FFS, I better just bookmark it.

Yes it is. You're guilty of conflating race with nationality and racism with xenophobia. You're polluting the Queen's English by cross pollinating different definitions with the sole goal of seeking out the greatest offence.
Race has its basis in characteristic visible differences emanating from small differences in genetic information. You can't change your race even if you suffer from some illness or condition which changes your skin colour.

You can change your religion and your nationality. The former is about beliefs. The others about affilition to an arbitrary geopolitical entity. Ultimately, they man made artificial constructs.

That's just a tautology. You've not advanced a single point there. You can't justify your erroneous interpretation of a phenomena by saying that it's old. Furthermore, in the case of the Irish, much of the Irish community is well integrated into Scottish society and that includes those from the North and the South.

Are you telling me that as Ireland's geographic boundaries changed a brand new race was instantly born rather than a nation. Did some people instantly become a different race.

Your comparisons are bizarre. You're trying to find the greatest offence available, rather than possible.

Why do you want to feel persecuted or at least pretend you are? I certainly hope that you're at the wind up.

Who's doing this disgusting thing to rape victims? It seems a rather dramatic analogy that you're drawing. Have you suffered from an act like rape? Or were you just on the end of a football chant in the context of a heated derby with two way abuse? It's a circus. A pantomime.
Are you calling me a racist? That seems a particularly idiotic respnse given I have said nothing that can be interpreted as racist. I've merely asked questions about definitions.

You seem to be looking to be offended. This seems to be a common trend amongst Celtic fans particularly since there are so many behind this desire to distort meanings and get your rivals into trouble.

I recently read about a couple of Celtic fans comparing themselves with Rosa Parks and African American slaves. I find it offensive that you genuinely think that Celtic fans are persecuted by pervasive conspiracy of bigots who treat you like slaves or second class citizens.

I've never met a real Irishman that feels that way. They've all struck me as rational balanced individuals by comparison. I know of no Catholics who suffer discrimination at all, let alone the extent that you purport.

The Celtic fans I know in real live do not share your obsession. What is it about the online Celtic fan that makes him feel so persecuted? Is it because he spends so much time on sites filled with ignorant debate about imagined injustices? Is it because he searches for online footage of things which offend him or more likely score a point over their rivals, possibly even getting some harm.

Race is something visible and permanent which can be used against you racists who know nothing other than how you look. National identity is rarely as obvious except when you consider national dress. Does the online Celtic fan walk around with in some recognisable sign of Irish identity. Religion is on a similar level. It's invisible to the man in the street unless you're clergymen.

Whether you're genuinely deluded and offended or at the wind up or even trying to get your rivals punished in some way whilst vilifying them, then you can only cause more hate on your on side as well as your rivals.

I think we should all calm down and look at the real evidence that Catholics and Irish are not disadvantaged in modern Scotland. There may be some bigots, but by peddling such views, you can only spread more hatred and make people more entrenched on both sides.

At the end of the day, we're all people living in the same country and more hatred will only bring more harm to everyone and our nation. Nobody really want's our terraces totally sanitised but Celtic fans have been as guilty as anyone when causing offence in various areas such as race, sectarianism, offensive chants about dead people and prayers for people to die with bullets from terrorists. That's recent and right up there with any other chant including the Billy Boys.

In conclusion, distorting things for greatest offence and vilification can only have a negative effect on our society. We need to take some perspective and realise we're talking about a game that has some historical baggage on both sides, neither of which have anywhere near removed or disgarded. Somethings just get shoved out side the stadium Just make sure it's not the hatred that goes there too. That's when it really costs, as fans and players on both sides can attest.

Jesus titty fucking Christ! just when I thought we got rid of one boring b*****d (THE HUN) in steps another one , with an even more potent form of verbal chloroform,I look forward to ignoring everything you have to say ....sol
PS If you must pull people up for grammar/spelling you may want to run a spell check before you post your respnse

In responding by pointing out one typo in an admittedly long post, you have tacitly admitted you cannot refute the points.

No he hasn't, he has quite rightly pointed out that you are a boring c**t and that post he was referring to was particularly boring. You sir are a twat, i think this may be my last word on this subject.

So still my points stand unrefuted.

Pity about your spelling.

How pathetic and un-original. You must be feeling brave having come out of hiding after the old firm game. Go back to where you came from!

There was nothing wrong with the post you quoted and previously there was one typo in a very long post.

Again, nobody can refute my points.

Strange how nobaody seems willing or able to counter my arguments, then.

I wouldn't refute your last post, with the exception of the anti-Irish apologism. Having trawled through this thread (why the f**k do I ever come onto this part of the forum), I can say that the rest of your posts are pretty awful.

And to compare the revolting content of the Famine song with the Fields is plain obtuse.

Beyemystic and the other plastics see persecution and victimhood wherever they look. Unfortunately, in the case of that Famine song, they are quite right. It's vile.

I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as Celtic fans, "I pray you die in your sleep with a bullet from the IRA" or songs which mock mental illness.

I haven't apologised for anything. I'm merely pointing out that both songs are broadly on a par in this particular context. Celtic fans have their dirge about how the Brits are all oppressors and the Rangers fans came up with a light hearted ditty about the famine being over and it's time to move on.

The most disgusting thing about this is the warped mentality of the online Celtic fan who seeks to be offended and works himself up into a tizzy email all sorts of bodies who fob of his bizarre complaints. What a humourless bunch!

Or go home even.

Including child abuse references and the rest.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you're as bad as each other. The rest of Scotland stands by bemused at the collective unwillingness to "move on" as you say.

I've not heard any such lines being sung in that song. There is another well noted one, but were you equally outraged by Celtic supporters and others who used the same subject matter against Graham Rix and made false allegations of that ilk in relation to opposition players?

Why is it every team indulges in these forms of abusive songs, but we only hear about it when it's Rangers? Any honest observer can see that Rangers fans do not deserve to be singled out, but the obsessive delusional campaigns by Celtic fans who have been busy emailing UEFA, SFA, SPL, various police forces, papers, charities are the ones who have made an issue.

I think any mental health professional would see this bizarre behavour as a proven sign of mental illness and bigotry of the Celtic fan.

Grow up. In the wider context, songs aimed at winding up your rivals at a football match are small beer compared to the real racism that is suffered by those of different skin colours. The Celtic fans need to stop playing the victim card and pretending it's the 18th century, complete with social baggage. Nobody cares. They just look pathetic as they get repeated fob off letters from various sources.

I never said anyone had the moral high ground but it's certainly not Celtic fans or fans of any other game. It's ritual abuse. The problem is the clowns who are consumed by hatred and take it on to the internet and streets to spread it further.

The full lyrics were posted on this board only a few days ago.

Grow up? Hmmmm. I'm not the one posting verbose versions of "it's no fair"

The full version is never sung. It's one version and it doesn't match the lines quoted.

I'm only bringing a bit of perspective and balance to the matter. The "verbose" passage was in response to a flawed argument defining race in a bizarre manner.

Pity for you huns that the league trophy isn't won after the first old firm game.

Typical hun response. Glad i'm not Scottish if this attitude is still acceptable in Scotland.

It's ok for you, youre already nhome think of us poor cnuts...eh do you have any room in yer hoose?

Your dubious 'scientific' ideas about race have also been used against the Irish, let's not forget. Portrayed as apes and such, we supposedly fell below the superior Anglo-Saxon ideal in the minds of many racist commentators down the years.

Also some 19th Century proto-fascist invented the 'index of nigrecence' which showed the Irish to be closer to black people in the scheme of things.

I always flare my nostrils at this "you can't change your race" guff. It supposes that racism against blacks etc. is worse because "they can't help it" while those victims who the racists call "white" presumably could or should change to fit in. Its ludicrous:

Eg. Modern day "Fenians", "taigs" etc. are fortunate that, possibly due to miscegenation, they are now 'scientifically' eligible to join the ranks of their oppressors. All they must do is choose to become like them. . Excuse us if we don't bother.



But it is old - see the 1923 report The Menace of the Irish Race to our Scottish Nationality. See also Gerald of Wales' mid 12th Century bigoted rants against the Irish race. More recently Martin O'Neill diagnosed "racial and sectarian" hun abuse of Neil Lennon.

Ireland's geograpic boundaries have never changed. But large scale 'plantation' into the north east corner apparently caused some of the plantees to imagine themselves as a seperate race/nation.



Your post which started off poorly degenerated into foaming-mouthed drivel at this juncture.

Just because two forces might be in opposition does not mean that they are equal/symmetrical.

I often wonder whether huns' actively encourage the diddy fans' 'old firm' tag, perhaps because they feel it shields them from dealing with their own problems in isolation. The diddy's think they can wash their hands of 'sectarianism' by palming it off on the 'old firm', while, such is their hatred, the grubby huns are only determined to pull Celtic down with them.

Nice read. Ive listened to a non football supporter make odious sectarian comment about people under his charge while slagging Celtic and Rangers "sectarian" violence

Sectarianism requires two sides - you are both as bad as each other, whatever you and the perverse anti - mystic Gluteus Maximus may dress up your mutual antagonism and whataboutery as.

Perhaps you two should be forced into each others physical proximity, where, you would no doubt react violently to each other and, hopefully, cease to be.

Celtic PLC's happy acquiescence in allowing Martin Bain's slimy fizzog to act as joint spokesperson over the 5% surcharge gives more credence to the 'OF' tag than any endorsment that the Huns alone could give.

Which, of course, in your deluded and paranoid circles means that he was a Hun and out tae get yees.

You know, if any of you sanctimonious wankers would admit, just once, that your tacit support of terrorism and hatred of all things remotely British or Protestant has manifested itself as unacceptable violence and brutality on an admittedly smaller scale to your Orange counterparts, this country might, just might, be able to progress. AS it is, your smug and deluded superiority complexes leave those of us without a sectarian or nationalist angle to grind utterly bewildered.

Its not "tacit" its "in your imagination", hedgeboy!

No, was in my eardrums, plastic. Throwing primary one children through hedges may be a laughing matter to you (when the child on the receiving end is Scottish and Protestant obviously), but having my innocent ears sullied by your terrorist filth certainly wasn't

Unusual to have two equal sides





As I've said previously, the 5% decision was wrong, and underhand, one of the worse decisions made by our board to the ignored detriment of our support, and I'm NOT talking about the extra cash we need to fork out. It was only topped by allow that slimey cnut from a team that spent years discriminating against us being allowed to talk.act on our behalf. IF I'd have been in charge someone would be out of a job at Celtic park and minus their balls





Nope it was not a hun, he had no interesting football, rugby being his game I believe, however while not actiuvely discriminating against people he was supposed to be looking after he certainly abused him in an unacceptable manner.

Celtic as a club and it's supporters in general have always as far as I can see supported "home rule" in Ireland, I don't think there anything wrong with that. However I think the problem in Scotland while related to that, particularly since the 70's is much more deep rooted than that

...you'd have realised how deep - at boardroom level - in each others pockets you are and pretty much always have been. "A stern rivalry is a very paying proposition"

f**k Britian and all who sail on here


Scottish & Proud

Saor alba

As have thousands of Scots with no affiliation whatsoever to either Ireland or Celtic-myself included. But the truth is that every time anyone has the crassness to criticise either the RC church or Celtic's support of terrorism is branded a hun by many (not all) Celtic fans at least on this board.

Scotland's shame with regard to anti Catholic persecution is well documented and factual. The notion, however, that it still exists in a way that actually disenfranchises Irish Catholics or Scots of Irish Catholic descent in Scotland is beyond laughable.

Sadly though, it does not suit the agenda of the willfully paranoid to acknowledge that.

So what are these "deep roots" that you talk about? Are you seriously suggesting that there is a pogrom just waiting to happen against the Irish diaspora the minute Celtic takes its eye off the ball?

You're going to get awfy wet big man.....

Correct.

Absolutely correct.

Correct - and it was/is racist, which is all I was saying to the board's latest hun with keyboard diarrhoea.



So we're not "disenfranchised" but we ought to keep quiet because our views are "beyond laughable"?

On an individual basis, you are a completely ridiculous bufoon. Posting all that biographical, tear-strewn gubbins about something that may or may not have happened when you were five years old was naive in the extreme. How did you expect to avoid ridicule? Actually saying that your lifelong support for St. Mirren is an embittered response to Catholic five year olds?

If you think its a racist song, go along and listen to the wee guy singing it in Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow. Not one person complains about the song. No go away and grow up

They're beyond laughable because they're utterly fantastic and paranoid. Pitiable would be more accurate. Your logic appears to be that in spite of the fact that this isn't happening we should still be crying bitter tears of regret because it once did, or simpering away about how dreadful the deal of the modern day Scots/Irish Catholic is when that is patent shite.

Personal insults are fine by me plastic, particularly when coming from you (buffoon has two f's by the way, just for future reference). But just to clarify, that personal example was given simply to illustrate that Celtic fans were capable of mindless violence too. Surely if I had an embittered response it would be to follow follow der Hun, who were the team of choice at my primary school? A plague on both your houses.

You seem to think that I was attempting to solicit pity or an audition for Jeremy Kyle. All I was trying to point out was that when I was growing up in the South Side, sectarian violence of every degree was as natural as mother's milk, as soon as we ended up in segregated schools.

Correct.

To be perfectly honest I know a lot of Catholics who find the views of the Catholic Church ''beyond laughable''.

I am assuming the 'we' you used was in reference to your Catholicism and not your support of Celtic.

Aiden McGeady and Neil Lennon have recently been attacked in the street and a fellow named Patrick McBride was kicked to death in the streets following the Old Firm games last season. In fact, these matches always occasion beatings and murder, but such 'sectarianism' is sadly anything but equal.

Pretending that it is equal, or subsuming it all under ordinary crime, is pernicious because it obscures the true picture and impedes any corrective measures.



Yes, now I see that it all balances out.

I bet those five year olds were in the IRA, and Boruc recently gave some huns the finger so lets allow 'the other side' carte blanche for continued shameful racism, violence, murder....

Aiden McGeady and Neil Lennon have recently been attacked in the street and a fellow named Patrick McBride was kicked to death in the streets following the Old Firm games last season. In fact, these matches always occasion beatings and murder, but such 'sectarianism' is sadly anything but equal.


Thank you for pointing out that the majority of the crimes are committed by Rangers fans. But as your so keen to point out, you onlymake up 16% per cent of this lovely country. So surely You should only commit 16% of the crimes, i wonder if the figures match

When was McGeady attacked? And how did McBride's attackers know he was a Catholic?

You are correct though that these games are a nightmare for all emergency workers. It is a shame that Old Firm fans cannot behave themselves like normal human beings after a match.

I would argue that 99% can. There is STILL no evidence that McGeadys attackers were Rangers Fans. As evidenced on this board, most people cant stand him. Although i would agree they most likely were.

McGeady was not attacked in the street. He and a couple of other Celtic players were caught up in an incident at a club called Bamboo. I think it was Scott Brown and Darren O'Dea that were the other players there. Either that or have I missed something?

If my memory serves me correctly, Brown was the one that was assaulted.

When was McGeady attacked? Is this recent?

I feel quite sorry for OF players in a way. They are always going to be the target of bigots and general aresholes whilst out in town, as proven by the high profile Lennon and Ferguson incidents.

Utter twisted bollocks plastic.

The scum that attacked McGeady and Lennon are criminals who broke not only laws on violence, but laws against religious hatred, surely corrective measures instituted by the state? As individuals they can and should be held accountable.Those that killed Patrick McBride are sectarian motivated murderers who should be locked away for life. If there are more attacks by Rangers fans or anti Catholic bigots, then more of them should be charged and jailed. There is no apologist here pretending that it is a scorecard that should be in balance. It should be 0-0 at full time. Believe you me, my contempt for that kind of mentality is every bit as strong as yours is. Just because I am neither Irish nor Catholic matters not one iota.

Your sarcasm does you no credit whatsoever. It appears that you are more interested in maintaining your own view of your victimhood, rather than the reality that children and adults are and have been attacked for being Protestant as well as Catholic. Until you can reconcile that violence in and of itself is unacceptable in this context, you are forever condemned to support the status quo.

You have accused me of being a buffoon and, in previous threads, a Hun. That's fine, because in your case, any form of disagreement brooks no compromise. The real truth is that you are unable to accept that a thug is a thug regardless of nationality or religious background.

Actually, ask any policeman in the wsst of Scotland and he will tell you that there is more violence when Celtic lose, probably due to them seeing the defeat in a sporting context as an expression of racial, religious and nationalistic supremacy.

Rangers players have also been attacked and just this weekend, McGregor's car was vandalised for the second time in months, Novo and others have been threatened, and Barry Ferguson is regularly targetted despite marrying a Catholic girl of Irish descent and sending his kids to Catholic schools. He's Rangers through and through which deems him to be a bigot, ironically in the eyes of bigots, despite the facts to the counter that delusion.

The most serious attack of the OF weekend was an assault on a young Rangers fans at a train station. He suffered a broken jaw as well as sectarian abuse.

People need to stop kidding on that one side is the perpetrator and their own side is exclusively the victim. It's just propaganda and lies.

And yet your response to the understandable upset of Celtic fans and the Irish consulate over a song that is xenophobic and utterly repugnant is to compare it with an old Irish folksong?

Jesus.