On the crowds we get now, we are a yo-yo team between First and Second. Of similar stature to Ross County, Ayr, Raith, Airdrie, Clyde and Hamilton.

Circumstances have driven attendances down over the past few years. We were pulling in double what we get now in the Second / Third Division to start with.

Ah, how I love that word.

I missed it when Gretna finally went bust

I'm going to boycott spaghetti in protest.

Livvie have no real history or built up fan base to pull them through - no one really cares that much if they go under - like Gretna they are a manufactured team.







Livingston FC can hardly claim to have lifelong supporters - at least not anyone over the age of about 20 - which means they are going to be very short of well established businesmen with a bob or two to spare who recall fondly standing on the terraces as a nipper.

You know, if I was a Buddhist, I'd believe in karma. But believing in what goes around comes around, I'd go against the grain and sincerely hope your entire family wasn't wiped out in a freak camel incident.

I'm curious to know what Davie Hay makes of it all. After all, one of the Italian owners (can't remember which one) is his son-in-law. I'm sure Davie would have told him in no uncertain terms that you deal with the Inland Revenue. That isn't negotiable.

You have to feel sorry for him in a way. He's been brought back as a consultant of some description for a club with whom he enjoyed great success, but can only watch his son-in-law and his pal make an arse of the whole thing. I can't imagine he would be too chuffed.

Yes, you are down to your core support just now. A struggling team in recent years and a lack of any real fanbase has culled most of the folk who were hapy to tag along and watch a winning side. And even though you have been doing well this season it looks like most of the hangers on that turned up to watch you when you went through the leagues can't really handle a downturn in fortunes. They are staying away and it's doubtful they will ever come back.

Livi are a much smaller club that Ayr Utd and Raith Rovers. Like I mentioned already, they are only really fit for part time football with the level of support they have. Ayr and Raith have lost support due to similar circumstances to Livi i.e.dreadful form over a few seasons and general depression surrounding the clubs. But make no mistake, if they got their act together they would both have pretty healthy first division sized supports. Livi just don't have that.

from my post of early this morning..............

let there be light? , only if you pay

St Mirren fans lording it up over another club's potential demise yet again.
Maybe they are insecure about something?

So in a desperate attempt to find good news, would this mean no relegation and two up from Div 2?

wonder what "punishment" one of the main culprits in mismanaging my club got ???



Oh that's right the top Job In Scottish Football

corruption it's the future

No you don't. He's an arse. If Livvy do hit the skids and Hay is involved it would be fantastic.

Why are all the St Mirren fans revelling in this? Have I missed something here?

For my part I'm not revelling in anything, but I don't understand why I should feel sorry for Davie Hay, and I don't really understand why it's any more unfair on the fans than it is unfair on everyone elses' fans to allow clubs to get away with overspending.

They hate Hay, which is perfectly reasonable.

And he only enjoyed "success" before at Livingston because they were spending more on wages than they were bringing in through turnover. Such success is cheating, and shouldn't be applauded.

Indeed it should immediately be struck from the record books.

I don't quite understand the venom towards Livi here. The only real bad feeling anyone has with Livi is with ourselves. It's pretty much based on the fact that Stadia Management a company owned by a Dunfermline director I believe went to the wall and in turn sent Livi into admin. Correct me if I'm a wrong. After that the argument has always been based on whose chairman was the biggest idiot, obviously it was Livi's but who cares now the fool has gone.

Anyway, my point is that I think Livi have more than earned their place, have had a valuable contribution to Scottish Football, and so what if they don't have lifelong fans. There are plenty kids brought up in Livi who will one day be able to claim being a fan from the out set.


Gretna I couldnt give a stuff about, I hated all that fairystale rubbish, they proved everthing that was wrong with idiots buying football clubs and stuffing money (usually someone else's) into them.

Livi aren't exactly my favourite club but good luck to them and I hope they can become a bit more stable at boardroom level.

The only thing anyone would miss about St Mirren is the 9-12 points to your own league campaign each season.

Bollocks. You clearly don't know your history.

Deliciously humorous contradiction here

My thoughts exactly. Bizarre.

Dunfermline & Livingston both made statements about us being a small club - when the only reason they were doing better than us was the fact that they were spending beyond their means.

David Hay is a throwback to 91/92 when he managed us to relegation to Division 1.

Attitudes ranging from "dance on their graves" to "it was bound to end in tears" are IMO understandable.

I forgot he was a former Buddies manager. Came in after Tony Fitzpatrick I think. I remember now. Now I get you.

Sorry but I'll stick by the comment. As far as I'm concerned the league would be worse without them. I take it the Falkirk and St Mirren fans are sore that Livi got promoted at their expense? At least when Livi were in the SPL they did something all your mobs do is hang around the bottom of the table moaning about how big a club you think you are. The only other thing you have in common is that you are a bunch of jakey skanks. Or is it because Livi got European football? That's another thing your two clubs always seem to come up short on when telling us all of your past 'successes' (so hard to type that without laughing)

Ooh, so close to perfect. But you forgot to include the word "ambition"

Ah! another Falkirk St Mirren similarity. Which should actually read as

"When the only reason they were doing better than us is becuase they got their Stadiums in order at a great expense to their clubs whilst we sat back and did absolutely nothing, they then had the audacity to get a bit ambitious and spent money on players while we were still moaning about our grounds and waiting for handouts to get them up to scratch"

Why do you not go on about Motherwell and Dundee? You are like children who complain to Mummy and Daddy because one of your siblings got something you didn't even though they got off their butt and went and got it themselves.

St Mirren: the middle child syndrome of Scottish Fitba. (That problem middle child with the gammy limp and bad teeth)

You are a credit to Fife

If you could point out to us the differences, other than timescale, between the Livvy and Gretna approaches to running a football club, I'd be grateful.

Do you work for the SFA, by any chance?

It's Gavin Masterton.

At least Livingston fans have the League Cup win to reminisce upon. And the rest of the big spenders what did they achieve - Administration or (as you're about to find out) a decade in the doldrums!

3 cup finals, 2 european visits, 3 or was it 4 top 6 finishes, and some great football. Okay we won nothing but it was fun whilst St Mirren were enjoying their times in the doldrums.

St Mirren? You got to laugh you do realise if you aren't down this year you won't last any longer than next?

Tell you what stop your bandwagon and let me on "Livi out! Livi out!, Livi out!" A lot of bitter fans of football teams with crappy grounds on here today.

The Livi Trust need to get their fingers out of their arses and with the support of the creditors force a takeover of the club. This is a massive massive opportunity if they seize it!!

Shhh don't say that , that'll just get the Airdrie fans started on Livi aswell. I'm beginning to feel sorry for the Livi fans they don't need anymore grief.

Airdrie have fans?

Livi are in part a victim of their own success in that they had to have an SPL compliant 10,000 all seater stadium which is far, far too big for them. They might well have had a better chance in a stadium that better matches their client base and realistic aspirations. To a certain extent the problem applies to Clyde and Airdrie also - whats the point of occupying and paying for a ground which is far bigger than they need.

The fact that Livi have been run by more than their fair share of rogues does not help. If they do go into administration next week as is widely rumoured, I think the league will come down hard on them and a 10 point deduction will be the least of their troubles - I have heard that it is proposed to relegate them straight to the third division should they survive until the end of this season.

Ah ...so Livvy built this stadium with their own money then did they ....??? news to me !

also i think what you meant to say was they had the audacity to spend money they didn't have....there fixed it

I think your question is answered below

I hear Ban Ki-moon is preparing to make you a UN speciel envoy.

How is it cheating? The past few years we have spent more on wages than we have received through turnover, but the Ballantynes have put money into the club to make sure we don't go into debt. So are we cheating too?

Almost every club spends more than they earn, which is why virtually every side in Scotland is in debt, so should every club in debt should just be kicked out the league?

I bumped into 2,500 of them on sunday, many at the public park on saturday?

Bitter, bitter, bitter St Mirren fans.

Nobody else see's how magnificent a football club they are except for themselves, it must be so frustrating for them.

Personally I see them as a 1st division team who have short lived forays into the SPL, have a disgusting football ground and will still have a horrible ground when they move. And their fans have all got massive chips on their shoulders. The Pars are a yo-yo team too but we actually enjoy it and don't have this bitterness and imagination of past successes that never were.

You know the funny thing is, they are moving to a morose little concrete turd of a football ground soon which is nowhere near as nice as Livi's and the irony of course is it's no where near as long established and the twisted sods are on here slagging Livi for being a 'new' club and having no history.

I await the next St Mirren fang going on about whose money bought what. Your just spawny your dumpheap of a football ground got bought over.

Oh dear. You're still bitter about going down aren't you?

Was there an Orange Walk on?

Not at all, festering around the bottom of the SPL is every St Mirren's fan idea of success, 3 season's of it for us was enough. We see that as failure, I realise for a club like your's it's where you actually want to be. We'll be back at some point and we won't be content with hanging around the bottom again.

I know we will be back up, I know it could be next year, it could take ten year's but there is one thing that is absolutely certain, you will be down soon and it will take you just as long to get back up again just like the last time.

How long were we in the SPL in our last stint? Was it 6 years or 7? Your mob came back up with us and went straight back down again? Gretna saved yer bacon last season and you were baw hair off going down the season before. Are you going to go the whole way down this season.

Hanging around the bottom just waiting to go down..St Mirren are like a whore that hasn't been paid yet.

It's barely three years since Livingston came out of Administration - behaviour like theirs just makes it more difficult for all other clubs (including yours) who do try to budget prudently.

Oh and I answered all your points without selectively misquoting you!

I wonder if they would sell it (LFC) for a quid?

BTB ..do you actually want to see the demise of Livingston? Do you want them to go into adminstration again? Do you want their creditors to be worse off? Do you want them relegated? Docked points? To go out of existence? What's your problem?

They aren't my favourite club, I've practically hated them at times but the last thing I want is for them to go bust, docked points or relegated. I don't see how it is of any benefit to anyone. It's hardly their fans fault if they keep getting run by rogues.

The rantings of a mad man.

That may be true but all of our erstwhile creditors have been paid (can Dunfermline say the same?) - which means if and when we do get relegated we'll be in a far stronger position than you to bounce back.

Wel we'll all find out soon enough how St Mirren perform in the 1st. You'll have to tighten those financially secure purse strings when you come down and seeing as we already beat you with ease this season it looks like we'll be a better side and you'll be a worse one. At least you can tell everyone how financially secure you are and remind of us all your past glories, whatever they are.