without fear of attack, and you clearly don't hold your fellow fans in high regard if you think this could happen.

I also think Daniel Levy is cut from the same cloth as Martin Bain, so I'm not saying Murray's at their level. Murray distancing himself from these websites, as well as removing Martin Bain from his position, might be a start.

I know I shouldn't laugh....but unlike Murray ,wou walked into that one

You think that's bad...i have been checking out the Lossie website FFS

I aint seen you condem St Mirrens song book as i clearly heard

"Go home ya huns"

On Sunday while you were getting pumped

I can certainly accept that you're a much improved club over the last 20 years (same goes for the other half of the Old Firm too, to be honest).

However, it's a huge shame that he's trying to half heartedly tackle the issues ("in case the media find out about it and we get fined"), rather than face them head on. Given the large support you have, surely he can afford to lose the most bigotted?

Mind you, the "tangerine" away shirt wasn't really a step forward...