In the wake of the 4-0 pumping of St Johnstone, I, like many of my fellow Thistle fans, started to get a bit carried away and even entertained the notion that we might, just might, win the league this season. However, having regained my composure and taken a minute to think about each game in turn, I see us finishing no higher than fourth in the league.

Let's look at the evidence:

Queens Park - comfortable enough victory, nothing more to add.

Dunfermline Athletic - although we probably matched Dunfermline on the day, we certainly didn't look much better than them. We rode our luck at times and won the match due to a McKeown wonder strike.

Forfar - struggled against last season's bottom feeders.

Airdrie United - outplayed during the first half and quite a bit of the second. A great goal on the break saw us nick the points.

Peterhead - another struggle against lower league opposition.

Queen of the South - some fans say we played our best football so far at Palmerston, yet we couldn't beat one of the teams who've been tipped for the top.

St Johnstone - a hammering, but does the scoreline tell the full story? St Johnstone's centre half was suffering from viral meningitis, the opposition manager got his team selection completely wrong and we scored three great/flukey goals. Felt great at the time, but I no longer view it as that much of an achievement.

Dundee - wasn't there, but, by all accounts, they've been no great shakes.

Ross County - woeful. Enough said.

Livingston - again, I don't view the win at Almondvale as anything special. Livi are currently punching above their weight and we huffed and puffed for much of the match. Professional job, but that's about it.

Clyde - played well during two ten-minute spells, but were pretty poor for the other 70. Again, relied on something of a wonder goal from a midfielder.

The County and Clyde games showed how quickly we run out of ideas when faced with opponents who play a high-tempo pressing game.

Our strikers, to use a popular phrase, don't appear to be able to score in a barrel of fannies, with our most dangerous looking attacker relegated to the bench in favour of a player that's bottled at least four one-on-ones, while more and more errors are creeping into the play of our backline.

It's correct to say we're better than we were under Campbell, but there's still a hell of a lot of work to be done before we can consider ourselves serious contenders.

I fear we're in for a pummeling from Rangers, our assault on the title will begin to falter once the midfield and defence run out of goals and the deterioration of the pitch as the season wears on will see us resort to the long ball game - a style of play we're simply not equipped for.

The fact I've just returned from my first day at work may have contributed to my rather sombre mood, but it something that's been eating away at me for the past few weeks.

Drama Queen!

And that wee fat bloke's the manager ! now that does make it serious.

Calm Down Dear!

Buchanan's coming back.

We're not ready for the title, but we'll do okay.

Care to swap predicaments?

No guarantee he'll be the same player he was prior to his injury, plus he's another midget striker. His return doesn't negate our lack of creativity in midfield our strengthen of backline.

I'm not prepared to settle for 'okay'. We've played most of the teams in the league now and none of them look anything special. The fact we haven't looked as if we'll top them come May says all you need to know about us.

That right Nizzy. We're doing so well because the opposition's actually crap.

My concern is the youthful forward line that's been outgunned by the antiques roadshow at the back for goals. That has to change.

The QoS loss was down to two moments of stupidity. For all the Doonhamers' endeavour they skied every shot they had around the goal apart from the freebies Thistle handed out.

I don't think 'we're' in for a pummelling from the Mankie Mob. I don't think 'we'll' take a pummelling from anyone this season. That said, Ian McCall's Thistle is a couple of hundred country miles away from the SPL and will, in my view, still be there in May.

If people get carried away then hell mend them. The weight of their expectations will strangle them, and you and I have been around the block often enough to know what that does to a team and its supporters, don't we?

We certainly have, old bean.

I'd like to believe we'll be up there at the end of the season and I am beginning to sound like an opposition supporter making excuses for their latest poor performance, but I really can't shake the feeling that we're not very good.

At the start of the season i actually thought the league standard had risen. Now i'm willing to admit i was kidding myself. We are all shite.

Save that for the end of the season and enjoy the trip instead of fretting, okay? You'll have your head in your hands* just as often as you'll be on your feet cheering. You're a Jags fan, for god's sake.







*The statistics so far don't bear this out but never mind.

ok nizzy what would you suggest we do?

is mccall the man for the job?

imo, we are doing fine, not spectacular and by no means the finnished article. we have a good squad with quality throughout and playing some nice stuff at times. calm down mate, no one says we will win the league, but we will have a right good say in who does.

I've only seen one game thus far but beating Dundee, St J and Dunfy isn't to be sniffed at, especially if we're 'not playing well'- I don't think we'll win the league either, but then again I didn't think that until about January in 2002.

It's the fact I don't think we're capable of playing that much better that worries me. I missed the Queens game, which, as I've said, has been hailed as one of our better performances of the season.

This league's frying my brain.

Someone needs a hug.

Calm down Nizzy. It wouldn't be the Thistle way if we didn't have moments of genius and moments of stupidity!

The two appear more often than not to be incompatible.

Christ, I wouldn't advise anyone to start a thread were their club is the main point of focus (as opposed to themselves) or Dublinjag might deride it as a dirge.

I don't believe we're particularly good. Fans of other teams, based on what they've seen of us and the other teams in the division might think differently. It's a discussion open to all.

Not really.

Gary Harkins personifies Thistle at the moment for me.

Just wait till he "ghosts" 4 Morton players before playing a 50 yard cross-pitch pass to no one when someone was in space 5 yards away.

Horses for courses, as they say.   We're only 6 games into the season.  It's anybody's guess who'll win the league.  Especially this  league ...

I recently worked out where Gary gets his nickname. It's quite good actually.

There's no standout team in this league. If we had managed 6 points from County and Clyde I'd have been pretty confident about our chances, but we only got one, which is pretty rubbish.

No fans in the league seem to be saying they think they'll win it. On one hand I don't think we're good enough, but on the other I don't think there's anyone much better.

I'll second that. Which leads us to the *question of which club looks like it could hold water in the SPL if it was promoted.



(*I think we can go back to that one after the new year.)

That might just about sum it up. But doesn't that mean the team that wins the league is only there because the others are so lousy?

Could a moderator ban this smiley please? PLEASE

Because they didn't. There's only so much reasoned debate I can have with someone so evidently lacking in possession of the facts before I snap.

Smiley minimalism in general please is my thing, Mr Arch. One smiley per post. Maybe two, max. Posting 4 smileys at the end of a sentence, especially the same one, marks one out as a bit dim.

I've got snacks.

There's a new smiley minimalist in town. I think I've probably used less than 10 smiley's since I've started posting here. That's dedication to the trade.

Those who think smiley's give them personality couldn't be more wrong.

Let's go to work.

I, however, might be.

Nah I'll put your overuse of that smiley down to the naivety of youth. You're like 14/15, yeah?

It harms my eyes.

NIZZY--- YOU ARE A BALLOON

FPS.

All Dublin Jag's posts seems to have disappeared. Hmm

He's rather heavily quoted in this thread.

Mcall must go!

Bring back Campbell, all is forgiven!

FTJ.

I think the scoreline was fair enough. You gave us not a sniff of goal ourselves and totally dominated the match in midfield. You can only beat what is put in front of you as they say so whilst McInnes did get his selection badly wrong, the way your midfield took advantage of that should be a positive. Rutkiewicz had a nightmare clearly (and now understandably) but I'm not sure that contributed too much to the result as it was second balls falling for the set pieces that killed us.

The worry would be, and I've picked it up in other threads, that your strikers didn't really have a field day despite the midfield's control. That seems to be a recurring theme and it'll be interesting to see how long McCall sticks by Lennon. Did you think you could just follow your Rocco Quinns, Greg Camerons and Calum Elliots in showing that selection for the Scotland U21 squad is dependant on who you play for? Quinn and Cameron, for example, were in the squad long before Kevin McDonald or James McArthur and even though he's not had the best start to this season, the exclusion of Jackson (now an U21 internationalist for the Republic) in favour of Elliot is an insult.

Thistle seem quite one dimensional in attack with Donnelly and Roberts both similar players and Gray and Lennon likewise, with a clear lack of a more physical option. Last season Dundee didn't have a real striking threat until January though and still kept themselves in touch at the top.

The Spectre of the Scarlett Pimpernel looms, yet again ...

And the fact that your "Hmm" suggests you are even thinking about why, speaks volumes. Like-minded types only, eh? Instant censorship! It's just a fitba' forum pal, lighten up. The wider the variety of contributors, the better.

Plus, we're Thistle fans. We don't take it THAT seriously.

Leave that to Jagsforum.net where people are obviously more easily offended, especially when their authority is challenged. Having said that, if regular use of the Guinness smiley really bothers you, I'll refrain if it makes you feel better?

Into the bargain, even their admin man suggested I would be better-served here on P&B. Now there's a man who knows his acorns ...

Me, heavily quoted?   Doubt it. That accolade is usually bestowed upon people of impeccable character, insight and knowledge like --

Targetmen seem pretty hard to come by at this level. Dunfermline did well picking up Bayne, but had to pay 30k, which we couldn't afford. St Johnstone went to England for Holmes. O'Connor's unattainable. There don't seem to be any good targetmen in the 2nd division or the 3rd.

If Buchanan reaches old form, then one of the other 4 should be good enough to form a dangerous partnership for the 1st


We're like two peas in a pod, Dublinjag. Sometimes it scares me how alike we are.

Ah yes, the old chestnut.  Damning with faint praise. Now we might be getting somewhere. Nothing quite like a sense of irony. It could astound all and sundry.

On a more serious note, what's McCall's secret game-plan likely to be for the Huns match a week tomorrow? Is he plotting a mighty downfall or is it "just go out and give it your best shot, lads".

That game still pisses me off, big-time. They were there for the taking and we were playing quite well, even at 2-0 down, but that penalty miss just killed it stone-dead. Made me think, there and then, if we can't score from the spot, we're knackered. And we were.

I might as well have gone straight down to Munn's Vaults for a 50p Moonshine. Harkins was an eye-opener, tho'. A breed apart. He's gone if we don't go up this season ...

Can see where you are coming for Nizzy and I do share some of your concern however I feel the positives so far this season way outstrip the negatives.

We have a midfield who IMO are amongst the best in the division in terms of talent but in terms of consistency they have a lot of work to do, especially Harkins.

We still have a very good defensive record and there is no reason to see that not continue, although a couple of injuries/suspensions would be a danger. Our two wingbacks have not really performed to their capabilities in a while now, mainly Twaddle who should be a bigger threat down the left. Paton continues to put decent balls in to the box and personally think he looked a bit more solid defensively on Saturday but his useless left foot is very concerning.

And then up front is where I do have the biggest concern. I think Gray is the only striker to have scored a league goal for us this season, and even then he has only scored one. Lennon hasn't done it so far, Donnelly continues to hold the ball up and link up the play very well but never looks like scoring whilst I have only seen glimpses of Roberts so can't really comment. Personally I would say we have to try Donnelly and Gray again, just because they look the most likely to create and score goals. Hopefully then when Buchanan is back he has not lost too much of what made him so dangerous last year, although I suspect people's expectations of him currently far outweigh what talent he actually has.

And then onto form. From what I have seen in the league we pretty much have the exact amount of points that I think we deserve and with that keeping us only 2 behind the leaders is obviously a good start. However our last two games where winnable, especially after beating Dunfermline, Dundee and Airdrie before them, and we only got 2 points. I think it is fair to say the next 6 games could determine our season(Morton, Livi, Dundee, Dunfermline, St Johnstone, QotS).

From what I have seen of this division so far, no team has looked good tbh all of pretty much the same standard, except for St Johnstone who were shocking against us although I fully expect them to improve. In fact I would say the best side I have seen would be Ross County, who in the first half against us before the red card were excellent, however I don't expect them to be as good the next time we play. I didn't think we would win the league from the offset and would have been happy with top half but I do believe we can win the thing, however I can also see Dundee, Dunfermline, QotS, St Johnstone, Livingston and maybe even Airdrie winning the league.


God that went on a lot longer than I thought and I doubt anyone will even read it but Nizzy I say I agree with most of your concerns but suggest every team in this division has similar problems to us.

Do you mean the game we drew at Ibrox or the game we had a penalty and a number of chances at Firhill where if one had gone in it would have totally changed the game?

Correction, yeah, the replay.  I forgave them for drawing at Castle Greyskull because that's all in a typical Thistle season and the club got the bonus of a replay. But the replay was a sickener to watch.   Skippy Weir punting the ball aimlessly up the middle, short-arse Burke pretending to look good scurrying down the right and Novo muff-diving all over the place. An inneffectual bunch.

But I'm confident enough we'll definitely win something this season.   Scottish Cup aside, it's going to be, in priority, promotion, the Challenge Cup or the League Cup. I've a sneaking suspicion McCall will currently be working heavily in training with the strikers on sharpness up front and deciding how best to use at least four of them over the 90. Gimme more of those screamers v St J and the Chaplain rocket v Clyde. That's how we'll nail them. First time shots. No fancy stuff ...     

We actually look at our most dangerous when we play the 'fancy stuff'. It's a pity we can't seem to maintain that over the course of a game.

Yeah, it's eyesight to the blind when we're stringing passes together but when we get into that final third, it's time to give them the bullet. The screamers v St J and Chaplain's v Clyde are cases in point. It has to be the area where McCall is working hardest in training right now?

And we ain't gettin' that bunch o' clodhoppin' under-achievers in a cup game for the third time in consecutive seasons for nothing. A win against them early in the season is exactly what the players need at this stage.  A massive boost and an indication of our ability to go all the way if not in the cup, then certainly the league.

And I'll say it again. If the vocalists don't improve - compared to the replay last season - we'll be doing the players a massive disservice. You've seen Sir Alex geeing up his fans before games as he walks to the dugout. He knows they get smug and complacent because they've won so much. As loud as f**k for as long as f**k ... I mean it. Just like The Shed of the 70s always was. And when we're not singing the words to anything else, just give it "gerrintaethem, gerrintaethem". Or "Thistle, Thistle, Thistle team, Thistle, Thistle team". Over and over again before another rendition of "Hello, Hello" springs to mind ...

Make those Blue Nosed Knuckle Draggers sit up and listen and just watch our players respond. McCall has already said how vital it is. Noise, noise and more noise. All the way. We're too co-dependent these days on the vocals front. We only seem to re-act if there's a flash of brilliance. Just keep singing ... it does exactlty what it says on the tin.

If I had anything to do with it, I'd strategically place a few microphones and link them up to the new PA speakers in the JH stand. Why not? It's hardly an incitement to riot, is it?

A nice long fishing trip from Nizzy I think.