Sounds ominous.

Day-late Record, page 66 reports that Livi have been threatened with closure if they fail to pay a five-figure to the Inland Revenue. Oh dear

No link to the website yet

Tried to break the news gently, but some Livi fans still have there amber tinted glasses on.

This is real and its time Livi fans took heed.

We could be out of business next week

I wonder who the FAKE is ?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/sfl/...86908-20909873/

Its alright Massone is a lawyer. He knows what he is doing.
And if you believe that...

Must be one of those "no win, no fee" jobs

This is bad. You don't mess with the Inland Revenue. The same thing happened with us after admin and if we had'nt paid them what they were owed they would have shut the gates...no ifs no buts.....closure simple as.

Just as with the players' wages, is this £100,000 going to come from Mr Massone's personal account?

This is also my worry. "Certain" accounts can be fobbed off, rightly or (IMO)wrongly, with sob stories and excuses. The Inland Revenue though - different beast altogether.

I don't know where the sentiment comes from that the Inland Revenue have greater power with regards to debt owed by football clubs. Since 2002, they are no longer known as what was classed as a 'preferential creditor'. Instead, they have the same legal clout as an ordinary creditor, akin to those who are allegedly owed money as reported by the papers.

If the story is true, then they would be subject to the same legal process as any other creditor. And if the club "went to the wall" as is said, they'd either get the grand sum of bugger all for their troubles, or x amount of pence in the pound from a CVA.

Simply put, do your bloody homework, Gary Ralston.

The bottom line is if you don't pay your taxes, you would go to jail, wouldn't you? Therefore, as a business, if you don't pay your taxes you get shut down and whatever assets are left are sold off

Thats right, but HMRC are one of the biggest creditors that make people bankrupt / wind companies up along with there other Government friend Local Authorities.

If its true we have defaulted then this it is worrying times down Almonvale way.

Time for a body like the Trust to find out the real story.

The point of Mr Ralston's story is Livi are simply not paying bills and HMRC is just another example (if true). We know there are others at Livi.

That might be true but the IR will not shirk in acting. They've been after shutting down a football club for some time now. Can't think of a better club to pick!

Not an ir-retrievable situation but they need to face upto the circumstances and take action, personally I wouldn't be too worried.

I'm pretty sure he did his homework. Nowhere in the article does he state that HMRC have 'preferential creditor' status so you must have imagined that comment.

As a small creditor allegedly (in your words ) owed money, I can apply for a winding up order the same as any other creditor who is owed money but winding up would be the last resort because, as you say, we would get next to nothing.

It has been pointed out previously that there are more than my company treading the legal route so how do you know HMRC isn't one of them and this is the next step for them?

As you are an insider at the club, can you tell us what has happened to the other two gentlemen who were part of the takeover ? Sources claim that they buggered off as soon as it became clear the mess Livi were in.

You should be embarrassed at this feeble attempt to try and deflect attention from the central point which is that LFC is being mismanaged into oblivion.

Haven't we just put in a new kitchen recently..?

The reality is that the Inland Revenue are a creditor in virtually every company failure and unlike most other creditors they know exactly what the score is. They put more companies into liquidation than anyone else in the UK and sentiment will not come into it.

If Livi go for an administration order, that will be the third time in 10? years. That is really taking the corporate p1ss and I suspect they would have a tough time convincing the court (who say yes or no to admin applications) that an admin order is appropriate. If its not then its liquidation and curtains for the club.

The league would also take a tough stance and there's a good chance that if they go into admin again that they will be relegated straight to the third division. At the very least there will be the usual 10 point deduction

Unlike a few others, I wouldn't like to see Livi go to the wall, I really hope this can galvanise the fanbase and serious questions are asked.

I'd agree with VI - after their first few mental years where they attracted a lot of criticism, Livi have settled down as a decent First Division team - good stadium, decent team, good youth policy. Hopefully they'll get through this.

This is all horribly reminiscent of Airdrie's situation in 2002. Other fans are laughing and joking about it, but until your club's been in that situation, you can't possibly know what it feels like. When word came through that it was game over for Airdrieonians... well, I wouldn't wish that feeling on my worst enemy.

I really feel for you Livi fans, and I hope you can find your way out of this mess, but it's looking ominous.

The Livingston fanbase have by and large shown themselves for years to be unable or unwilling to ask tough questions of their club's custodians. This latest drama is no exception - indeed the most vocal opponents are those who have a financial stake in the matter.

IF Livingston go bust the apathy and myopia of the fanbase will be a contributing factor, and a fairly massive one at that. I don't think a single other club in this division has such a passive fanbase when it comes to chancers running the club. Dundee, maybe, but I think even they've learned their lessons.

Its sad to say it but you are spot on.
Having said that its not too late for the Livi support to get together and do something.

As much as I don't like Livingston, I actually agree. To see any club die because of a guy who wilfully won't pay the bills is utterly dreadful.

It is absolutely imperative that the fans create a united front, though, and I don't know if that's going to happen.

Basically Livingston need more fans like MCL to take a vocal stand, and doughfaces like Charles Darwin Esq. should be marginalised. They will be the death of Livingston FC if they are allowed to shape the discourse.

Exactly. We've been through the bad times too and come extremely close to the wire, and the sad thing is I think if it happened at the moment at Firhill the same sort of apathy could set in. I think it's a general theme endemic in Scottish football where there just isn't the same loyality to your club that there was in years gone by for whatever reason, and sadly Livi are probably more likely to suffer from that than most.

It's looking more and more like Livi are on the brink which is entirely consistent with what I've been hearing elsewhere.

I've no strong feelings about Livi one way or the other but one thing that strikes me is that their demise spells bad news for the rest of the First Division. Less clubs means fewer matches and, therefore, less income.

Take the club I support as an example. Our last home game was on November 8th. We are due to play Livingston at Firhill on Saturday. Now imagine that Livi went tits up before Saturday and couldn't fulfil the fixture. We don't have another scheduled home game until December 13th. That's over a month with no cash, aside from whatever share of the gate we get from the cup tie with Stirling, coming in. That's bound to have a negative impact on cash flow.

Now Livi, no matter how serious their present predicament is, won't go bust before Saturday (I wouldn't be looking too far beyond that to be honest) and if they did the lack of gate receipts for us wouldn't threaten us but it wouldn't exactly make things any easier either. Livi go bust and ever other First Division club is looking at a shortfall in the budget they set at the start of the season. Those who have still to play them twice at home would be hit the most.

I think it's because this "X on the verge of bankruptcy" story is so common now. Just off the top of my head I can think of, in the last few years: Dundee, Kilmarnock, Livingston, Dunfermline, Partick... there will be others, too. People might think it's a cry of wolf.

In Livingston's case, though, the situation is grave, and the docile fanbase is doing nothing.

The board really need to make a statement/take action before this implodes and a creditor gets itchy feet and tries to get in first. First in reaps the rewards.

HMRC has been taking an increasinlgy agressive approach to the collection of tax since they lost their preferential creditor status in 1992.

In 2006 HMRC were responsible for 58 per cent of petitions for the winding up of companies – compared to 42 per cent in 2001.

They wind up roughly 50 companies a week in England.
However it is a "last resort", their modus operandi is to protect the revenue at all costs, noone wins when a company folds.

I'm guessing he aint paid for that either. It,s a shame when any club gets in the shite financially and I would hate to see Livi go bump but the silence coming from the club is very ominous. If the story's a pile of shite, then the chairman has got to come out and say so right now. The fact that he's staying quiet speaks louder than words I'm afraid.

One of the henchmen speaks...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ton/7740229.stm

Former chief executive Vivien Kyles has confirmed that she resigned from the Livingston board on Tuesday.
This is not a good sign either......

If he is lying, he's gonna look a right fucking Charlie

On a slightly connected note, I'm sure Geoff Broon would give you a hundred thousand for McKay, Griffiths and McPake....

Somebody is billy bull-shitting us and I don't think it's MCL...

Had a look at their accounts for 2007, only 1.1 million in debt then.
A few small shareholders that will lose out though, again ;

Priniciple Shareholders: Type Of Share No. of Shares Value %age
Lionheart Group Ltd ORD 1,123,216 1,123,216.00 94.00
Mr Walter Hay ORD 20,700 20,700.00 2.00
Livi For Life ORD 12,000 12,000.00 1.00
Mr Peter W Turnbull ORD 7,535 7,535.00 1.00
Mr James Kilday ORD 3,065 3,065.00 0.00
Mr William Robertson ORD 2,300 2,300.00 0.00
Mr Martin James Hay ORD 2,205 2,205.00 0.00
Mr George B Shearer ORD 1,500 1,500.00 0.00
Mr Thomas Thomson ORD 1,500 1,500.00 0.00
Mr John L Bain ORD 1,038 1,038.00 0.00

I hope they aint paying all those directors, 5 Italians plus Ms Kyles.

You are Correct. Sadly another club looks certain to go.

I've been told that a Mancunian devil boy, his bit stuff and his ex cellmate are heading up the M6 this very moment.

No doubt some fans laughed at the Meadowbank Thistle fans when Blobby moved their club to Livingston and changed it's name. Thre vast majority of Livingston fans are 'first generation fans'. What comes around and all that...



Spot-on.



I won't dance on their grave like Captain Sensible, but would not mourn their passing. File with Gretna FC. Perhaps Livingston 2009 will follow Gretna 2008?

Maurice Smith has resigned as a director as well.

And? Do you have to be a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th generation fan before your feelings count?

on the contrary im happy that useless cow has left!

Don't get me wrong, I know what it's like to lose your football club. I just struggle to have *that* much sympathy for fans who only started following a team when it moved to their town. Call it the MK Dons effect.

I'm sure that there will be some people who would be quite upset to see Livingston go under. I'd certainly back them to do what the Gretna and Clydebank fans did and reform their club on the Junior or amateur leagues.

Yes, and we have a shiny new website too. There's not a peep on it denying the stories or even about major events like 2 directors resigning days ago.

Maybe the new webmaster needs to do some homework

Every thing is great, no money worries here.Nothing to see here. Carry on now...

Why does he have the Philapelphia hockey badge on his hat?

That's what I was wondering too!

For what its worth, I hope these stories aren't true. I've not really been keeping up with what's going on, but it doesn't sound great on the surface of it all.

Ah, a good club death brings everyone together

He told me that that was a secret Livi supporters badge. Who am I to disbelieve him. Are you saying he's lying.......I am dumbfounded.....

You'll be telling me next , this aint the new Livi strip.....

its not but it is quite a funny picture

Exactly. I would say around 30-50% of Sequestration are petitioned for by HMRC. They don't wait forever unlike other creditors. You don't mess with HMRC under any circumstances and it is should be the first unsecured debt you pay.



Precisely Tonsilitis, as I said above you mess with HMRC at your peril. They won't put up with excuses or the head-in-the-sand act, they simply act and put the person/company into Sequestration/Liquidation. I also think you make a very good point in saying they will have a tough time convincing the court that they can become a viable business again - if they were not a football club then they would have gone to the wall the last time and you just know the Revenue really want to Liquidate a football club which means they will really go after them.

Words cannot describe that interview Angelini has just done on BBC Radio Scotland.

Instead...im just gloing to LAUGH!

HAHAHAHAHhahahahahHAHhahHAHAHah
hahahHAHAHAHhahahahHAHahHAhahAH
hahahHAHhahAHH*breathe* haHAHAHA
HhahahHAhahHAHahhahAHhhhhaAHAHA

What a tool

For quite a few, that will have been for all of their "footballing" lives. People like you are just footballing snobs, and like all snobs, have no real grasp of what things might mean to "lesser" people.



I'd rather call it the "F***ing Tedious AFC Wimbledon effect".