I fear for the club too.

And no, I haven't created an account to have a dig at MCL - I just havent felt the need to post up until now.

I feel for MCL in his situation, I really do. And I would have done the same thing, i.e chase the club, because they ARE liable - what I would not do have done though, is use smoke and mirrors pretending it is someone else who's doing the chasing, if that makes any sense. I would have kept my own council - I presume the vast majority of the 100+ other creditors have done the same.

Smoke and mirrors? I think you assume that none of the small creditors know each other and if they do they don't speak about the problems affecting their businesses ?

Sharing knowledge can help us all and I've been asked by other creditors about using the small claims court just as I had to ask someone about it as I didn't know the process. One thing we all want to share is who are bad risks when it comes to paying their invoices.

I'm not the only one who has taken this route against LFC and I'm sure I won't be the last.

I also fear for the club.

Seems to me that the club are in financial trouble. Reasons:

1. A new owner who doesn't seem to have paid some creditors for debts incurred under his regime, forget Flynn's

2. A new owner who seems to misunderstand basic contract law - ie a contract is made between the supplier and the ltd company, not the previous owner. Therefore, the COMPANY owes creditors, not individuals

3. He seems to be paying players out of his own wages, rather than the club's finances. A la Gretna. Why?

4. Although the creditors appear to be small, they have not had any communication from the club. Also rumours (not substantiated re electricity and players bonus cash flows).

5. He seems to be hitting out a 'fake fans' - those who have the temerity to ask some legitimate questions (esp given Livi's less than glorious financial history) - there seems to be a bit of 'we're doing well, lets not criticise the board' attitude from the other fans - once again Gretna anyone.

What he seems to fail to understand is that for small creditors the moneys owed, although apparently not substantial to Livi, may well be the difference between continuing to survive and going under. Taking it to its extreme, these guys could be left with pence in the pund if teh club did go into administration. I am a fan of QOS, but I'm not a fan to the extent that I would watch my livelihood be destroyed by their failure to pay for services provided.

Someone needs to tell the Italians to pay up and get Livi's financial house in order. What's the SFA doing in this?

Where are my grave dancing shoes, they could do with a polish.

I can give you a loan of mine. I was saving them for Dundee, but you can use them in the interim.

My view on the situation is quite simple - the Italians are chancers who don't actually have any money.

They 'bought' the club for £1 and thought that they would be able to trade out of the debt but are finding to their cost, and everyone else's, that they can't.

This talk of paying players with personal money is bullshit. I've been told by more than one source that the Italians haven't invested any money in LFC.

Next week should be interesting with the payroll due. Non playing staff were paid up to a week late last month and we've only had one home game this time.

Wooft, your almost as popular as 'him' on Livi Lions.

I can see a Libel case coming on against that site too

Some people will never "get it" will they? Talk about blinkers.

My prediction is a simple one. MY club will be in administration before the season is out. I'd put money on it. Infact I might...all the money they owe me!

The way The Club have acted with its creditors has been nothing short of shockingly ignorant on a biblical scale.

When was the last time you called someone a 'window licker'?

or you could just f**k off and run to the papers instead of conducting yourself in a dignified and proper manner again?

Clearly, you have not dealt in terms of money with Mr Massone.

He doesn't understand dignified and proper, instead choosing the tactics of passing the buck and blind ignorance.

Are you owed money by the club? If you are, I applaud your 'dignity'.

If not I would suggest that you do not attack those people who are owed money and have as yet not went down a more serious legal route. It would appear that some of these people have been waiting months for payment and could easily have been more 'improper' about their actions, but have not done so as they are supporters of the club.

What an apt username

He's owed money by the club and your owners are dragging their arses. He has every right to speak to the press.

Why don't you drop the personal stuff, take of the blinkers and wake up to the fact that Livi are in a world of shit.

no i am not owed money by the club but there are proper means by which to extract money which is owed for example doing as what was mentioned in that article by(after negotiation fail, which the appear to have) using legal methods to freeze the bank accounts etc. but i see no need in dancing off to some rag like the record.

also may i ask why people owed money did not take such action against pearse flynn when the majority of the bills seem to have been run up by his regime?

The last time I used the term was a long time ago on here and I'm sure it was in reference to Dunfermline fans

I'll do a search when I get time.

I think I stated above that I didn't run off to the papers (or dance, for that matter)

I was contacted and asked about my situation. It was also mentioned that word in media circles is that Livi have 2 or 3 days before they go into administration again.

As to your last point, if you actually read the article instead of seeing what you want to see, you'll maybe notice that legal proceedings were instigated during Pearse's tenure. The fact he sold the club and all it's debts to the Italians means nothing legally as it's Livingston Football Club that owes the money and not the owners personally.

Hope that clears it up for you.

sorry if i wasnt clear i meant the bit about:
"I will have to apply for an arrestment order and freeze the club's bank accounts."

I'd imagine it's due to the fact it's approaching a year since he should have been paid and he's was promised the new owners would ensure creditors received the money owed.

You guys are in an impossible situation (MCL & Steven). You support your team and do not want to see them going into admin but when it comes to money owed you must attempt to get it paid as you have to earn a living . What probably makes it worse is that the new owners don't seem to give a flying f**k and their attitude stinks.it would be much better if you could take on the chairman personally( although I realise this is next to impossible) rather than the club ,as the club ( hopefully) will be around along time after this bunch of shysters have been rumbled and run out of town.You are in a no win situation and for the likes of el Bawbag to come on here and slate you is well out of order.
If the Chairman would meet you, acknowledge that the debt is the clubs, and agree to a payment schedule where you are squared up over a period of time I'm sure you'd be happy, but if he just continues to deny the debts are the clubs and gives you the fucking brush off then your stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Can the SFA/SFL not help.Surely they can place another embargo on the club until all the creditors are repaid...

If I was in a similar situation with Saints I really don,t know what I'd do.( probably march into the chairmans office on a match day when there was plenty cash floating about and refuse to leave until I was squared up or get someone to seize his car and keep it till I was paid.

Purely a timing issue.

It takes time for an action to be raised at the Sherrif Court, then carried out, then you need to wait a specified time to give the defendants a chance to respond, then move on to the next process.

In between I'm actually trying to run a business so I can't drop everything to focus on this.

As was mentioned in the article, I'm a Livi fan and tried everything to have an amicable settlement with the club but they ignored my phone calls and emails. I didn't want to go down this route but I don't have an option now.

I didn't go for an arrestment during Pearse's time because you can't go straight there, you need to go through all the other legal proceedings first and Pearse sold the club in the middle of it.

I've said before I don't have any problems with Pearse, Vivien, Angelo or Thommaso. It's purely business (said in my best Mafiosa voice) ...

You obviously have no idea when it comes to company business.When Pearse Flynn sold Livi he was no longer liable for any of the companys debt.In fact as an individual Flynn was never liable.It was Livingston F.C. Ltd who were and are liable

A sensible post as you can see the situation without amber goggles on by putting yourself in my shoes. That's why the letter he wrote and I posted further back was a joke and an insult to us "fake fans"

I would be more than happy to arrange a payment plan with them but they don't return my calls to try and settle the matter.

The situation at Livi is extremely dire! This could be the next club to follow Gretna.

i was not saying they/he should have take action against pearse flynn now i asked why they/he didnt do it when flynn was in charge, which has now been answered.

i dont have a problem with people taking action for money they are owed i just, in general, dont approve of conducting business like ths via the media

Livingston seem to be constantly involved in these sorts of stories.

Are there historic issues regarding 'issues' from previous custodians that mean owners need to 'duck and dive' or have LFC just been unlucky in that they attract shysters?

It's a newsworthy story otherwise they wouldn't have printed it, the same as Hearts' money problems have been documented.

Apparently Mr Massone has been in touch so there will be a follow up in the morning.

I don't think the guy in question went to the papers in the first instance, but rather only when he was stonewalled by the latest in a long line of shysters at Livingston.

I don't know much about the situation but surely you expect to find some baggage when you buy a club for a quid.
Everyone is feeling the pinch and for some at the club to say you are a bad man for wanting your dough should be exposed in the media if this is the only way to highlight your plight,

Family and their security come first over a couple o shysters with a bit o patter, if this is the case I have sympathy for Livi fans as all Morton supporters know we have already been burned with this kind of scenario.

See what you have started

Steve Archibald

Yes he had us eating out of the palm of his hand and those players he brought were amazing to watch yet all the time he was racking up a bill with mostly local companies that could never get paid ( it's taken the current board 6 years to try and get these same companies back on board) and afaik still haven't

you two guys have my backing, there's only one place Livi is heading just please dont phone KPMG they'll wrap you up in a minute.

It looks more and more likely that Livingston F.C are imploding and that administration is possibly only a few days away.This situation could be sorted very quickly though IF the chairman does have a decent amount of cash behind him.The level of unpaid debt is not that high ( rumoured to be around £160,000).Surely if he does have the finances he has claimed he has, he can pay it all off and if he's unhappy with the former chairman , he can then chase him through the courts to get his money back.(He's then short £160,000 for a while but that,s pocket change to him)

The fact that he has not done this and doesn't look like doing so begs the question " Is he full of piss and wind".Unfortunatly for Livi fans the answer to that question may well be YES!!!!!!

Today's Daily Record.

Considering Massone is a lawyer (I think?), he's making a bit of a bottom (ⓒ Fast Action) of himself here. To claim he knows nothing about Alex Todd is verging on the hilarious.

What did he expect for his princely pound coin?

I am beginning to wonder whether he is actually a lawyer.

The Italian's should LEAVE now.

He is a liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is there a chance he's using delaying tactics to give him breathing space till January then he will be able to sell on griffiths, mackay or mcpake to pay of the creditors?

He's all ready turned down money for them.

Maybe its the Chairman thats FAKE

My feelings too. He has totally ignored all legal process all the way.

He's had two letters from the court delivered by Sheriff's Officers and sent a signed letter to me and then tries to say he has never heard of me ?

At least Giovanni di Stefano actually worked as a lawyer

Maybe In eeetttali they do eeet a leetle deefffurent?

Why did the Lavy fans not put their pocket money together and buy the club?

The fans (any fans of any club) who are owed money are in an impossible position, there comes a time when doing things as a hobby for the club you support so as to earn some "pin money" has to evolve into a business and this business takes on commitments of it's own which have to be met.
Unfortunately too many football club boards forget this and try to play on the good nature of the fans and betray the emotional support that they (fans) have for the club over a commercial dealing.
No easy answers here, I hope those that are due are able to collect and that the club (any club) can get back on it's feet.

They aint in Italy now though, are they? If they have the money they should pay-up, if they haven't then they should negotiate a settlement.
The villian in all of this shite seems to be Pearse Flynn?

Did he though? Private Eye have run numerous articles about how Mr Di Stefano's legal qualifications were dubious.

He maybe had dubious qualifications but he definitely practised as a lawyer, most notably for Saddam Hussain, Tariq Aziz and Chemical Ali.

The only thing I can find about Angelo Massone is the fact he was involved in the Nakamura deal as an agent.

Here's the original Sun article from the first post that came up on my search - Sun article

Youre always good at posting the wrong things in the wrong places online, arent you ?

He's about as much of a lawyer as I am. In fact, I think he is less well qualified than me.

This Massone character sounds about as bright as a Hun.

Can Livingston hang on about 7 weeks so I don't miss out on the opportunity of a good grave dance?

It was posted by their "Dad"