Lads,
After yesterdays game I was fuckin' raging at the result, more the 1st half performance in fact!
But after calming down I had a right good think about it...
At the end of the group - We won't top it. We'll finish 2nd with enough points I'm sure to get a play-off.
Iceland, Norway and Macedonia will all draw and beat each other therefore we should pretty much cruise to 2nd place. However - It is important we don't have anymore slip ups!
Our best players are still to return - Hutton and Ferguson in particular. 2 Very important players for Scotland in my opinion. Ferguson keeps the midfield together and we all know how good Hutton is at Wing-Back - Fuckin excellent player.
With the Macedonia game. Their have been bigger and better teams visiting their to only come out with 1 point or fuck all. I believe that happened with Holland in the Euro2008 campaign. The heat may have been a factor but should never have been an excuse. But the 2nd half performance we could hopefully take some heart from.
After years of following Scotland home and away during the Vogts year - I lost all confidence in Scotland and wasn't very positive about us at all. However - Still supported Scotland loud and proud as you do. So I have every right to feel negative after yesterdays game - But I don't. I feel as if we can still go on to qualify no problem.
'Mon the Scotland!!!
Full Version: Time To Brighten Up Lads
Well said
We'll be coming
We'll be coming
Agreed,well said that man and stop all this negative garbage.
I agree. In fact, if you're being very optimistic then you could argue that we've done well out of yesterday's results as I think generally most people would have taken a point away to Macedonia and Norway would have been expected to win. It definitely dents our chances of finishing first though (which I don't think were that unrealistic... Holland are a strange team to predict).
I think we'll finish above Norway, the x-factor might be how Macedonia do. I still think we've got a half decent chance for first though... I don't trust the Dutch to do the business.
F**k knows why I'm so optimistic... I'm never usually like this! Although it would be a very Scottish thing to do to finish second but be the worst placed runner up and not even get into the playoffs!
I think we'll finish above Norway, the x-factor might be how Macedonia do. I still think we've got a half decent chance for first though... I don't trust the Dutch to do the business.
F**k knows why I'm so optimistic... I'm never usually like this! Although it would be a very Scottish thing to do to finish second but be the worst placed runner up and not even get into the playoffs!
QUOTE (Duff Man @ Sep 7 2008, 12:40) 
Lads,
After yesterdays game I was fuckin' raging at the result, more the 1st half performance in fact!
But after calming down I had a right good think about it...
At the end of the group - We won't top it. We'll finish 2nd with enough points I'm sure to get a play-off.
Iceland, Norway and Macedonia will all draw and beat each other therefore we should pretty much cruise to 2nd place. However - It is important we don't have anymore slip ups!
Our best players are still to return - Hutton and Ferguson in particular. 2 Very important players for Scotland in my opinion. Ferguson keeps the midfield together and we all know how good Hutton is at Wing-Back - Fuckin excellent player.
With the Macedonia game. Their have been bigger and better teams visiting their to only come out with 1 point or f**k all. I believe that happened with Holland in the Euro2008 campaign. The heat may have been a factor but should never have been an excuse. But the 2nd half performance we could hopefully take some heart from.
After years of following Scotland home and away during the Vogts year - I lost all confidence in Scotland and wasn't very positive about us at all. However - Still supported Scotland loud and proud as you do. So I have every right to feel negative after yesterdays game - But I don't. I feel as if we can still go on to qualify no problem.
'Mon the Scotland!!!
After yesterdays game I was fuckin' raging at the result, more the 1st half performance in fact!
But after calming down I had a right good think about it...
At the end of the group - We won't top it. We'll finish 2nd with enough points I'm sure to get a play-off.
Iceland, Norway and Macedonia will all draw and beat each other therefore we should pretty much cruise to 2nd place. However - It is important we don't have anymore slip ups!
Our best players are still to return - Hutton and Ferguson in particular. 2 Very important players for Scotland in my opinion. Ferguson keeps the midfield together and we all know how good Hutton is at Wing-Back - Fuckin excellent player.
With the Macedonia game. Their have been bigger and better teams visiting their to only come out with 1 point or f**k all. I believe that happened with Holland in the Euro2008 campaign. The heat may have been a factor but should never have been an excuse. But the 2nd half performance we could hopefully take some heart from.
After years of following Scotland home and away during the Vogts year - I lost all confidence in Scotland and wasn't very positive about us at all. However - Still supported Scotland loud and proud as you do. So I have every right to feel negative after yesterdays game - But I don't. I feel as if we can still go on to qualify no problem.
'Mon the Scotland!!!
A staggering assertion after yesterday.
Think I'll remain depressed, thanks.
Good post. Aslong as we get a win on Wednesday the whole team will feel a bit fo pressure has lifted, as they need that 1st win.
QUOTE (shetlandbairn @ Sep 7 2008, 14:09)
I agree. In fact, if you're being very optimistic then you could argue that we've done well out of yesterday's results as I think generally most people would have taken a point away to Macedonia and Norway would have been expected to win. It definitely dents our chances of finishing first though (which I don't think were that unrealistic... Holland are a strange team to predict).
I think we'll finish above Norway, the x-factor might be how Macedonia do. I still think we've got a half decent chance for first though... I don't trust the Dutch to do the business.
F**k knows why I'm so optimistic... I'm never usually like this! Although it would be a very Scottish thing to do to finish second but be the worst placed runner up and not even get into the playoffs!
I think we'll finish above Norway, the x-factor might be how Macedonia do. I still think we've got a half decent chance for first though... I don't trust the Dutch to do the business.
F**k knows why I'm so optimistic... I'm never usually like this! Although it would be a very Scottish thing to do to finish second but be the worst placed runner up and not even get into the playoffs!
Exactly,we would have been 1 pt worse off if we had drawn and Norway had won.
I fully expect us to win on Wednesday and then when we will hopefully have Ferguson and Hutton back we can win all our home games including Holland,probably lose in Amsterdam and if we can win in Norway we will be on 18 pts.Good enough for second and a play off place.
I dont want to feel pessimistic or a naysayer at all so do agree with the sentiment. My only problem is trying to find evidence to back up such optimism. I have seen anything so far from Burley's reign to suggest that we will win games. We dont carry any real goal threat at the moment which is quite staggering when you conside the goals we were rattling in against the likes of Ukraine with a more defensive shape. Hope I am completely wrong as my kids still dont have the experience of looking forward to a makor tourney with Scotland participating.
QUOTE (stevenston saint @ Sep 7 2008, 09:38)
Exactly,we would have been 1 pt worse off if we had drawn and Norway had won.
I fully expect us to win on Wednesday and then when we will hopefully have Ferguson and Hutton back we can win all our home games including Holland,probably lose in Amsterdam and if we can win in Norway we will be on 18 pts.Good enough for second and a play off place.
I fully expect us to win on Wednesday and then when we will hopefully have Ferguson and Hutton back we can win all our home games including Holland,probably lose in Amsterdam and if we can win in Norway we will be on 18 pts.Good enough for second and a play off place.
Compared to Norway we are 1 pt better off ,however compared to Macedonia we are worse off, compared to Iceland we are worse off, and compared to the teams in the other groups we are worse off. It was a bad result for us.
It was a poor performance but some of the reaction to it has been utterly pathetic.
First of all, who are we to think we can just swan up to Macedonia and pick up three points just like that? This is a team that has taken points off Holland and England on no less than two occassions and beat Croatia when they last visited Skopje. So this whole notion that nothing less than a win was good enough was a nonsense from the start. The facts are a win, loss or draw were all about as likely to happen as each other since international football these days, especially in Europe, is so tight with so little between MOST of the teams you can't possible expect easy points.
Secondly the whole defeatist attitude of Scottish people in general really gets my goat. Take Richard Gordon on Radio Scotland yesterday. Before the match he was all gloom and doom and admitted he thought we would blow it and predicted a loss. After the match he said he was 'so disappointed and let down' by the team - even though he had shown no faith or optimism before the match! How can you be let down and disappointed if you didn't think they would win in the first place! Just the old Scottish trait of expecting to fail and then failing, which has to go if any improvement in this country, football or otherwise, is ever going to be possible.
As for the whole 'We're Out The World Cup Now' school of thought (ha!) excuse me, we lost ONE game with seven to go. The difference between Holland and Croatia and Scotland is when Holland and Croatia drop points in Skopje they don't start thinking they are the worst team in the world and absolutely revel in negativity and defeatism. They shake themselves down, think OK it was a bad result but we are still good enough to qualify and then they qualify. Not us though, we've already got the knives out for the manager after one competitive match.
First of all, who are we to think we can just swan up to Macedonia and pick up three points just like that? This is a team that has taken points off Holland and England on no less than two occassions and beat Croatia when they last visited Skopje. So this whole notion that nothing less than a win was good enough was a nonsense from the start. The facts are a win, loss or draw were all about as likely to happen as each other since international football these days, especially in Europe, is so tight with so little between MOST of the teams you can't possible expect easy points.
Secondly the whole defeatist attitude of Scottish people in general really gets my goat. Take Richard Gordon on Radio Scotland yesterday. Before the match he was all gloom and doom and admitted he thought we would blow it and predicted a loss. After the match he said he was 'so disappointed and let down' by the team - even though he had shown no faith or optimism before the match! How can you be let down and disappointed if you didn't think they would win in the first place! Just the old Scottish trait of expecting to fail and then failing, which has to go if any improvement in this country, football or otherwise, is ever going to be possible.
As for the whole 'We're Out The World Cup Now' school of thought (ha!) excuse me, we lost ONE game with seven to go. The difference between Holland and Croatia and Scotland is when Holland and Croatia drop points in Skopje they don't start thinking they are the worst team in the world and absolutely revel in negativity and defeatism. They shake themselves down, think OK it was a bad result but we are still good enough to qualify and then they qualify. Not us though, we've already got the knives out for the manager after one competitive match.
QUOTE (bluetooner @ Sep 7 2008, 17:49)
Compared to Norway we are 1 pt better off ,however compared to Macedonia we are worse off, compared to Iceland we are worse off, and compared to the teams in the other groups we are worse off. It was a bad result for us.
I am not denying it was,but Macedonia will not pick any points up on the road.If you seriously believe Macedonia and Iceland are going to be in the mix for second place you are seriously in need of help mate.
QUOTE (dogma @ Sep 7 2008, 17:40)
I dont want to feel pessimistic or a naysayer at all so do agree with the sentiment. My only problem is trying to find evidence to back up such optimism. I have seen anything so far from Burley's reign to suggest that we will win games. We dont carry any real goal threat at the moment which is quite staggering when you conside the goals we were rattling in against the likes of Ukraine with a more defensive shape. Hope I am completely wrong as my kids still dont have the experience of looking forward to a makor tourney with Scotland participating.
Yes, that's it.
I'd genuinely love to be upbeat, but it would be based on little beyond blind faith.
We are capable of winning in Iceland, we might and I sincerely hope we do; but I suspect we won't and the campaign will already have gotten away from us.
Is it really so disloyal to admit concern over how we've looked of late and what it might bode for the future?
Scotland were outstanding, don't you listen to Burley?! A 1-1 draw with Iceland tips us into 'a fucking stoater of a result', and keeping Holland down to 3 goals at the Amsterdam Arena is 'pure gallas'
It's worth remembering that even Vogts guided us to 2nd place in a group of 5.
And in that campaign we lost to Lithuania (A) and Germany (A), and drew with Faroe Islands (A) and Germany (H). We only won 4 games, and ended with 14 points, and that was good enough for a 2nd place finish.
And in that campaign we lost to Lithuania (A) and Germany (A), and drew with Faroe Islands (A) and Germany (H). We only won 4 games, and ended with 14 points, and that was good enough for a 2nd place finish.
Steve Fletcher in the squad now as well.
Fingers crossed Fletcher and Boyd start up front
Fingers crossed Fletcher and Boyd start up front
QUOTE (DJP @ Sep 7 2008, 21:46)
Steve Fletcher in the squad now as well.
Fingers crossed Fletcher and Boyd start up front
Fingers crossed Fletcher and Boyd start up front
I'd still play McFadden on Wednesday - probably alongside Boyd. Fletcher can come on if we need a goal.
QUOTE (Ya Bezzer! @ Sep 7 2008, 18:38)
It was a poor performance but some of the reaction to it has been utterly pathetic.
First of all, who are we to think we can just swan up to Macedonia and pick up three points just like that? This is a team that has taken points off Holland and England on no less than two occassions and beat Croatia when they last visited Skopje. So this whole notion that nothing less than a win was good enough was a nonsense from the start. The facts are a win, loss or draw were all about as likely to happen as each other since international football these days, especially in Europe, is so tight with so little between MOST of the teams you can't possible expect easy points.
Secondly the whole defeatist attitude of Scottish people in general really gets my goat. Take Richard Gordon on Radio Scotland yesterday. Before the match he was all gloom and doom and admitted he thought we would blow it and predicted a loss. After the match he said he was 'so disappointed and let down' by the team - even though he had shown no faith or optimism before the match! How can you be let down and disappointed if you didn't think they would win in the first place! Just the old Scottish trait of expecting to fail and then failing, which has to go if any improvement in this country, football or otherwise, is ever going to be possible.
As for the whole 'We're Out The World Cup Now' school of thought (ha!) excuse me, we lost ONE game with seven to go. The difference between Holland and Croatia and Scotland is when Holland and Croatia drop points in Skopje they don't start thinking they are the worst team in the world and absolutely revel in negativity and defeatism. They shake themselves down, think OK it was a bad result but we are still good enough to qualify and then they qualify. Not us though, we've already got the knives out for the manager after one competitive match.
First of all, who are we to think we can just swan up to Macedonia and pick up three points just like that? This is a team that has taken points off Holland and England on no less than two occassions and beat Croatia when they last visited Skopje. So this whole notion that nothing less than a win was good enough was a nonsense from the start. The facts are a win, loss or draw were all about as likely to happen as each other since international football these days, especially in Europe, is so tight with so little between MOST of the teams you can't possible expect easy points.
Secondly the whole defeatist attitude of Scottish people in general really gets my goat. Take Richard Gordon on Radio Scotland yesterday. Before the match he was all gloom and doom and admitted he thought we would blow it and predicted a loss. After the match he said he was 'so disappointed and let down' by the team - even though he had shown no faith or optimism before the match! How can you be let down and disappointed if you didn't think they would win in the first place! Just the old Scottish trait of expecting to fail and then failing, which has to go if any improvement in this country, football or otherwise, is ever going to be possible.
As for the whole 'We're Out The World Cup Now' school of thought (ha!) excuse me, we lost ONE game with seven to go. The difference between Holland and Croatia and Scotland is when Holland and Croatia drop points in Skopje they don't start thinking they are the worst team in the world and absolutely revel in negativity and defeatism. They shake themselves down, think OK it was a bad result but we are still good enough to qualify and then they qualify. Not us though, we've already got the knives out for the manager after one competitive match.
You talked a lot of pish there, that being the main bit. By the same token does that mean if you expect to win you can't be pleased when you win because you expected to win anyway?
He feels disappointed because he wants Scotland to win, what he thinks will happen and what he wants to happen are two very different things. A lot of fans seem to think that unless you predict Scotland to win 5-0 then you don't want Scotland to win.
I'm all for being positive if there is something to be positive about, if you're positive when there is no reason to be you just look stupid. That performance on Saturday was abysmal. Whether that was the players playing to their normal level or they just had a bad day, who knows. The friendly games so far have been rubbish too though and things just don't look good.
Anyway, hopefully things will be better after the Iceland game.
I've reiterated this point countless times, so one more time won't hurt: "Barry Ferguson (when fit) is Scotland's captain and best midfielder".
I dont rate Barry Ferguson very highly but I have now noticed the trend that when he isnt playing Scotland generally dont play well. So maybe ive been underrating him.
I still think we will get 2nd. As long as we maintain our excellent home record. If we lose on Wednesday then it will be very hard right enough. It means we would have to get something in Norway probably which we have done before but I dont know if we could again.
I still think we will get 2nd. As long as we maintain our excellent home record. If we lose on Wednesday then it will be very hard right enough. It means we would have to get something in Norway probably which we have done before but I dont know if we could again.
QUOTE (craigkillie @ Sep 7 2008, 21:01)
It's worth remembering that even Vogts guided us to 2nd place in a group of 5.
And in that campaign we lost to Lithuania (A) and Germany (A), and drew with Faroe Islands (A) and Germany (H). We only won 4 games, and ended with 14 points, and that was good enough for a 2nd place finish.
And in that campaign we lost to Lithuania (A) and Germany (A), and drew with Faroe Islands (A) and Germany (H). We only won 4 games, and ended with 14 points, and that was good enough for a 2nd place finish.
The other team who we did manage to beat home and away of course was Iceland.
I think the difference there was that other than the big power - Germany, none of the other sides had ever been near the finals of a major tournament.
This time, as well as the big gun - Holland and the also rans, one of whom just beat us; Norway are present. They have a similar record to our own and we'll need to finish ahead of them as well as two others. I know Norway started badly as well, but the fact remains that finishing 2nd in this group will be tougher than it was for Vogts' mob to struggle to that position from their group back then.
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