Yeah, playing Manchester United etc is no contest to games against FC Diddy in the UEFA Cup that you had with Saint Martin

Boruc couldn't have saved 3 of them anyway, so even if he didn't make that blunder, we still win. Lets also criticise the fact that Nakamura dived for his freekick for the goal, then moved it 4 yards backwards so that it was in a range he can actually hit as it was too close.

Edit: IF's and Buts.

Call me daft, but I liked going into games against the very best with every chance of getting a result. I remember Agathe and Petta swording Ajax in Amsterdam, the lion-hearted John Hartson banging a vital one in in Vigo, Lubo taking Juventus back to school, Alan Thompson rising to the occasion in places like Anfield and Camp Nou as we turfed them out etc. etc. etc.

Fair play to Naka for his free kick against yinited, but we looked seriously out of our depth until Jarosik's dubious tumble which won the free kick - Boruc having pulled us out of the mire time and time again. Aside from that game the results have been largely disappointing, bordering on unacceptable.

It betokens the lack of ambition which characterises Strachan's entire tenure imo.

You say you liked going in to games against the very best......... Agathe and Petta? yes they had decent games against Ajax, in a qualifier to get to play against the best! John Hartson banged one in against Vigo but we were still beaten in that game. Lubo took Juve back to school on a night where we went "out" of the competition. The occassions where we "turfed them out" were in the UEFA cup not in the last 16 of the premier competition that Strachan has led us to.

You say also fair play to Naka but it wasn't a free kick, yet you forget that Hartson fouled (not skillfully turned) his man against Vigo for his vital goal that night. You say Boruc pulled us out the mire time and again. I must be missing something I thought that was what he was supposed to do, or do you consider it failure because our defence allowed shots at goal? Would you not have liked to have him there in Seville when Douglas screwed up? Keepers are there to do a job. Ask rankers fans if they thought their defence was pish during the 9 in a row they put together and they will probably say they had a great defence but ask them how that defence would've looked without Goram??????

I'll take WGS over MON any day of the week and twice on Sundays.


Edited to add. Think I'll do as you ask and call you daft!

I've always been of the impression that Strachan doesn't mind who he upsets or alienates and i think this will prove his downfall. There will come a time when he needs friends and he will find himself extremely isolated.
Personally , i think he is doing a good job , we can argue about his signings , his attitude towards the supporters etc, but the bottom line is he has delivered the success he was employed to attain.
Martin O'Neil was always going to be a hard act to follow. If you reversed their tenures would O'Neil have got as much flak as WGS?
If O'Neil won three championships in a row and reached last 16 twice then he truly would have been a legend.
We ,as supporters , are entitled to criticise our manager but i feel some of it is way over the top Maybe and it's just my opinion , the Hun press are deliberately trying to unsettle the club with stories of Srtachans' unpopularity and creating unrest , stoking the fires if you like.
Keep up up the good work wee man and heres to four in a row.
Don't let the b*stards get you down!

Exactly right! Had, as you say, their records been reversed and Strachan had failed time and again to reach the last 16 while losing the title twice to rankers on the last day of the season then he would have been pilloried and the subsequent success we have enjoyed would have been like mana from heaven.

Have you been drinking this morning? The so call hun press dont need to stir it up amongst the sellick fans. Your paranoia does that for them.

Seems to be a favourite of yours 'Have you been drinking this morning' . Maybe the drinking problem lies a little closer to home lardarse
Not be long till the pubs open 1hour 16 mins and counting

Err, Strachan has garnered more points than his rivals every season in charge. O'Neill did not. It is irrelevant how many points you get, other than in relation to the competition.

If I am to accept the goalscoring point, then if Strachan's sides keep scoring at 3 a game as they are domestically, then Haw Haw and yourself will be well pleased!

Yet, what's that I hear, no, apparently Strachan has to win the title every season (as O'Neill didn't, being humped up the backside by a laughing Alex McLeish) and score goals. Why the contradiction?



Like Inverness Caley?



Big deal. It is a total irrelevance to Celtic fans what Strachan did at Coventry.



Yes, you should really just stick to this completely to be honest, as once you stroll into the land of logic, your "arguments" look utterly ridiculous.

Go on, trot out the refereeing conspiracy line as to why Alex McLeish dildoed O'Neill's side twice in the league, you know you want to

Exactly, and this is the crucial point.

Imagine if O'Neill had acheived the CL success Strachan has, and was unbeaten titles wise against Rangers? It would be hard to imagine the adulation the Celticminded one would be receiving.

Of course, according to you Gordon Strachan dildoed Walter Smiths huns last season due to refereeing conspiracies.

Anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt, everyone carry on...............

Celtic did indeed get the better of the refereeing decisions last season imo. Sadly, that is the way it goes, and was the case in the O'Neill years also, that one side or the other gets more decisions in their favour.

Agreed.


Strange how quiet bey has gone since I kicked his points he brought up squarely in the twig and giggle berries.

Also first class from Zenith for putting it so succinctly about the reverse of tenures. Spot on mate.

We didn't just get the better of refereeing decisions, we had referees who were going out their way to ensure we won the title last season. A conspiracy of gigantic proportions. According to you of course.

Let us examine these cases in detail.

The away game against Ajax was absolutely seismic as it qualifed us for the CL for the first time ever. It was the first time in many, many years we had beaten a top European side away from home.

John Hartson bravely battled two filthy Argentinian centre halfs all night in Vigo and his goal meant we were in Europe after Christmas for the first time in 20+ years.

True, Lubo's masterclass v. Juve came as we were edged out into the UEFA cup but no shame in that. With 9 points we narrowly lost out to the mighty Juventus and the Porto of Deco, Ricardo Carvalho et al.

The next season was the historic and magical run to Seville. Only the most outrageous skullduggery denied our bhoys the taste of success.

The season after we were unluckily drawn against the fantastic Lyon of Juninho, Essien etc. and Bavarian cracks Bayern Munich, departing into the Uefa Cup with a more than respectable 7 points and a creditable home victory over Lyon. Indeed the loss in Lyon was marred by controversial penalty decision which spoiled a sensational comeback from 0-2 down.

The season after we were drawn with Milan and Barcelona which gave us no chance.

I hardly need mention that all these experiences were so unlike anything that had happened for a generation or more beforehand that they were almost unbelievable. Obviously great credit goes to Martin. The context of Celtic's place in the scheme of things had been altered for ever.

I enjoyed watching Martin O'Neill's teams and the tactics we employed. I find myself sitting confused with what we are supposed to be doing as a team under Strachan, we look a disorganised mess...incidently does anyone think we need a left back?

Whereas Strachan is currently taking you there every year - how boring - if only he could get you into the UEFA cup instead...

Er..... ok. Irrelevant as it may have been I quite enjoyed winning more often and watching better players scoring far more goals.

"In relation to the competition" the huns of Strachan's time have therefore been feeble, underachieving failures. Certainly they were put together far more cheaply than Advocaat's Dutch international select.



Us taking several goals off SPL opponents should be looked upon as the natural order of things, and its been something of a relief to finally get back to that over the past couple of games. However John Barnes' team used to do the same - and the defence was similarly inadequate back then which meant the same sense of unease even when things were going well. Then as now the next disasterous performance was never far away.



The demands are the same for every Celtic manager I would have thought.



We lost to the Inverness franchise with an experimental side during the Seville run. We also got beat by Hibs' "golden generation" one year. Other than that we only lost to the huns - in freak/dubious circumstances usually - but more often than not we lifted the cups.

Now the humiliating exit to Clyde, Falkirk, Aberdeen, Hearts etc. is an annual event.



How is it irrelevant? Coventry fans wanted him out because he made them worse - ditto Celtic fans.

Conversely, Wycombe, Leicester and Villa fans are well disposed to MoN because he immediately took them forward, treated them to some excellent football and was a likeable fella into the bargain. Ditto Celtic fans.

Yes, there really is no more to it than that.



There were glaring inconsistencies in the officiating: Barry Ferguson getting 3 penalties in one game, linesman Andy Davis making himself a household name, Hugh Dallas and so on and so on.

I hardly think controversially 'winning' the league on goal difference on the final day (with an enormous squad that cost twice as much to put together) constitutes a "dildoing"

Rangers squad in 2002/2003 cost a total of 43 million.....
6/7 of celtics players cost 33, i cant be arsed thinking of any more players..im sure celtics squad would have cost more.

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...t&p=2357504

See here for the actual figures.

Youl be including people like Tore Andre Flo, who had been sold by 02/03

If you want a full list of rangers squad/cost for 02/03 im happy to oblige.

Flo played 4 league games that season, so it is fair to include him.

well 5.25 million of him if you want to be like that...48 million then. Still makes a mockery of your claim.

It's totally clear that you dislike Strachan (prob hate him) for reasons that lie outwith football because as was pointed out by zenith, had the achievements over the two tenures been the same but the managers reversed there is no doubt whatsoever that MON would be labelled the second coming!!

You can try to deny it all you want but you are one of these stupid Celtic fans who would rather the team lost and Strachan got sacked so you could get Roy Keane or any other Irishman in at the helm.

Can't be arsed with tits like you son!

Lucky lady! What did you chat to her about?? The wholesale persecution of the Irish diaspora / Celtic supporters which has continued unchallenged from the days of the famine into the 21st century?

Or did you treat her to one of your treatises on Jung, Kierkegaard et al, and how their musings can be directly related to 21st century "sturdy-bonced" non-Celtic supporters?

Whilst this is clearly correct, Beyemystic is playing a role on a website. It's a pantomime villain role, and one not to take seriously.

No one with any pretensions to be serious could suggest losing to an Alex McLeish side twice in three seasons (note he avoids mention of the vast wagebill O'Neill had compared to McLeish, and the value of the squad McLeish won the league with, including such heavyweights as Gavin Rae and Hamed Namouchi ) wasn't a sacking offence.

As zenit pointed out, if Strachan had been in charge for the 5 years to 04/05 he would certainly have been hounded out by the bigots.

Not only was O'Neil beaten twice by an inferior team, we must all remember the Golden handsake contracts he served upt to several of the first team just before he left. My particular favourite was the decision to give Bobo his current contract. If I remember correctly he is on in the region £30K a week and receives quaterly bonuses and lets not forget to mention the get out clause that allowed him to leave after a year if he felt like it. How did he get that one past the board?

The fact Beyemystic has suggested Liam Brady being a better manager tells you all you need to know.

And anyhow, Roy Keane is no Hoopy The Huddle Hound

This is getting so preposterous that I really shouldn't encourage you.

But if Strachan's first season had contained a treble, a 36 point swing from the huns' previous season (21 points behind to 15 points ahead) and ambitious, proven quality signings from the Premiership then, yes, he would have enjoyed all the plaudits Martin did.

Had he returned our European credibility for the first time in a generation, again, he would have been lauded just as much as Martin.

On the other hand, if MoN's tenureship began with humiliating cup exits to Artmedia Pereschalka and a Clyde team cobbled together a few months beforehand by Graham Roberts in open trials he would have been on the backfoot. Likewise if his first season had garnered one point less than we did in the previous campaign questions would be asked regarding his competence.

Had Martin signed Pressley, Miller, Brown, Caldwell, Brown, Wilson etc. he would equally have faced the consequences of such folly.

And while we're on the subject let's clarify something about the "last sixteen" of the CL.

Despite its financial boons, it is not an end in itself. Perhaps to fans of diddy clubs or the Scottish national team the "last sixteen" must look mightily impressive looking from the outside in, with grubby faces pressed up against the glass.

But MoN only desired "last sixteen" qualification because he knew once it came down to the knockout stages his team were capable of going all the way. He didn't want to get there, crow about it, and set out a team of numpties for damage limitation.

Let us have no more stupid babble about the "last sixteen".

Of course it's not an end in itself (a bit like getting to the UEFA cup final, but being soundly beaten isn't really an end in itself), but it's a pretty good benchmark, and means finishing in the top two of the Champions League group.

Since Celtic clearly wouldn't be in the top sixteen of a European League (they'd make the top sixteen in England, mind), it shows that your team is punching above it's weight.

As for MON knowing that "when it came to the knockout stages he knew that his team were capable of going all the way" - it's funny that he never managed to get to the knock out rounds with his expensive squad

We've been over this.

He was drawn against:

1. The all-conquering Juventus with their shadowy owner Luciano Moggi and the Porto side of Deco, Ricardo Carvalho etc. who were themselves to go on to European dominance.

2. A fantastic Lyon side - a mish mash of Brazilian and French internationalists - and a tremendously strong Bayern Munich.

3. Milan and Barcelona.

Now, had the feeble Benfica side that we edged out under Strachan come into that equation then there is no doubt that we would have reached the mythical "last sixteen".

Edit: and had a realistic chance of doing something.

Re-edit: If's, buts and maybes make a cynical tim happy!

1. Which all-conquering Juventus team was that? Was it the one that went out in the next round that season, or maybe the one that finished bottom of their group in round 1 the previous season? Actually, aren't they the same team? While we're at it, it should also be pointed out that both Porto and Juventus finished bottom of their respective groups in round 2 that year.

2. The Bayern Munich side were also so tremendously strong that they managed to also get knocked out in the next round. Lyon faired marginally better that year, getting to the Quarter finals.

3. You forgot to mention the other team in your group that season, although I'm sure that was a mere oversight, given the solid trouncing O'Neill's stalwart soldiers undoubtedly handed them. It really was such a pity that they were placed in a group with Barca and Milan that year, although the consolation of entry to the exalted Uefa Cup must have given some comfort at the end of it all.

Couldn't agree more. Calling it the 'round after the group stages' or 'the round before the quarter finals' doesn't quite carry the same resonance as the mythical 'last sixteen'.

Smith is having a great season

Thanks for that fascinating insight into your domestic world.

Any more incredibly dull comments like this and I won’t be nominating you for Private Eye’s Pseuds Corner ever again

After another disasterous weekend for Celtic (a 4 goal humping of Hamilton, followed by a Rangers defeat) a crisis meeting of the Strachan Hating Idealist Team was convened at Haw Haw's house.

"Right boys, things are getting desperate now. We need a new plan and fast. Brother Mystic's exploitation of the lack of goalscoring was a masterstroke, I think we can all agree..."

"Aye, magic, nice one Brother, well done on that eh" (all)

"But now, just tae spite us the wee scrotum is sending the bhoys out every week and they are scoring a barrowload"

"Yes, but that's just the players Brother. No credit to Strachan. If Martin was still in charge, we'd have won 14 nil at the weekend. Indeed, I remember fondly the time Steve Guppy scored 6 in 14 minutes against..."

"Yes Brother Mystic, WE know it's down to the players and of course St Neil of the Lennon (God bless and protect him) and not Strachan, but them out there aren't buying it. We need to win the hearts and minds of the faithful at large and unite the family again."

"So, what do we do?"

"Eh, well, we are going to be third in the Champs League group. Can't we just get him horsed after that. Say it isn't good enough?"

(Sighs around the room)

"How many times do we have to go over this Brother Seamus? The UEFA Cup is THE premier European competition. Have you not read St Martin's third letter to the Kerrydalians?"

"But I thought the Champions League was th..."

"NAW. It's no'! The UEFA Cup is secretly what every club side wants to take part in. They just pretend to like the Champions league for purely financial reasons. It has nae prestige."

"Aye, right. Spot on brother" (All)

"So, anyway, (glaring at Brother Seamus) we cannae get rid of him for taking us intae the UEFA Cup. He pure knows it too. He's daein that on purpose too. B'start that he is. We need to get shot of him soon, before he takes us tae a 4th title and we are stuck with him for 5 more years"

"Um, but don't we want tae win the title Brother Haw Haw?"

"NAW! Well, aye, obviously. But no' wi him in charge. We need a manager thit knows the score, so that the title is a proper title, no a tainted one like the last 3. We need tae lose the title this season so we can win it with a more suitable candidate, that is more in keeping with our, umm, eh, traditions, that's it. The last thing we want is this character leading us to 10 in a row (room blesses themselves, says silent prayers). There are already those who are denying the Blessed Martin and"

"NO. SACRILIGE" (cries around the room).

"(Holds hands up) I know brothers, I know. For those of us with Celtic in our hearts, the Blessed Martin is our true leader, and always will be. But the naysayers are gathering at the gates. I'm not sure we can hold them off if the Poisonous Ginger Thing wins another title, and in the style we currently are doing so".

"So, I beseech you brothers, go hither and thither, think, cogitate and ruminate on what demand we can make of the Ginger gargoyle that he can't meet. We need action, and now!"

I thought it was (dreadfully) hilarious - "turn the TV up hon', the atmosphere is particularly poor tonight" *His wife mumbles from the other room* "Yes, I know it's Strachan's fault, dear" .

Oh, and H_B's (above) post is a fairly accurate summation of the "Celtic minded" argument (on this thread) regarding Strachan - although I assume the transcript has been edited as the obligatory "Darren O'Dea is better than Caldwell" and "I like McGeady.He's great" discussions have been omitted.

Can't say I didn't have more than a smirk on my face when reading this.

Couldn't help but think about the meeting in Monty Python of the Judean Peoples Front.



Nice one HB.

Lord Haw Haw must be purring today after another entertaining goalfest at Celtic Park. Strachan really is giving him exactly what he asked for.

Another poor weekend for the Strachan haters though, with a 4 goal display and Cillian Sheridan notching also.

I think SHIT might be having another crisis meeting this afternoon.

2nd meeting of the S.H.I.T. - Baillieston, Glasgow 26 Oct 08

Brother Haw Haw to chair.

"Okay Brothers, first Order of Business - Brothers Keevins and Guidi send their apologies. "

"Secondly, Brother Mystic will be taking all deposits today for the pilgrimage to Birmingham. £50 secures you a place on the bus and payment before 31st October also gets you a complementary bottle of the Blessed Martin's bath water, certified and consecrated by Brother Walford. An incentive to you all, I am sure. Our local Provident Financial representative is available at the back to assist those brothers experiencing a pre-Giro cash shortage. "

"Now, onto the main business of the day - an update on plans to remove Gordhun Satan from our glorious family in christ and celticism."

"Following our humbling by the very average Manchester United in midweek - yes, quite Brother Mystic, one wonders indeed what Aston Villa would have done to the wretched collection of Scottish nonentities (of course exempting the heroic efforts of young Aiden and Cillian in a hopeless cause) Satan sent out as lambs to the slaughter, it is clear that our chance to secure a Celtic minded appointment before Satan condemns us to the ignominy of Champions League failure must be grasped here and now."

"To add fuel to the fire, only yesterday did the hated ginger gargoyle humiliate us by losing two goals to the Edinburgh traitorous treachorous Hun apologist "Hibernian". I have rarely been so angry, thinking how low Satan has taken us that "Hibs" can notch two goals at Paradise. I..."

"Yes, Brother Seamus. What is it?"

"Umm, in O'Neill, sorry the Blessed Martin's last season, did Hibs not beat us at Paradise 3-1 and Aberdeen beat us 3-2, Hearts beat us 2-0 and Rangers beat us 2-0?"

"And your point being Brother Seamus?"

"Well, err, didn't that mean the Blessed Martin should have been sacked?"

"Sigh, once again Brother Seamus, you miss the point completely. The quality of football on show that season, even in those defeats, which I think we can all agree were caused by the scandalous Masonic refereeing so prevalent in Scotland, transcended actual results. The free flowing beauty of the performances left you spellbound, and completely unable even to begin to care about the scoreboard, unlike the prosaic "4 goals, big deal" ethos of Gordhun's battlers".

"Now, moving on, I believe Brother Mystic has a new plan to cast this snake from our midst. The floor is yours Brother".

"Brothers, I have cogitated, ruminated and puzzled on this during a recent week's retreat in the hedge behind the Blessed Martin's conservatory in Brimingham, and have concluded that there is only one way to resolve this issue. Like our Provisional Brothers being subjugated in Ireland, sometimes a cause is so just, so righteous, that it justifies extreme measures to end oppression. And surely Bothers, surely, no one can gainsay that this current humiliating position is nothing short of an oppression of the Irish peoples worldwide. To that end, I believe the ultimate sanction must be considered, to hit the PLC in the only way it feels pain"

"Yes Brothers, it's time for a hunger strike. I propose a Pie Boycott, with a one bovril limit per month, even in December. Let's see what Desmond and the other craven scum in the boardroom have to say when the catering business is brought to its knees."

(Applause)

"Once again Brother Mystic, you astound us with the ingenuity of your thinking. Let us go forth Brothers and spread the word and let our noble cause be successful as surely it must if god is listening to our pleas. In Martin we trust. "

Damn your facts, d'you hear? Damn them. Plastic states quite clearly that we've been over this ground before. It is a closed topic. Your subjective Masonic twisting of the bladder of Martin is intolerable. I would advocate the death penalty if I didn't think you'd like it.

Exactly - facts are meaningless - they can be used to prove anything

Beyofpigshit has been seen entering his local hostelry clutching a copy of the programme from the Celtic 6-2 rangerms game and muttering something along the lines of...."lucky wee ginger sh1tbag. Martins team wudda scored 7 you hear me? SEVEN!!!!"

Go on WGS get it right up them.

obviously what big bobo knows and the celtic heirarchy dont want anyone else to know is the reason he got that contract

pity the board never thought about when the deal runs out

Yes, the fact O'Neill was beaten twice in 3 years by an inferior, poorer paid, cheaper side isn't in question.

Nor is the fact that in his final season 2004/05 Celtic lose 4 home league games, to Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts and Rangers.

What is puzzling is the logic we are presented with byt Celtic fans, who to a man insist O'Neill didn't have to go after these humiliations.

The self same Celtic fans who tell us Strachan does have to go, despite never having lost the title so shamefully (and to a bigger spending Rangers side currently unlike O'Neill who had the pauper McLeish to deal with), and who has only lost 5 home league games in 3 seasons and counting.


Yet, Haw Haw and his pals tell us, even if Strachan again wins the league he does have to go, because, err, he does!

But wait, we hear? Strachan's side don't score enough goals!

Well, over the 5 seasons, O'Neill's side averaged 2.48 goals per game, a figure brought down by a Larsson-less 2.24 goals/game in the ignominious 2004/05 season.

Strachan's side are currently averaging 2.7 goals per game this season, so once again the excuses make no sense.

I ask again, why didn't O'Neill have to go after the 04/05 embarrassment, and paltry goalscoring record, when Strachan does have to go after suffering no domestic humilaition and now putting out a side which equals anything O'Neill produced in terms of goals per game?

Probably because our team sheet now reads like a Scotland 'B' squad. Depressing stuff.

Yet it's getting results, and it's doing so in entertaining fashion, with plenty of goals...

YOU'RE the "depressing stuff".

I'll take the depressing 3 in a row and counting stuff any day of the week ya miserable torn face twat.



edit to add : no doubt YOU would rather the team looked like a Rep of Ireland B squad.