Probably because O'Neill had already left?

Hopefully the return of the SPLs best defender caldwell will help.

I agree, it isn't. McManus is a total bombscare, and Loovens looked like a panic signing at the time. Hasn't done anything yet to make me think otherwise.

In their defence though, Celtic's attacking style exposes them. Which is why you can't have it both ways. Celtic look like scoring 3 a week at present. I thought that was what you wanted?

Yeah, I was waiting for that! I can only imagine the fury of the Celtic fans would have forced him out the door anyway had he not chosen to leave.

After all, 4 home defeats, by a 2 goal margin to your bitter rivals and to diddy Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs, along with European failure and the surrender of the title would have led to an angry mob with pitchforks and torches hounding Catholic Irishman Martin O'Neill out of the door.

Do you think that's what would have happened?

I want to be entertained, too many games I'm not.


I also want to win every game 5-0, however I don't expect to

You have some bee in your bonnet that Strachan is suffering at Celtic due to his religion, regardless of teh evidence that it's never been a problem at Celtic park, nor any Celtic fans saying it's an issue, I simply cannot see how you can continue to take this line against all the evidence, still you do.

I think that's exactly what would have happened. You only have to look at the way he's been vilified by the Celtic fans since to realise that that indeed would have been the case. :generic_sarcasm_smiley:

You have outlined your criteria for Celtic manager. He has to win the title every season, with entertaining football, or he has to go!

So, will you tell me if you would have been calling for O'Neill's head after season 04/05? Yes, or no.

No

And it's not what I said, I want to be entertained every week , yes I pay good money to be entrtained.

And while I want to win the league every season, I really don't want to win it every season, it's what football is all about, being entertained and kiving in hope that you win every game.

Strachan's teams do not entertain as much as they should, only IMO of course

You've got to laugh.

Last season you were saying that Strachan should go if he didn't win the league.

This season you are saying that Strachan should go if he doesn't win the league.

C'mon now it's early on, once us big bad "huns" are getting close to picking up the trophy and out-doing his mob (might I add once they have been pamped out one of the "diddy cups" and Europe) he will have gone back to last seasons

"GTF Strachan"

The mystery deepens I am afraid. I am totally puzzled now. Just to summarise, to see if I can follow the logic.

Celtic minded Irishman Martin O'Neill didn't have to go after losing the title to an awful Alex McLeish side for the second time in 3 seasons, having failed in the Champions League on every occasion, with a wage bill many millions higher than Rangers.

Presumably his lack of success was excusable because his sides were entertaining? Debateable, but I can logically follow this.

Gordon Strachan, who has never lost the title, and taken you to CL heights previously unobtainable, does have to go if he doesn't win the league, (as you have stated) even though his side are scoring a barrowload of goals and being involved in entertaining games

Nup. You will need to help me here, I am struggling. Strachan would appear to have a completely different set of criteria to his predecessor, the Celtic Minded chappie.

He has to win the title every season, and not only that, do it in an entertaining fashion, to even keep his job in the eyes of fans like you.

His predecessor was able to fail repeatedly in Europe and at home, yet this wasn't going to affect his job and he remains a hero.

And we are to believe that these different dets of criteria placed on both managers have nothing to do with non-football reasons. Mmmmm....

Anyone explain this one to me?

All wind ups aside, and I'm certain that there are a few Tims out there who would still think he wasn't suitable if he won the Champions league and then prayed to the Blessed Virgin afterwards, on telly, basically Strachan doesn't have the PR skills that O'Neill does. He doesn't kow tow to the Celtic fans. Again, to be fair, most Celtic fans didn't have a problem with Protestant managers in the past. I think this has a lot more to do with his personality, and refusal to buy into the Celtic legend. Which is great, because that means he still has a brain, and still couldn't give a f**k about what a bunch of purple faced tossers choose to scream at him or write about him, just like at Coventry and laterly at Southampton.

He's got the measure of TGFITW and they don't like it, one little bit.

Yes, it could well be that his refusal to pander to the frothy mouthed of the Celtic fanbase, like O'Neill did, is a factor. O'Neill was quite smart thoguh - he trotted out the delusional paranoia card Celtic fans adore, to cover up the inadequacy of his record over the period.

I admire O'Neill. To have managed to retain fan approval despite being comprehensively outmanaged by Alex McLeish is impressive.

I still need the criteria for Strachan approval explained to me though. Lord Haw Haw is tying me in knots with his logic, which seems to change from "I want to be entertained" to "he must go if we don't win the league, no matter how much I am entertained - failure is unacceptable", back to "failure for O'Neill was acceptable, because err, I was entertained".

Maybe it's just me that sees this as ludicrous.

Maybe you're the only one who has enough free time to analyse his vacuous ramblings.

True. Maybe I should get a real job, and actually work during the day. I will ponder it...

Yes, but in the meantime you can sit and wait for that Carl Jung bloke to post.What a hoot!

You are right of course, there are still a few donuts that would dislike him if he led us to Champions League titles back to back ffs!

These twats however are not really worth bothering about are they?

Strachan is doing a good job IMO but even though I like him there are still things he gets wrong and does things that annoy me and make me spit at the telly knowing I could make a better decision about this or that, but hey that's football and I accept it and get on with it and love it for what it is.

I know guys who are never happy and are always complaining but it's not just football, these guys who hate Strachan will also hate the next guy we get in, perhaps not with quite so much vitriol as the wee man has directed at him but they'll find something to complain about without seeing the overall great job WGS has done.

I think that he must be viewed as a very successful manager of Celtic and more successful than O'Neill was, especially in Europe. He has done it also with a fraction of the money MON had at his disposal and is also still handicapped in some way by O'Neills insane Balde contract.

I am starting to wonder if Strachan is baring the brunt of hatred that should possibly be directed towards the board.

I know Strachan has had some God awfull signings, but the lack of signings and finances he has had is a bit shocking. I was wondering if Strachan was going to actually do some signing during the summer, but maybe the real question should have been, will the board allow more signings.

Strachan does a good job with what he has, although i wont ever forget when he said last season 'i can show you statistics to prove we are great, but i don't know why we can't win any games' i mean ffs, if he doesn't know the answer, the who does??
He never used to admit his mistakes, but this year that is looking like it has changed? THe best thing he done compared to MON was he makes a sub at 60 minutes and not at 85 minutes like O'Neil used to do.

I wouldn't have been sad to see Strachan go last summer tbh, as i think the old firm do tend to need a fresh manager every 3-4 years, but at the same time, i shudder to think who they would replace him with. My fear was Neil Lennon.

I'm sure he had more finance available than was actually spent.
By most accounts, the players that were targeted either had excessive transfer fees placed upon them or demanded extravagant wages.The lack of signings could be put down to the financial acumen which allows them to see the value of a player and avoid paying too much for said player.

Of course, Rangers chose the opposite strategy and (in terms of league position) it seems to have paid off, but we'll see what happens in the January transfer window.

Interviewer to MON: "Martin, you've been humped at home again, what went wrong?"

MON: "... massive club... proud history... playing the Celtic way... amazing fans... refereeing conspiracy... Celtic Minded..." (goes all misty eyed at this point)

Result = Celtic fans love him, despite losing the league twice playing Route One stuff

Interviewer to Strachan after a win "the fans were magnificent today"

WGS: "the players were magnificent today"

Result = Celtic fans want him out even if he wins the league playing more attractive football each year

Sadly, a lot of Celtic fans would rather have Lennon in.

As us football fans a a fickle bunch, I'd think that a win against Villareal will change opinion somewhat.

As an OF neutral, I think he's done a relatively good job, especially in Europe. Essentailly, if you look at our domestic league in Scotland, we are comparable with say the Ukrainian league, and they've not been as successful as Celtic & Rangers have been over the last few seasons.

What Celtic & Rangers fans need to ask themselves is who would seriously consider the jobs at Parkhead & ibrox if they were to become vacant?

There's too much expectation domestically from the two sets of supporters, and not enough hope when it comes to European competetion - easy to win the diddy league & cups eh?

Only reason Celtic & Rangers are so successful in Scotland is because of their greater fan base & therefore financial clout - but when one of the more 'provincial' teams get a result against them, the knives are out from both sets of OF supporters!!

MON was unlucky in europe though, didn't he get more points than Strachan on 2 occasions but still didn't get through to the last 16?

or are we of the opinion he is again that proddy b*****d that is tearing sellick apart from the inside!!

Oh this is innovative and because you inspired my creative side, I'm off to start a 'how shoite is McGeady' thread. I'm pretty sure that's never been done either.

Already commented on that thread!

Predictable they are if nothing else, haw fatty there is alreay a thread on this with almost the same title ya daftie

No, that one is "do we think strachan has silenced his critics?"

It was posted due to your mob going on a winning streak and you all being happy.

Now, again, for the 17th time in 18 CL proper games, you have recieved your a*ses on plates away from home, and have come home with heehaw. Do you still have faith in WGS?

Do you think, that if he fails to pick up a point against Man Utd away, and doesn't get all 3 at home. The fans will back him?

Me thinks if that happens, then there will be fans everywhere going mad.

TIMPLOSION!

No.

Martin O'Neill's Celtic got 9, 7 and 5 points in the Champions League groups.

Strachan's Celtic got 9, 9 and ? in the Champions League groups.

O'Neill was not 'unlucky' in Europe, his teams were shitty enough to get beaten by two goals by Harald 'fuckin hell, how did he miss' Brattbakk (who hadn't scored in something like 7 games at the time) as well as getting beaten by an Anderlecht side on the slide and then throwing the match in Munich.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

But it's Martin O'Squeal, he couldn't do anything wrong!

He didn't do anything wrong, it was one of them cowardly hidden hands that knocked the ball into Brattbakks path (twice) as well as palming the ball over Hedman in Munich.

Yep, and he didn't leave them with a squad of deadwood pensioners, ready to retire for the next manager. As well as no money.

In fairness O'Neill couldn't help the fact hedman completely fucked up in Munich

I think he'd been up the top of yon big science tower thingy and had spied out how shite that team down Govan way actually were and mused 'If I fuck up this team before i piss off, it might make the SPL a bit closer in something like three years time'.

tbf, it wasn't a matter of fucking up Celtic, it was more a matter of the players all getting old and into their 30s, he would have had to have brought in new ones and didn't have cash. He pissed off at a time, and also lost the league. Strachan has yet to loss a league title, yet he has been getting alot of stick from the same Celtic fans who idolise O'Squeal.

I know we were sh*te, but what does that say for the rest of the SPL?

Right, I am still pondering this Haw Haw. I need either you to explain your logic here (which has of course nothing to do with non football reasons) else I am sending out a bit of chalk to Matt Damon the janitor to see if he can solve it.

What is the answer to this dilemma?

Personally i think this is Strachan's best year so far. Seems like he is learning from some mistakes and quick to make changes. So far this season i don't think he has done much wrong, other than play Nakamura last night, and take off Maloney as the first sub. Other than that i think he has had a good season, and i hope it continues.

If Strachan is having a good season surely there can't be enough superlatives in the english language to describe the season Walter Smith is having then!

I just hope Strachan continues this for the rest of the season, Rangers should win it by at least 15 points!!

Walter Smith is having a good season?? You call no European football and taking Partick Thistle to ET a good season?

...eh fc kaunas,, OUT OF EUROPE AT THE FIRST HURDLE .......do you write for the daily record?

Given the current CL situation I would expect the 'not living up to the expectations that Strachan himself has set us' phrase to be wheeled out fairly soon.

You seem to forget that Sellick are at the first hurdle they have came across in europe this year and things dont look to good on that front for them. 2 games = 1 point

Your team have been humiliated at their own ground by their greatest rivals once already this season and are sitting 3 points behind them in the league.
You say Strachans only mistake has been to take Maloney off as the first sub?
I think you should stop drinking during the day especially when your doctor has advised against it for your own sanity!

Can I just say this in response

4-2

So because Boruc had a bad game, Smith is all of a sudden a world beater??
Yeah ok then.

We will see come may though, as i do believe that you lot won the first 2 old firm games last year.

You know what, if i had the choice of losing all 4 old firm games 4-2 and winning the league, i know what one i would take

Good point.

If Haw Haw wasn't in hiding, having realised he has completely tripped himself up with his Strachan hating, I would ask him if this will indeed be the case.

For the record, he should have avoided trying to come up with logical reasons why Strachan has to go (which will inevitably fail, considering the armchair ride his underperforming predecessor got) and just stuck with "err, he isn't good enough".

You've had a million logical reasons why O'Neill was better than Strachan: chiefly to do with Martin's team garnering more points and scoring more goals, avoiding embarrassing cup exits to diddy teams and so on and so on. You have also been pointed in the direction of Coventry City supporters for independent verification of Chesney's incompetence. Still you beat this tiresome and ridiculous drum.

In European terms Strachan has been very lucky to come up against weak opponents. Even leaving aside his Artmedia debacle, he was fortunate that Parkhead had become a fortress under MoN, which allowed him to edge past very poor Benfica, Shaktar and Copenhagen sides. Of course this season his luck has ran out and his ever worsening team is currently heading for a humiliating last place finish with a total of one point.

Alongside these concrete facts, there is also the much more important subjective experience of fans. In my case the magic has now undoubtedly receded - if not cleared off altogether!

Eg. It was my usual practice to press my television's 'surround sound' button during Champions League nights in order to "lap up" the atmosphere. However, in recent times I have simply let the depressing spectacle unfold quietly in the corner of the room. Last night I even entertained some conversation with the Mrs.

I constantly find it ironic that Celtic fans wheel out previous managers successes in comparison to wee GS.

This type of behaviour is familiar with football supporters of clubs with a limited history on success. There becomes a fear that any heady days from the past will never return and some Celtic fans actions could indeed be compared to supporters of other clubs such as Aberdeen or Dundee Utd with their harking for any of their managers to live up to Ferguson or McLean respectively!

I have said before on here that Celtic have only really enjoyed two managers who they could really say did the business for them over a period - Stein and Strachan! O' Neill may just accompany these two having been saved by the appearance in Seville but overall, their supporters realise that their history is not that grand pre Jock Stein and there desperation to reach his heights once more comes from an insecurity in knowing they have actually had only 2/3 managers in 120 years who have truly risen their hopes in aiming for domination. When you have suffered more than not, there is always a wish to gain back someone who dominated for a period. Strachan does not fit the bill according to many of their support however!

So, while comparing Stein to Strachan would be ludicrous in the changing world of football, they still do relive glory days under O'Neill because out with these other two, there isn't really anyone else who could fit the bill!