Dick Advocaat claims Celtic and Rangers tried to join the English League's bottom tier at the start of the decade.

The Dutchman, who was manager of Rangers between 1998 and 2001, revealed that he had talks with then Celtic manager Martin O'Neill.

"When I was manager, we tried with Martin O'Neill and the boards from both sides," he told BBC Sport.

"That was already spectacular, to go into the English League, not at the top but starting in the Third Division."

Advocaat was speaking as he was waiting to hear who his Zenit St Petersburg side will face in the Champions League group stages.

And the former Ibrox boss, who will lead his Russian champions and Uefa Cup winners out against Manchester United in Friday's European Supercup, believes that the Old Firm's ambitions were ended by English clubs who feared the Glasgow's pair's buying power and potential.

English top-tier clubs voted against allowing the Old Firm into the Premier League and, after the Glasgow clubs turned their attention to the then Nationwide League, the English FA ruled that out too in 2002.

"They did not allow us to discuss that or talk about it because they are scared of us," said Advocaat, who left Ibrox in 2002 after a season as director of football.

"Definitely, otherwise what was the problem if we came in at the Third Division?"


Most Scottish Premier League clubs also appeared to be against a move south of the Border by the Old Firm because they feared a loss of revenue.

"The other Scottish clubs I don't understand, because they had the chance to play in the Champions League like Rangers and Celtic," added Advocaat.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/s...rem/7586222.stm


I knew that the OF had tried to join the English leagues at the top level, but the clubs voted against it, but I didn't know about this move. Seems that the English clubs were over-worried about the attraction the OF clubs have to players, and they would eventually make it to the Premiership, so would be a very attractive move due to playing in the Prem as well as the fan base sizes, also interesting to see the rest of the Scottish sides also rejected it!

Don't need the OF my backside.

What were they going to do? Just kick out a couple of league sides and tell all the clubs in the many leagues below who work their way up to f**k off. The arrogance of the Old Firm is astounding. The "If it wasn't for the Old Firm in Scotland..." is rubbish- Well the Old Firm are Scottish. "IF it wasn't for Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool in England..."

Maybe they should have bought Wimbledon and moved them to Glasgow. Opportunity lost.

Kicking clubs out? Where did I ever mention anything about kicking 2 clubs out, sides were relegated from the 3rd Division and others promoted, and I'm pretty sure that the OF are better sides than the clubs who got promoted into them.

The OF are Scottish again? It's not that when you lot are greeting and moaning that "Celtic are Irish" and "Rangers are English/British" and are only damaging Scotland.

Also you can't argue with the fact the rest of the Scottish side depend on the OF, as without them you would lose a hell of alot in revenue.

Almost every ground in the SPL only ever fills when either Rangers or Celtic comes to visit.

If they never existed the majority of people would support the other most dominant sides, like when Queens Park were successful. They aren't a separate entity from the rest of Scottish football.

That surely would have took alot of loyality from players to put up with crapy football for a few years until the reached the championship. But as far as money goes they only would have missed the champions league( i say only ) as SKY would have the spotlight on them all season pushing them into the Preimership eventually, We all know SKY would want this to happen. I can see why the Priemership would fear them from a neutral point of view it would be great to watch them in the Top English league.

Surely any other English team wishing to play top-flight football would have to work their way up from the very bottom (not just the lowest tier of the 4 divisions) ?

Why should Rangers or Celtic be any different?

Well said were Irish and English when suited and Scottish when trying to better ourselves
stuck in the mire with the rest of the SPL , I for one would not like to join the english leagues
but some sort of atlantic league with promotion/relegation probably never happen so we will
stay in the SPL where the other clubs dont want us

Because they are the people/the greatest family in the world (respectively.)

Why thank you.

Because when the OF applied, there was only 4 divisions in English Football??

The pyramid has been 'fully' working since 1995, I think. That's when Scarborough became the first team to gain automatic promotion from the Conference - thus completing the links from top to bottom.

Indeed, and if you look at, say, FC United of Manchester, newly-founded teams tend to slot into the highest league that can accommodate them without denying others a "rightful" place. FCUM entered at Step 5, aka Level 10, or nine levels below the Prem.

If the winner of the Conference was for whatever reason unable or unwilling to move up to League Two then it may make sense for Rangers or Celtic to be let in then - maybe, that is, because it would see a side relegated that otherwise wouldn't be.

If the gruesome twosome are serious about this they'd be better off waiting until a spot opens up due to reconstruction, or just wait for the next iteration of the "super prem."

Scarborugh were promted in 1987.

Feck me! Is it that long ago?

God I'm old

The highest league you can join 'by application' in the current English pyramid system is Step 9 (level 5 of the NLS part), which currently comprises 14 different zonal leagues. Above this are 6 zonal leagues, above them 3, and above then 2 (Conference North & South). So for Rangers and Celtic to join the English system, they would have to enter the North-West League / North-East League / or North League; and work their way up to the Premiership in a minimum of 8 seasons.

There is certainly no system exisiting now, whereby the could parachute directly into League 2.

Don't read post 1 then.

When it was discussed, there was no Confrence, Confrence N/S. It was down to the 3rd Division and then it stopped.

Complete bollocks

Eh, you'll find its not.

The discussions took place in about 2000/01 according to the article. Automatic promotion from the Conference first started in 1987 with Scarborough being the first team to benefit.

If this is true the OF could play a 2nd team down south for a few of these seasons. They would get great crowds from local OF supports. Then they could get serious as they neared the Premiership...Just a thought. It would also generate money and give squad players a chance to perform week in week out

why didn't the huns ask permission to join the N Irish league and the hooped huns to the Roi league ... seen they didn't want to play in the Spl ... why didn't they go home ?? ... they could have given us peace and got rid of the pondlife at the same time

I cant see anybody taking Killie...so i am afraid we are stuck with the pond life