What the fuck?

This is honkin'

Aye? I'm waiting on it downloading just now.

I used to be a right Pro Evo diehard having played it since the first Pro Evolution Soccer title on the PlayStation. However, PES6 on the 360 was poor, as was PES2008. Last year I bought FIFA 08 as well as PES2008, but I didn't play either game much compared to how much I used to play the fitba games. Used to be addicted to the master league for example.

If this demo is honkin' then I'll be both disappointed and happy, which sounds weird. Disappointed that the mighty have fallen, but happy cos it'll mean not potentially having to fork out for the full game as well as FIFA 09 because that is definitely getting purchased tomorrow.

Told you lot already, PES2009 will simply be 2008+.

That's fine for the PC as it's still miles ahead of FIFA on that, as for other platforms I can't see that going down too well. Those expecting this version to be an evolutionary step will be sorely disappointed.


Edit: link for the PC download.. http://www.pesfan.com/news/?id=7392622

Edit 2: It's 1Gb in size! That's not far off the original size of PES6!

I couldn't put my finger on it before but now I realise it's basically like a 2002 arcade version of Pro Evo. I honestly can't believe this is the best they could come up with

The presentation is absolutely diabolical too. What are they playing at?

Aye, agreed Ric. They come away with crap every year about it being revolutionary and all these new features, but it's just the same as the previous year with a couple of tweaks. That used to be ok back in the PS2 days, but not on the current next-gen consoles cos the first versions on them are pish to begin with.

That's the 360 version, right? I'm downloading the PC version just now and I'll let you know the differences between it and 2008 there. Now I know you are going to give the usual replies but for me the PC PES is superior to all other football games regardless of machine they are played on. A 2009 that is just a 2008+ isn't a bad thing in terms of the PC.


Thing is, and I've played PES and FIFA on the 360, and for me PES is still the better game and far from pish.

What's so bad about it StandFree?

Yes, 360 version. I do not care a jot for your PC version with millions of patches, as well you know

Seriously though this is a massive disappointment. Could be the first year I don't buy it at all. After finishing the demo there's a wee movie showing you all the new features. One of them is "Legends" mode, which is basically Fifa's "Be a Pro" mode except on Pro Evo you can only play FOUR players on the same team online. That's even less than Fifa had last year for online Be a Pro. I'm utterly gobsmacked at the lack of progress.

Actually, I'm pretty saddened by it. I used to love Pro Evo and every year it improved upon itself. This year they have basically given up and released a spruced-up version of Pro Evo 4 or something.

I was just writing when you posted that! I'm just hugely disappointed. I guess it will appeal to fans but I used to think I was a hardcore Pro Evo fan

Edit to say: If you want to play Pro Evo 4 with slightly better graphics than last year then you might enjoy it.

Being a total Pro Evo purist and all that I think this is about the 3rd game where I have been waiting for them to actually make steps forward; for them to go backwards yet again is obscene. I think the creators must just be sitting about smoking weed rather than actually improving the game.

That's how I feel too. I dunno, you'll have to play it and see what you think, you may well like it.

I'm playing it, and like it. The ball does sound like a burst waterballoon when you hit it, but it is just more intuitive than FIFA with all it's glitz, and style over substance. It's a football game, what more do you want them to do with it?

Heh... careful now, that sort of free thinking doesn't go down well with SF..

IXI, just to confirm what system are you playing it on?

I'm playing it on the 360, I loaded up the PS3, but it isn't on the network for download yet.

What more do I want? More than a 5 year old Pro Evo game with improved graphics.

What shite are you talking about Fifa as well....."glitz"? And you call me a homo you raging queerhawk. Fifa is superior to Pro Evo yet again this year as Fifa seems to have addressed the problems of last year and made improvements. Pro Evo has actually gone backwards.

Have you heard of Dino Dini's Goal? That's a football game yuo should buy. Well, what more do you want?

First impressions are it feels as if the long range shooting, and through ball have been improved greatly, just scored a screamer with Rooney against Liverpool, and a lovely through ball from Dani Alves to Henry finished off Italy. I like the sheilding of the ball too, no longer are you just barged off it and no foul is given, Cristiano Ronaldo will score some peaches as well with this long range shooting. The referee seems a bit more tolerant as well, a tackle that wasn't worthy of a yellow, wasn't given one for once in a PES game.

It doesn't look a lot different from earlier versions of PES in ganeplay, so don't expect a massive overhaul. The top menu screen certainly looks different, more Andy Warhol look (looks almost like a CD cover) + Indie/soft rock music about it. The legend mode looks interesting, I usually play it on co-op two player in a master league anyway, so it might give them game some added longevity.

I played FIFA 09 and PES 09, I'm usually a PES fan, and after playing both demos I think it will be staying that way.

Im quite happy with the demo, its far better than fifa on the pc, i downloaded fifa 09, its really bad.

It's something few people realise, although you obviously do, the PC FIFA is not next gen. It's the old school FIFA, while PES has been "next gen" for all platforms for nearly all it's life.

What has 'gone backwards' with it? 'Zomg it lost some licences!!!!11 FIFA is pyoor better!!!1'

As for Dino Dini, I had more fun playing Sensible Soccer on the arcade version (which I even bought) than the FIFA 09 demo. 16 bit graphics, and better gameplay beat a 2008 football game for playability. PES is incremental improvements, what exactly were you expecting them to produce?

Where did I mention licenses you total glebe?



A game that doesn't look and play like Pro Evo 4. Incremental improvements that, as Dubs says, we have been waiting for about 3 games to appear. It hasn't improved on anything from last year bar the manic pace and graphics.



Aye, I see you will still be regularly be playing Sensible Soccer in a years time

What has gone backwards then? The shooting is improved, the menus are less cluttered, the music doesn't sound like an illegal German techno rave, the passing is crisper, the attacks are more fluid, and the editing has been tweaked. Add in the inevitable option file that will surface and the teams won't even look different to FIFA.

I admit that while being a Pro Evo anorak the loss of some of the licensing is quite annoying as well, can't believe they don't even have the full Spanish this time.

This is the way FIFA was at the turn of the century. Pro Evo now smacks of complacency now just as FIFA did then.

It's a sad fact that EA's product has overtaken what was once the finest football series on the market, but it's a simply reality (imo) that since FIFA 07 Pro Evo has been lagging behind

Right, I've had a couple of games on the demo and I'm with SF on this one. Never thought I'd take the FIFA side of this argument over PES, but it's happened. I'd say FIFA now has more substance in terms of gameplay than PES. I always used to think of PES as the thinking man's football game. It always seemed to play more like real football... more of a sim to FIFA's arcadey style. The tables have turned though, cos it's definitely the other way around these days. PES is too fast and arcadey, whereas FIFA is a lot more considered and realistic.

Some folk may prefer the more arcadey style of PES to the realistic FIFA. Although I'd think it strange if a longstanding PES fan took that stance and made that argument as, in my opinion and as I've said, FIFA used to be the more fast arcadey game.

The licenses and superior graphics/presentation don't really matter to me, I was a PES diehard for long enough afterall.

Are you blind and deaf? The menus look like something from 1995, they're that bad. The music is the same obscure rubbish they always have. Fuck me, I'm hardly surprised if you think that Sensi is better than Fifa09.

Did you actually play PES2008? All that has been done is to take the pace down a notch, any other tweaks are barely even noticable. That wouldn't be a bad thing if last years game wasn't so shockingly poor.

Aye, real "evolution" there eh? No wonder they dropped it from the title.

Which is why I am so disappointed with it. I have bought every single Pro Evo game for about the last ten years and it was absolutely untouchable. Fifa was dire, diabolical even some years. EA got the finger out and made (fairly) drastic changes while Konami have tried to play it safe over the last few years and ended up with a game that is just plain inferior.



That's probably why so many people have gone off it. As you say, Pro Evo used to be the sim but this latest one plays like the arcade game they have upstairs in Perth Sportsters.

I'll need to download this when I get home, but this all sounds like very sad news. Last years Pro Evo was so poor in comparison to the series high points that I promised myself that I wouldn't blindly buy the next version out of sheer habit/loyalty.

After playing the Fifa demo a bit and finally starting to get the hang of the game after years of Pro, I think I might finally be about to jump ship.

Christ, I'll be supporting Celtic next

The PES 2008 that had universally good reviews (bar framerate issues with the PS3 version), that PES?

I just played the PES demo, and the FIFA one there straight after each other, PES still wins for me, even the replay system in PES is miles better. FIFA feels like every other EA game, far too much style over substance.

I remember reading the reviews for Pro Evo last year and generally they were solid 8/10's. If you actually read between the lines of the reviews some of them were basically saying that it was good grace that was getting it that score and in reality, if they looked at the game as a unique entity and dismissed all that came before, it was probably just scraping a 7/10

I quite like the menu design. Looking at the intro to PES2008 you could see the way they are going. Yes it's a very derivative style, but it looks fine to me from a designers point of view.

The music I would never listen to, but if you are really going to judge a game based on what menu music there is, then there isn't much more to be said about it.



By that description, it doesn't sound like you have actually played it.

After playing it a couple of times there are distinct differences. The first thing that hits you is the graphics. On the PC I used a thing called LODmixer to push the graphics up, however the game now sits at a high resolution at default. The graphics are also better than FIFA (on either system). The lighting effects have been completely overhauled and the stadium crowd has been improved (although still not perfect).

Into the game and the speed is the first thing you notice. This is where FIFA got it right, imo. PES can be seen far too much as a sensi-esque dash and shoot game, with FIFA you had more time to build up an attack. I am sure that's why it was slowed down. The next thing you notice is the collision detection. That's been inproved significantly (and PES wasn't as bad as FIFA in that respect anyway). You can now use the body properly in tackles. In fact the collision detection changes an awful lot about the game. With the reduction of the boundaries and the lowering of the speed, it's come much closer to the way in FIFA where you build up your attack slowly.

The AI also seems improved with players actively looking for flick on's, or running down the line into space when perhaps in 2008 they were less likely too (even with the tactics set for them to do so). Granted I was playing with Man U in the demo, so those players will have a higher intelligence rating meaing they read the game better, but in comparison the AI is better. It doesn't apply solely to attacking either. The defence is more sensible. No longer choosing to stand right next to the guy with the ball so that when you pass it, the opposition player can charge you.

Free kicks have been improved, thankfully. It was a constant frustration that regardless of power and direction, 2008 had limited freekick control. That's now changed, and it's almost a joy rather than a chore to get a free kick. You can now aim the ball to the back post and it will go there instead of floating directly into the keepers hands. Talking of free-kicks, them and corners now suffer a little from the balloon effect. Whenever set piece kicks are taken they tend to look a touch "floaty". Although this might just be the perspective with the new lighting making it feel that way. I'll happily trade that in for the improved set piece control though.

There's lots of other little things too. Like the linesman's flag now fluttering away as he runs down the line (the linesmen and ref are shockingly poor, nigh on pointless in FIFA). The crowd in the stadium being more 3D than the flatter version of 2008. The net has been improved and those silly sandbags next to the goal removed. Players looking for a pass will now raise their hands and shout for the ball, something FIFA had implemented a while back, but PES just never got round to adding until now. All these things don't make a game, but there have been lots of little tweaks under the hood.

It's not all gushing praise though. There are some things that still stand out as needing improved.

1) Keepers. While an improvement (just) on 2008, they are still nowhere as good as the keepers in 6. In 2009 they have gone all continental with just about every shot being punched out. This would be fine if it was out of the pitch, or out of the box, but sadly it's normally to the nearest oncoming opposition.

2) Throw in's. You are still blocked from getting near the thrower, and the computer still throws it to the guy nearest their own goalmouth. When you get a throw in the players stand statically not moving. Nothing has changed between this and 2008 which is a shame as the free kicks have.

3) Passing to the wrong guy. This is common in any footy game, but PES has it's own brand of madness. It's still present though much to my disappointment. The AI has improved a little so at least the guys are making runs, but you still have that problem of seeing a guy running to your right, you aim and click the pass through button and it goes to another bloke. That's frustrating as hell and is as common in FIFA as it is PES, but I just wish they would beef up the AI with that.

4) Online play. Even though we haven't seen it, we know this is going to suck in PES. It's a shame as it's now a completely key element to the game and Konami continues to produce an online experience that sucks the cock. Maybe this one will be better, but we've been saying that since PES4.

5) 360' movement and passing. This is something neither FIFA or PES have added to their game. PES2008 aparently had an early implementation, but it was taken out as it didn't feel right. The time of football being limited to 8 directions is over, both FIFA and PES should start to implement this immediately. Of course the reason they don't is the number of people who use the D-pad controls rather than the analogue stick (and I have several friends who swear by the D-pad and wouldn't touch the analogue), but we need to move onwards.

Will I go out and buy this? Yes, as it is a step forward, despite what others may think. I have been a close follower of the series and have analysed it through thousands of hours play. Yes, it's 2008+ and not really 2009, but the improvement in collision detection and freekicks make the game worth it, and certainly on the PC it's almost like the FIFA09 demo was being played on a MegaDrive.

Am I a PES fanboi? Yes, of course I am, you all know that, so no doubt my comments above will seem overly positive. However whether I am or not, doesn't change this from being a very decent footy game, even if it's not the massive improvement some expected. Maybe it's because I knew what this game was going to be like that I haven't been so disappointed, like SF, who knows.

Jesus Ric, are you The Huns Ghost?

The 360 version has a metacritic score of 76. FIFA 08 has 82. I haven't checked for other versions.

The PES that Gamespot reviewed And scored it a mighty 7 out of 10?



It goes on for some while after that but you get the gist.

How about Gamespy:



Official Xbox Magazine:



Yes, universal acclaim there.

Yes, but you play it on the PC and we're not talking about the PC here. We don't have millions of patches and different graphics cards to use etc. We have to put up with whats given to us, which is why people are getting pissed off with it.

What a stupid thing to say. All you've done is said, "yes the points you put forward are entirely valid but as I can't answer them I am going to devalue them in some way".

Why are we not talking about the PC version here? It's essentially the same game as the 360 one (in fact the PC version still has the xbox controller graphics in the menus). The demo doesn't need patches or a different graphics card to run it. I didn't change a thing from install. In fact, if you would take a second to read the requirements of the game you would see it's no different from what FIFA requires to run and it's a significantly poorer game on this platform.

Honestly SF, that was an incredibly poor answer to what was an in depth analysis of the game.

Just demonstrating that I actually take time to investigate parts of the game, and compare them to the previous release, before throwing my toys out of the pram. Unlike some other people I could mention.

Demo's are like pre-season friendlies, always shite and simply a warm up.

I've never played the PC version so how on earth can I possibly give an accurate critique of how it compares? You keep saying how Fifa on the PC is absolutely abysmal and Pro Evo is great, how can I agree or disagree without even having played it? You've said countless times that you've had a patch for this, a patch for that but now you are getting snidey because I'm not agreeing with every thing you painstakingly typed in that massive post?

As far as I can see we are all discussing the console version of the game.

And I just noticed your wee toys out the pram dig, how big of you.

The game was harshly marked due to stuttering online, but I couldn't care less about online games. As for being 'awful' I don't know when 7/10 became awful, but it must be according to you. Read an IGN review or other 8/10 reviews of PES 2008.

FIFA is for 12 year olds that want the players to look exactly like Rooney, or do 'mad skillz!!!1' with Ronaldo. The licences with PES can be solved by an option file, and it just plays better than FIFA. PES doesn't need a massive overhaul with every game, the core gameplay is more important than having the La Liga licence. The only part of the FIFA demo I liked was the 1vs1 before the game kicked off, the actual game was a damp squib.

Last year's Pro Evo pre-season friendly saw them carry the same form into the competitive season though.

I've really got into the Fifa09 demo the last couple of nights. I was initially disappointed with it, probably because I had Euro08 and didn't notice much difference. With Euro08 I felt they'd sorted everything I hated about Fifa08 though so that's not much of a bad thing, I just wanted improvement. Having played it quite a bit now I notice massive improvement over the summer's game, it's sublime. Having had a game of Pro Evo 2008 directly after a Fifa09 demo session it was a massive, massive stepback.

I'm not looking so forward to downloading the Pro Evo demo tonight now, the talk of them continuing this arcade approach is heart sinkening. I'm not sure even any slight improvement over last year would be enough.

But alot of folk do care about the online aspect, and frankly, it was unplayable.




Best phrase ever

Two birds with one stone an' all that.

You don't need to, I have and I have given my opinion, if you are ignorant of the game then don't say anything. I am not forcing you to answer anything, this is a free forum for people to give their opinions, I am not in direct dialogue with you alone.



You mentioned patching, that has no reference what so ever to this demo. It's like me saying, "well FIFA is shit on the 360 because you can get the red rings of death on that machine". It's irrelevant.

You also confuse "painstakingly typed in that massive post", with doing a decent bit of research into the answer I gave rather than your blind howling based on what?


The differences between the 360 and the PC versions of PES are minimal, you never stated that it was the 360 version we were only allowed to discuss in this thread.


Because you have. You have started a thread as to why this is so poor but you have given absolutely no sensible reasoning behind it. Yet when someone else does, and when they disagree with you, it's nothing to do with your opinion and that it's all my fault for playing the thing on the PC.

Either stand up for your opinions or don't but don't be so spineless as to dismiss them entirely out of hand based on some sort of personal dislike of PCs.

If it stops you from getting even more upset:





What the fuck is a LODmixer? I get a disc and put it into the console, I can't "push" the graphics up so I don't know whether or not they are better worse without using your LODomatic.



All basic things that you would really expect, no? Especially seeing as this is the umpteenth version of the game. All things that Fifa (by your own admission) had gotten right already.



I haven't had a direct free-kick yet so don't know. The ball does feel floaty though and the ball physics are still not quite right IMO.



The net still has that ridiculous big sag in the middle of it. Anyway, these are all cosmetic and as you and THE ONE have both said, they don't matter. Right?



All problems the 360 version still seems to have too. The online play last year was appalling. I didn't have one game without severe lag and I hear it STILL hasn't been sorted out. As I have already said countless times, it's a major disappointment for me as I expected a marked improvement, not just a couple of wee tweaks.

Do I have your permission to use it in everyday conversation from now on?

I didn't see any mention of it being marked down for stuttering online. Maybe you should go read it again. "I couldn't care less about online games".......aye, must be rare to be stuck in 1999 with Sensi soccer like you.




You mean 12 year olds like:



Creaming your pants over Rooeny, Henry, Ronaldo et al



Pray tell how I get said option file on my 360 please.

Hardly mate, I rate your opinion on computer games so low I couldn't get annoyed about your comments if I try. From experience if I ever disagree with you it's always my fault or the fault of the platform I play it on, never the fact that you might not be right.

Honestly go back and check your previous posts. I knew that you would react this way when I posted my comments.


What relevance does that have to this demo? I was explaining the detail levels based on 2008 to 2009. I too have "got a disc" and "put it in the console PC", the same as you.


Not all, not all in the slightest, if you are going to misrepresent my words at least make sure my comment is not quoted directly above it. I said that the pace of the game FIFA got right, that's it. That's not "ALL" by any stretch of the imagination.


So you are making judgements on a game that you haven't even fully played? My God, you realise how daft that makes you seem?


Of course these cosmetic changes don't make or break the game but they are a nice addition. It was your claim that nothing had been changed that I was addressing. I was demonstrating how little things have been changed. Is it now a negative point that they have made these improvements?


The online play is shite. I have no problems with admitting that. It's a huge problem with PES and one that probably won't be solved with this new version.

http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=58648

Quote from the thread..



Now you can stop asking that question, as you've mentioned it at least 3 or 4 times and I have explained to you how to do it each and every time.

Ermmm have you played PES2008? You can do 'mad skillz!!!1' with Ronaldo in that both by you doing something to make him do it (the flip flap, Zidane turn for instance) and without you actually doing anything, just turn him a certain way and he does wee tricks.

Besides nobody in this thread that's praising FIFA09 that I can see is saying FIFA is better because you can do 'mad skillz!!!1' with certain players. Like wise, nobody is saying FIFA is better than PES because of licenses. Licenses don't matter to me, the gameplay does. Myself and SF both prefer the gameplay of FIFA now to PES, it's as simple as that.

In addition, the Wayne Rooney and Ronaldo models in PES look like their real-life counterparts just like in FIFA, so I don't really get that point either.

So you haven't used anything to "push up" the graphics? I thought that's what you meant for the demo, if you didn't then I apologise.



I meant all as in all the improvements you mentioned in that quote. They are all things that you would expect to be better given that they have had years to improve and "evolve" the franchaise.



I said I hadn't had a direct free-kick yet, I'm being honest hardly daft. I could have just said "naw, they're shite and all". I can't comment on the PC version because I haven't played it so why would I start with something else?



It has changed in respect that the presentation looks different to PES 2008 but still looks like a PS2 game at best. You wre the one saying that the music doesn't matter etc but it's all part of the whole picture.



Can't disagree, I find it bewildering that it still hasn't been sorted out.