Just because someone has an opinion that conflicts with your own doesn't make it an 'untruth'.

You and Glasnot clearly have an issue with 'the TA', if there is such a thing. The Tartan Army, in my view, covers everyone supporting Scotland. But dont let that stop your tedious, stereotypical comments. Why you both spend so much time on this section of the board is beyond me but there ye go.

Aye totally true , you can add Makoluinas to that list tae im guessing he will be celebrating recent wins over Romania and Austria , why there on here so often i dont know , probably just WUMS.

Very true. Irrelevant to this thread, but true.

When someone posts something factually incorrect, as you did, that does make it an untruth.

You'd better watch yourself. People like Jordo will be on accusing you of being lazy and using stereotypes - for which you are incidentally. Being highly unimaginative is your worst crime of course.

He should just have said he was responding to complete and utter tripe coming from yourself.

I'm sure there was a thread on this board in which you were critising Coup for believeing 'friends back home' regarding Macedonia? Absolute double standards.

Another one performing with Frankie Boyle!

Dear, oh dear.

His failing was in believing "the word on the street" regarding matters of fact i.e. what the Macedonian authorities would do to those seeking home entrance. He believed some random punters over the Macedonian officials, something which backfired.

Whether someone likes the TA invasion is a matter not of fact, but of opinion. Think of it like someone saying "I don't like Oasis". (you can pick either the juice or the band here if you like). Comprende?

I like the song - when there are a couple of thousands away in Italy or the likes it can really make the home support take note. I just wonder if the away fans actually know the song? is it exclusive to UK if so it would be quality as there is so many words and everyone knows all the words.

Imagine if Ross County away fans started singing it...

Very true, although maybe you should practise what you preach.



So is it okay for you to make negative, pointless comments such as these, but not for me (or anyone else) to make negative comments about the TA?

The Lithuania comment was good, though, lololololololol.

Sorry and Sorry but it is very annoying reading tripe from yous about Scotland all the time , its not like your criticising your country , your taking the piss out of it.

Why does that remotely matter to you? The 'wha's like us' attitude of some of the Tartan Army deserved to have the "piss" taken out of it. Makes up for the piss they leave in fountains all over the world. To see ourselves as others see us is not high on the TA's list of things to do, seemingly.

And why does this remotely matter to YOU.

Jesus not another one. Football fans can misbehave, some even act like idiots, shock horror. What is the world coming to eh?

Think we get it now, someone wake me up when theres something posted thats actually worth responding too

A lot of football fans have got it into their heads that football songs need to be intimidating

I don't go to football matches to intimidate anyone, I go to enjoy it. Singing doe-a-deer is a great laugh, and thats all I seek to take out of it. I quite frankly couldn't care if the opposition supporters think we're pansies

Were you behind the goals for the penalties at the Arbroath v ICT game ?

the answer to the orginal post is the doe a deer was 1st
sung in switzerland in the euro qualifer in 95 when it finished
1 - 1... ok...

It's quite amazing isn't it?

I've not dropped in on here for a wee while, but when I do it's the same auld characters spouting the same auld tired pish. The obsession really would be a brilliant case study.

Glasnost has already been on the TA Board and disappeared shortly before he joined up here because he was found out as being a boring, repetitive, TA bashing, German diddy team supporting lefty, who hardly ever spoke about anything other than Celtic and beating up former East German clubs fascist fans, sound familiar?

No idea about H_B, but he seems to have issues as well. Makalounas just seems to be a simple Jambo fud. All we need is that Partick Thistle eejit and Ron Burgundy to make up the familiar troupe.

Still, at least it keeps them off the streets and fills at least some part of their sad, empty lives.

Oh, and I don't like Do Ri Me.

Wasn't through for that game.

That would hold more water if it wasn't for the constant carping amongst near enough every Scotland fan about "how much better they are than England".



Yep, we're the ones that are being abusive. Do you have anything constructive to say?

Incidentally, I don't mind Doe A Deer. I remember Heart of Midlothian FC had a version of it in the 1997/98 season which was quite good.

This is a subject that keeps me awake at night. I'm glad someone had raised it.

Aye just that they 2 lads obviously couldnt give a shit about what the home fans thought.

[/quote]



"Near enough every Scotland fan"? Interesting. How many do you know? Speaking for myself and the group of friends I go to games with, nobody gives a sh!t about what England do.

Of course if you can provide evidence of your claim I'll be happily proved wrong. My guess though is that its simply more predictible bullsh!t from you.

Yeah, hang on while I break out the poll results.

You're being quite childish here. No-one with any self respect would argue that Scotland fans don't obsess over England.

You said that 'near enough every scotland fan....'. You said that, I simply pointd out that its a ridiculous thing to suggest. Yes Im sure theres a large number that do, they are after all our biggest rivals, but to suggest that almost all do.....!!

Let the obsession go mate. Move on with your life. Theres a number of reasons why I dislike the OF fans, I dont howver feel the need to go on a football messageboard and tell everyone.

And this opinion your basing your argument on is from 'your friend in other cities'? Pure pish.






I suppose you would have had first hand experience of the riotous Scotland fans when they went over to Tokyo and trashed the place, yeah? Oh, wait a minute...

Pure pish.

So, have you grasped yet the difference between fact and opinion, or do we need to delve into that further?

Which part of this are you having difficulty with incidentally?

You are aware that there are countries elsewhere in the world, which have cities and inhabitants? Have you ever been further thann Banff?

His comment was about the fact that your views are based on secondry information. That your 'friends', who I doubt exist, had a bad experience of the tA, told you all about it and as a result you felt you needed to come on here and tell us all about it. Thats my opinion, which im entitled to

And? Who exactly would you suggest is better qualified to comment on the local's eye view of an army "invasion" than err, a local?

By fuck army "soldiers" are thick.



It's called an alternative viewpoint, to an oft peddled myth that the "soldiers" trot out consistently, that the TA are in some way loved worldwide.

Several people on this site have exposed this for the lie that it is. Believe it or not, but several thousand boozed up punters in kilts and glengarrys can be a total pain in the arse to the local punters going about their business.

And I'm really not sure either of you have grasped the difference between fact and opinion, which is a little embarrassing.

Good lord, how thick are you? At least do me the benefit of not paraphrasing what I said. If you can quote me using the word riotous or trashing, then I'll hold my hand up, but I didn't. The Daily Retard and the TA have a self-serving agenda, portraying themselves as a hilarious jolly japesters loved by all and sundry and welcomed with open arms wherever they go. Ask the Japanese fans what they thought of the "footsoldiers" who made that particular trip, and they'll respond with a mixture of bewilderment and heavenly patience.

For some reason you seem to have a problem with the radical view that locals may not appreciate the otherwise clockwork rail system being clogged up or fat, pisshead morons pissing in local monuments.

But god forbid anyone ever try to suggest that the TA are blinded by some kind of smug self-satisfaction.

Okay. Lots and lots of Scotland fans. Is that better? I'm really sorry, I'll try and pass your quality control tests in future.

As for this "obsession", I'd be interested in seeing what you're backing this up with. Go on, I had to back mine up. In what way am I obsessed with Scotland fans?

Thanks.



The number of posts you, and others, make regarding the fans rather than the actual team/football speaks volumes.

It's a horrible song sung by horrible people.

Interesting...

What FACT incidentally are you basing your arguement on? That you have some 'friends in other cities' that told you they hated the TA being over there? Well, ok. I'll play along.

I have friends also in other cities all over the world. They seem to contradict what your friends have said. They told me that most of the Scotland fans were great fun and that they enjoyed the experience immensly. That is, ofcourse, only their opinion.



Wow, what a moron.

Paraphrasing? Who's paraphrasing who here? Where did I say that you said the Scotland fans were riotous or trashed up the place? Your claim that Scotland fans 'piss in fountians all over the world' would suggest you have some sort of experience of unacceptable behaviour, and I was making reference to that. Idiot.

I love this arguement people who obviously have minimal knowledge of traveling with Scotland, like yourself, keep comming back to. 'EVERYONE LOVES THE TARTAN ARMY!' 'BEST SUPPORTERS IN THE LAND!' 'LOVED BY ALL AND SUNDRY WE ARE!' I don't care what the Daily Record writes, but I've never met a Scotland fan, at home or away, who preaches any of that bullshit. I have met Scotland fans who are proud of our reputation, and why not? Awards won would suggest we are entitled to be proud. However I really don't know if you know that many fans don't preach this and decide to ignore it anyway to suit your arguement, or if you actually believe that they do. And for that, I am sad for you.

'fat, pisshead morons pissing in local monuments'



That one sentance sums you up perfectly. Moron.

This is like Jack and Jill do internet posting.

The FACTual element of this thread, concerned the erroneous claim from jordo that Scotland's fans have awards to recognise their behaviour, whereas Celtic fans just decide amongst themselves. I have illustrated why that was total pish.

Your initial point, such that it was, concerned the fact you hasdn't heard any cities complaining. After pointing out to you that a city isn't an entity in itself, that wasn't surprising. I gave you an example of my Ljubljana based friends who didnt like the influx of pished Tartan clad people, as is their right.

Or is it? Need we establish at this point whether they do have a right to an opinion in variance with "TheTA are pure magic, so they are?" Well?



Ahh, progress. Super!

We now have the concept of opinion being applied. Excellent.

So, given that you now seem to understand what an opinion is, have you moved to the stage where you realise there are contrary opinions, both positive and negative possible?

I know that is perhaps optimistic, given we are moving in baby steps here, but I am going out on a limb and giving you the benefit of the doubt.

It's a nancy song sung by a bunch of girls.

It also features in the musical film The Sound of Music.

*pauses for round of applause*

For a start, no where in this thread have I said that Scotland fans are loved all round the world. So I'm not really that sure where you are plucking this 'TheTA are pure magic, so they are' idea from. However, don't let that stop you! Baby step one.

Secondly, regarding no complaints from 'cities' that the Scotland fans have visited, we are never going to agree on. You are basing your OPINION (which, for the avoidance of any doubt my friend, you are entitled to ) on a couple of 'friends' you apparently have in a city Scotland fans visited. Ofcourse, not everyone enjoys tourists. However, on all of the Scotland trips I have been to the locals have had a great time interacting with the Scotland fans, and I have never heard of any bad press whilst, or after I was there. Come to mention it, even the trips I haven't been to I've not heard of any problems with the Scotland fans (except for possibly Ukraine, which has already been discussed in length on this board.) Baby step two.

And finally, perhaps people like yourself and others on this board could give the same old pish arguements a rest. Always the same 'TA smug self-satisfaction', 'Imagine wearing the national dress to a Scotland game, disgrace' and a personal favourite of mine, 'Shame on Scotland' arguements that show a lot of people up to be absoultley clueless about what they are arguing about.

That would be one fucker of a baby step three.

Well said cs

Every song the Tartan Army sing is embarrassing.

Says the man with a signature of 'Hibsbollah!!! Im embarassed for you mate.

CS hit the nail on the head. Every comment from the 'TA haters' on this thread are based on secondry information. Whereas other peoples opinions, including my own, are based on actually travelling abroad with Scotland. Crazy stuff eh.

Now boys, try to come up with something worth debating before you respond.

Best post ever. It's a wonder you still know how to breathe and all that. I admit it, you are great.

"Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!"

I am not a big fan of the song. But lets be honest its just a fucking song and worce has probibly been sung at ever club in scotland, hardly a national outcry as it is made out to be on here.

Well done on highlighting the word opinion in that. However you are incorrect. It is factual that people in cities Scotland have visited did not enjoy the experience, given the fact I know people who did not.

It would only be opinion had I, or they, suggested the TA were fannies. That is a subjective opinion.



Uh huh. The locals who chose to do so I presume. Not the ones who did not.



I'm not sure of the relevance of this paragraph. Are you expecting people to take out a two page advert in the local press to complain about their town centre being overrun with tartan clad morons?

As I have said before, I would be furious of Falkirk town centre was somehow the beneficiary of an invasion from 5,000 of these characters. Can't think of anything worse to be honest.



It's actually the opposite. The tired arguments are from those who do not accept why people don't like them abroad. It's like the office japester who can't understand why they never get invited to the Friday pints after work, because they try too hard and no one actually likes them.



I have never said any of these three things, so of total irrelevance to me.

Uh huh.

Ah for f**k sake. This is like talking to a two year old. Can't be arsed anymore, final post.

Where did I say that everyone enjoyed Scotland fans visiting their citys?

'The locals who chose to do so'? Oh my God.

'I'm not sure of the relevance of this paragraph....' Well you seem pretty certian that people from cities around the world hated the Scots being there, including your pals abroad. That is, ofcourse, if they actually exist. But that's not the point. I'm sure there would have been someone bursting at the seams to expose it, one way or another. Jim Pansy certianly felt it was necessary to tell us all of Scotland fans pissing in fountians, which he has never seen, or heard of, or anything, really.

'As I have said before, I would be furious...' Not really much substance to this statement, seeing as Scotland would normally be playing in cities and not towns, where most of the areas for pubs and clubs would be in the center away from most residential areas.

'It's actually the opposite...' Dear oh dear. Wrong. You see the thing is, Scotland fans will continue to travel the world to support their team, have a good time and make friends when abroad. You, you will sit in front of a computer, bitching about how the Scotland fans claim to have this 'wha's like us?' mentality and continue to do so until you feel better about yourself. No, my friend, it is people like you who spout the same old pish in every single argument, and I'm done.

Total irrelevance to you? So, you have never said or implied you feel the TA have a, to use a JP quote here, smug self-satisfaction? Pish.

Err, you said "I've not heard of any city that has complained after a Scotland trip in the years I've travelled."

Now, given that we had to waste time discussing that a city isn't an entity in itself, have we now established that the reception of a Scotland football "army invasion" is mixed?



What is difficult to understand here?

If 5,000 Scotland fans came to Falkirk, I would choose to order in a Dominos and watch a DVD, rather than go into town. Likewise, Slovenians who didn't fancy mixing with the TA in Preseren Square didn't choose to do so!



Others have posted their own, or acquaintances, experiences of other cities. I can only comment on Slovenia, which is what I have done. If you search this forum you will see other posters with similar accounts from other cities.



I live in the centre of Falkirk.



Indeed they will. They will also continue to piss off locals.



Oh, we have moved from said, to implied now have we? How convenient.

You yourself wish to deny any association with the "loved throughout the world" tag, yet wish to, through implication, ascribe the "smug, self satisfaction" tag to me.

Breathtaking hypocrisy!

Rather than take a hissy fit and leave the thread, you could have avoided all this gnashing of your teeth by answering the simple question in the affirmitive, namely :-

"When the TA visit a city abroad, are they enjoyed by some and despised by some"?

It is the refusal to acknowledge this obvious truth that bemuses so many of us. There are aspects of Scotland fans' behavour abroad that people don't like, both from here and abroad.

The belief that drinking your own bodyweight in beer is somehow to be applauded being one of them.

Urawa City centre, Saitama-ken, after the Kirin Cup final game.

You haven't been to Japan, know anyone in Japan or are even aware of where Japan is on a map.

Stop telling lies.

Absolutely. Just like every other group of football supporters. Well done, you sad, pathetic little man.

Reading through this thread you can see why pub arguments decend into violence.

How may times can you argue the same trivial point before you just think 'this is pointless' I would rather kick f**k out this idiot as it would give me a joyful feeling. The internet probably saves peoples lives.