Sad that a team doing the business week-in, week-out for their fans, top of the table, can only get 412 at their game.

Not a go at the Brechin fans who go to see their beloved team.

Sign o' the times in this country

Aye, get them tae f**k and give it to a team with the highest average support. Nah, it is a bit of a shame. Many teams struggle to pull in the fans as football is so easily accessible nowadays.

As you say "a sign of the times", I'm sure Brechin have tried various different ideas to get people through the gate but many have fallen out of love with the game especially at a lower level. Many theories have been put forward for this, all day opening, Sky, price etc but once people get out of the habit of going it's hard to get them back. Our financial position has been well documented but many other clubs at all levels in Scotland must be feeling the squeeze and squads will be whittled down with many players I would imagine willing to take lower paid deals just to stay in the game. The lack of transfer fees due to freedom of contract has to go down as a main contributing factor in the lack of funds at our clubs as is the keeping up with the Joneses-paying wages we can't afford.
Hard times ahead for many.

Aye but 3600 still managed to muster up £14 each to watch the Fife derby. I just wish that around 1000 could watch the top of the table team in this league. It's not that long ago that a 400 crowd would be ridiculed even at an East Stirling game.

If only Brechin had another 25 or 35 thousand people living in it, then we too could get big crowds.

BTW 3,600 for a local derby, how pish is that? The recent Old Firm fixture had 60,000 people at it. And I also have it on good authority that some other local derbies around the world manage to pull in upwards of 80,000 people.

In fairness, the likely 340 or so home fans all came from the same family. That is devotion.

You're thinking of Cowdenbeath.

Is yours the town with the centaurs after decades of horse molestation?

No, that's Brechin. Carnoustie has some lovely charred remains though. You'll find them on the 11th on the Buddon.

To be honest i go to every Brechin, the majority of the fans are OAP's , Todays wither was pish so they all thought they'd bide in and watch Jeff Stelling On Gillette Soccer Saturday.

To be honest, I think the city still hasn't recovered from the Stirling team bus incident, people are still scared to leave their homes.

I know Brechin is cheaper than some other clubs, but the season ticket doesn't jump out at being exceptional value. The OAP/ children season tickets are excellent and probably explains the current crowd situation. As for this game, I woke up shivered heard the rain and went back to sleep.... even missed over half of Jeff. In years past I would have said its the state of the game affecting attendances, but now i'd say its also the current financial climate... I know I can't afford season ticket or to go to every game, not helped either recently with essentail repairs to the car and a bad run at the poker. I do go to Brechin games when I can afford it, home or away if theres a car full. I know its different situations but I'd imagine folks budgets slimming on the football part for whatever reason.
So sign of the times or sign of the future?


PS. 60k at last OF game and 80k at other derbies, limited obviously by stadium capacities and security issues. I'd accept a crowd of 3k for a 2nd division game though, derby or not

so what's the solution then? I've posted up on the SPL forum about going to games, and getting crowds in. The price is too dear, especially for places that have high unemployment, too many attractions, lack of sense of community, loads of stuff.

In Brechin's case, which 'big' team has the most supporters in the town? Would it be the sheep?

Link in with them in an actual proper sense i.e. take the entire reserve or youth squad, play them, and have your game played the day before/after the 'link-in' team. Try to sign local boys if you can as well, if you don't want to go the hole hog. Be a feeder club, after all, we are all selling clubs, what's the difference? I've come to the conclusion, the sooner the better, and there's no shame in it, it might even keep a few in business. Wraith can be our feeder club, but that's already happening

Keep the price at a tenner, with a proper father and son gate, with the son being a pound. Give away free tickets to scouts, BB's, air/army cadets, schools and workplaces, anything that's organised in the community, better that than an empty stand. If they spend 50 quid on pies, at least that's 50 quid more than you had before.

Try and link back in to the community, because the local football team is about the only thing that's left that says 'I come from here'. I live in Hamilton in the Waikato, and belive me, there's no Auckland supporters here. 100% 'mooloo' and they are all completely mad for the side. Part of the reason? All the players come from the local community.

It ain't rocket science.

To be fair, Brechin is a tiny place.

I sometimes go to Brechin games. I only go if their fixture doesn't clash with an Aberdeen home game. I have travelled to Peterhead to see them. I went to Montrose for the Challenge cup last season. I do like watching them but Aberdeen is my first team, bottom of the league or not. So I didn't go for prior commitments to Aberdeen as I have a season ticket at Pittodrie and I have for 9 seasons now.

Good to see Brechin top of the 2nd div but i'm sad to see such a small crowd. What was the travelling support like? Raith took a lot 2 weeks ago and the attendance was about 650 (I think) so Alloa couldn't have took much so i would also point the finger at a poor away support (which is understandable due to poor league position) as well as a poor home support.

I blame the hedge

Dont worry diddy clubs. Our numerous away fans will boost your coffers at least two times per season.

Doesn't help the fact there were only about 15 or so Alloa fans that travelled up though. Could only see four in the amber and black next to the pie shop - rest seemed hidden and only made themselves seen when celebrating their goal.

Anyway, as sad as it is... finally had to put something to rest mainly because I had 15 mins spare on a slow Sunday afternoon and I've always wanted to know myself. Just taken average attendances from last season and estimated populations from wikipedia to work out a percentage of a town's population that turn up for the games. This will include the away fans of course but it's quite good for a relative comparison (except from poor Queens Park of course!) The table:

01. Brechin 7.23% (503/6950)
02. Raith 3.71% (1785/48,108)
03. Peterhead 3.67% (698/19,000)
04. Alloa 3.11% (602/19,330)
05. East Fife 3.07% (737 / [Levenmouth area] c.24,000)
06. Stirling 2.83% (1167/41,243 - and that's with Div 1 crowds last season)
07. Stranraer 2.78% (302/10,851)
08. Arbroath 2.76% (612/22,140)
09. Ayr 2.37% (1139/46,050)
10. Queens Park 0.12% (713 / 580,690 [whole of Glasgow mind - not very fair!])

(Estimated population 2006 / Average attendance 07/08)


Quite interesting to see that most of them have roughly the same percentage with around 3 in every 100 folk being bothered to turn up (incl. away fans mind). No surprise that the bottom two are the closest to the Old Firm though. Nice to see Brechin at the top of the league as with everything else just now... by a hell of a lot too!

Any surprises there?

You sad sad man.

Interesting figures, however ours don't make for very good reading when you consider a large chunk of our support comes from Prestwick and beyond. However I think yesterday's weather had a huge bearing on crowd sizes. Our's was certainly down from where it would have been. And looking at yesterday can you blame anyone for not wanting to go.

At least one thing has been proved. Brechin are now officially the biggest team in the league, as well as being the best at the moment.

Good post.

Slightly off topic but I'm sure I read that Dunfermline are the best supported team outwith the Old Firm with attendances per population ratio ?

That may have well been true when they were in the SPL but they're disappearing like snow aff a dyke with every passing season in the first.

Much like ourselves it has to be said.

I don't understand why the OP picked on Brechin though - I always thought they had fair crowds considering their population, and so it has been proved.

Sign of the times imo. For an SPL match involving 2 clubs in easy reach of eithers ground, 7520 for St Mirren vs Glasgow Rangers is pretty damn poor. So even the Greed League don't have it all their own way and it's plainly obvious that some people have had enough of the same old fixtures season after season - that, plus the easy access of games on TV is making the choice fairly straightforward for many. The 'tradiltional fan' who goes to games regardless is a dying breed, sad to say.

Solution? Cut the number of games on TV (ooh, the greed league will love that...not) and go for league reconstruction. No more cartels (top or bottom). The alternative is more non-attending 'fans'.

A sizeable proportion of OF supporters are from outwith the greater Glasgow area, including many from Fife. (basturts)



Dunfermline draws a lot of support from sizeable satellite towns like Oakley Valleyfield Kelty Ballingry Kinross and even from Cowdenbeath and as far away as Lochgelly and Kincardine. Dunfermline itself is smaller than Kirkcaldy, but they have a much bigger catchment area.

Rovers has Kirkcaldy, Burntisland, Kinghorn, Auchtertool, Cardenden, Thornton, Glenrothes, Leslie, Markinch to name a few catchment areas

Agreed, but apart from Burntisland and Cardenden/Bowhill I dont think they're really comparable: Auchtertool Leslie and Thornton and Kinghorn are tiny and added together would be smaller than Oakley; Glenrothes gives us some support as it does East Fife, but Glenrothes has a large incomers population with no tradition of supporting Fife clubs. Markinch is traditionally East Fife territory.

Besides, to Dunfermlines list you can add Townhill, Kingseat, Crossford/Cairneyhill, Culross, Toryburn, Saline, Muckart, Dollar, Blairhall, and Rosyth-Inverkeithing-Dalgety Bay-Aberdour-North Queensferry catchment is huge. So its no contest as far as I can see.

You missed my point; something that Mr Hedgecutter clearly did not.

I wasnt answering your point, if youre talking about Brechin having 'decent crowds' if the population was another 25-35K, which I would disagree with as that would only take you up to the size of Stirling, who did not have good crowds even in the first division. I was taking up your point about OF derbies being attended by 60K. I might have added that when Queens Park played Partick Thistle in another Glasgow derby the crowd was a small fraction of that, my point being that there is no necessary correlation between a club's support and the size of its town.

Ok, so basically you're saying there's not necessarily any correlation between town size and crowd size, so why didn't you get 60,000 at your recent derby?

Well, trying to be serious, the size of the available population is a limiting factor, as is the level of interest, especially at Second Division standard...

What I was saying, specifically in reply to your belief that Brechin would have large crowds if it had a population of another 25-35K you would still probably not attract big crowds, citing Stirling as comparable, but if thats insufficient Coatbridge had a population of 48000 but Albion Rovers have smaller gates than Brechin even allowing for their third division status.
So I was saying that having a large catchment area is no guarantee of healthy crowds, and you appear to have missed that point

You are being facetious for the sake of it now.

Like every club we have our big game hunters. For instance, when we were in the Premier League our home attendance average was around 10% of the population of Kirkcaldy. Fife unfortunately has a large amount of people that would rather go and watch the Old Firm for reasons only known to themselves.

Coming from Dollar I'm really not sure that it is a feeder town for Dunfrmline more for Alloa. Even though there aren't really that many Alloa fans who come from Dollar it's certainly the one that the Old Firm fans patronise if they don't go to Ibrox/Parkhead and the Wasps have a big game coming up.

For at least another two seasons - good news for the teams we leave behind!

I have not missed that point. Brechin is a very small place and manages pretty decent crowds in comparison to its size. Your use of Stirling and even more incredibly, Coatbridge, as examples of how our crowds wouldn't be much bigger if the population was, fall flat pretty quickly given that Stirling's average crowd is about double that of Brechins and Coatbridge is an OF, predominantly Celtic, supporting area within little more than a handful of miles of Glasgow.

Brechin's average crowd, as previously stated, is about 7% of our population. Taking even half that percentage and punting our population up to a similar amount as Stirling would ease us quite happily well past the 1,000 mark.

It should also be noted that there are a fair number of people that go to the Old Firm, Dundee, Dundee United and Aberdeen from Brechin.

Town/City

Population (2001 census)

Local Authority

Glasgow

629,501

Glasgow City Council

Edinburgh

430,082

City of Edinburgh Council

Aberdeen

184,788

Aberdeen City Council

Dundee

154,674

Dundee City Council

Paisley

74,170

Renfrewshire Council

East Kilbride

73,796

South Lanarkshire Council

Livingston

50,826

West Lothian Council`

Cumbernauld

49,664

North Lanarkshire Council

Hamilton

48,546

South Lanarkshire Council

Kirkcaldy

46,912

Fife Council

Ayr

46,431

South Ayrshire Council

Greenock

45,467

Inverclyde Council

Kilmarnock

43,588

East Ayrshire Council

Perth

43,450

Perth and Kinross Council

Coatbridge

41,170

North Lanarkshire Council

Inverness

40,949

Highland Council

Dunfermline

39,229

Fife Council

Glenrothes

38,679

Fife Council

Irvine

33,090

North Ayrshire Council

Stirling

32,673

Stirling Council

Falkirk

32,379

Falkirk Council

Indeed.

Kirkcaldy and Glenrothes together nearly 80k people and we get 1600 so we cannot say much about other peoples atendances imo

Glenrothes full of glasgow overspill=OF

that is rubbish there is not that much wegies in glenrothes.

even if there is we should still be getting much more people than we are for the size of the catchment area

Its not rubbish


Alloa Athletic 899, 408, 663 Highest/Lowest/Average

Arbroath 766 523 633

Ayr United 1,426 1,304 1,360

Brechin City 769 525 611

East Fife 1,010 726 853

Peterhead 837 495 658

Queen’s Park 613 518 580

Raith Rovers 3,637 1,483 2,069

Stirling Albion 906 527 749

Stranraer 1,003 228 454

Trust me yes there are. They may have been born in Fife but a large proportion of the population has roots ion Glasgow. Their parents / grandparents moved there to work in the Rothes pit in the 40's / 50's and they retain that link in their choice of club.

Back on topic I also think it's a bit harsh on Brechin. It is a very small place and the crowds they get are fairly decent from that population.

Wasn't meaning to pick on Brechin. Was having a go at the state of Scottish football that the team who sit top of the 3rd league get 400 odd. By the way, they are top of the league and got 200 less than their average attendence as posted above (I don't understand that).

I'm originally from Glenrothes ,and it's true. A good section of inhabitants have Glaswegian fathers/grandads etc.

I'm from Glenrothes and I am, like many in the town, half Glaswegian. Luckily though my grandad was a Third Lanark fan, and supported East Fife after moving through here, so along with my dad being a lifelong Fife fan the scum firm never even appeared on my radar at any point in my life.

Dont think your catchment areas very accurate.Dollar is nearer Alloa so not many Pars fans there.North Queensferry and Inverkeithing are mostly Hearts and Hibs as it's about the same time on the train to Edinburgh as it is to Dunfermline.Dalgety Bay and Aberdour are about as close to Kirkcaldy as they are to Dunfermline.Obviously the more sensible folks will be Pars fans but there are Rovers fans there also.

Dollar is right next to Alloa.
N. Queensferry, Dalgety Bay and Inverkeithing are all right next to Dunfermline and atleast have the distance to there as either Kirkcaldy or Edinburgh.

Including Glenrothes, Levenmouth and down to Burntisland then the catchment area for Raith can be put as high as 150,000. Our average support for such a big area is pretty poor.

If even half the Old Firm fans in Scotland went to watch their local team then I'm sure most clubs would atleast double thier home gates.

Not only is the population of Brechin small but there isn't really a catchment area either. There are 6 other senior teams within a 39 mile radius.

You just fired you're load all over the screen there, didn't you?


I'm genuinely shocked Brechin seem to be enjoying this crowd wank more than anyone else. I thought that was our place.

We share a catchment area with three other teams, as well as Rangers and Celtic. Fife is our catchment area, just as it is for Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath and East Fife.

Who cares?

*Coughs loudly*
You know your place.

Sadly for me, and also yourself, we will no longer be the biggest club in this league next season

We'll have nothing