Personally, I think our language is rich enough to maintain the difference between racism and xenophobia, without confusing the two in some semi-literate way.

However, if we're going to say that the famine song is anti-Irish and racist, then you'll have to put The Fields of Athenry into the anti-British and racist category too.

You can't have it both ways. You can't mangle definitions and standards to favour one side.

Which part of the song is racist?

Which one?

However, if we're going to say that the famine song is anti-Irish and racist, then you'll have to put The Fields of Athenry into the anti-British and racist category too.

Shut up ya stupid hun bassa, you're the bigot!

Ha ha ha ha ha

The whole song is dripping in anti-British sentiment, most clearly in the words, " Against the famine and the crown
I rebelled".

Is this clear anti-British sentiment racist too, or is that lable only used when misapplied to a rival set of fans.

I smell hypocrisy.

here are the lyrics:




Tricky for me to see the racist bits - but maybe you'll enlighten us.

The british crown is not a race unless David Icke is right about the illuminati

I think its a great song about how people can get such comfort even when they are faced by oppresion.

I've already done so. See above.

Is this vilification of the British in any way more acceptable than the stuff certain hypocritical and delusional Celtic fans are complaining about?

The crown is used to symolise Britain and the British, as proven by constant references to "they" rather than "it".

Shut up ya p***k. It's a bloody song about oppression and a terrible crime perpetrated by a colonial power. Now can you please go away and try to get a fucking life!

Someone seems to have lost both her temper and the argument.

Nice to see you continuing that vilification of the British.

Would it not be better to avoid such racism and stick to football songs?

It's a maudlin pub song. If you're offended by it you've got a problem.

Who said I'm offended? I'm only holding these ambulance chasing, professional complainers to their own standard.

Stick to what people say, instead of making it up as you go along.

Sorry. How foolish of me. Making it up as you go along is what you do.

P.S. Why are you singing "pub songs" at a football match?

I know a lot of non tims who like the song,its a great song.

I think Celtic fans used to sing it years ago and it made a comeback int he late eighties early nineties but Im sure others will have more knowledge about it than me.

I haven't lost my temper my post may have looked angrier than it actually was, i'm amused at your stupidity that's all. There is no racism in the song as i said above it's a song about a crime perpetrated by a colonial power.

For god's sake don't let him see the America anthem

So you usually go about abusing people who are merely debating the topic in a mannerly way?

It doesn't say much for your intelligence or class, yet you appear to be defending those who claim they are abused.

You're a hypocrite and not a very bright one, either.

I cant picture his head exploding when he gets introduced to rap.

Can you change yer name to Daftie Maximus please

I am defending those who have been abused, the Irish famine was a crime commited by the british empire, it was completely preventable. And as i said before, the song is in no way racist. As for abusing you, you deserve everything you get, you are obviously an alias and a none too subtle one at that, not too bright really.

I'm perfectly happy for you to hold "these ambulance chasing, professional complainers to their own standard." but this is a crap argument.

PS I'd never sing this song at a football match

PPS I'm mildly interested in knowing whose alias you are

I asked if he was PTB209, and got a suspicious reply, he's certainly an alias

Sorry but that's been saved for you.

Which Celtic supporters have been abused by the famine?

If the songs not racist, then neither's your much hated "famine song".

Both songs are by definition, anti a section of society.

This is my only name ever on this board.

I have used many other board, sometimes using this name.

Don't be so paranoid. You'll be singing the Feel of Artur's Thighs soon.

a ouija board?

I'm pretty sure he'd no need wan o them to contact the spirits

I smell shite

I smell a wolf in sheep's clothing even someone raised without the benefits of a catholic education could be this stupid.

The use of the word Crown should be taken to mean the law (as in Crown Court, King's/Queens Counsel etc) as the person in the song was of course not rebelling against whatever resident parasite was in place at the time, but had instead broken in to a shed to feed his family.

Also to answer the thread's question: anti-British sentiment just for the sake of it, is racism.

Can I introduce you to grammar? You clearly haven't encountered it before.

After that, then we may introduce you to logic, you self proclaimed genius.

Nice bit of bigotry there too, in the form of Catholic supremacism.

The argument stands unrefuted.

The Fields of Athenry is unashamedly anti-British. That much cannot be denied.

If we are to accept that an allegedly anti-Irish song is racist, then anti-British, anti-German, anti-French and anti-American songs, would also be considered.

It's a matter of consistency, however, nobody seems to grasped the subtlety of this hypothetical.

Were I to stress the point again, I would be guilty of patronisation and condescension.

Yup unfortunetly we've given half the world reason, and continue to do so Tough running a country I suppose

and of being a boring repetative c**t

But your view is not logical or consistent because it fails to take account of context. Not least the power relation between minority and dominant groups.

Songs which might lament the shameful murderous history of a (former ) "empire" are fair enough in my book.

Whereas racist songs which serve to discriminate against minorities ought to be forcibly silenced.

The word 'they' is used twice in the entire song: once in reference to the people taking the young man away and the other in the following lyric 'Against Famine and Crown I rebelled they ran me down', where they is referring to both Famine and Crown and his different acts of rebellion. In one act he's rebelled against the law and the other he's railed against the hunger and sought to make amends to his empty stomach. Ultimately, both acts have been his undoing, i.e., both Famine and Crown (the law) have ran him down.

hth.co.uk

So anti-white racism doesn't exist?

I don't think he said that did he?

I think that while you're on your moral high horse, championing the rights of those racially abused, can you not take that dastardly Bob Mugabe to task down Zimbabwe. You could even film it. Paste a BBC sticker on to your camera before you go, mind.

Context requires neither logic nor consistency. Logic and consistency would assert that wrong is wrong despite context.

Proteus Maxmus talks from a chasm in his gluteus maximus.

It is not logical or consistent to delimit racism to colour. For instance, we know that anti-Irish racism is the longest standing racism in the British context.

Because some women have been convicted of rape doesn't mean we should run about wagging our fingers in female victims' faces and pretending that almost all rapists aren't male. In the same way, disgusting triumphalist bigots claiming they are victims as well as perpetrators of racism rings somewhat hollow imo. Especially when they themselves are the principle - if not the only - thing which still drags the name of Scotland down into the gutter.

I disagree and prefer a more hermeneutic approach

Rather than anti-Roman racism? Or anti Viking racism? Or...

See if you've an allergy to Penicillin, does that mean you're antibioticist?

Be hermeneutical if you will but don't claim logic or consistency as your companion

Look, it's taking me twice as long as normal to read these posts, cos I keep needing to look up dictionary.com.

Gie's a break guys

I struggle with 'as' also.