The youth coaches at the club are now being persued by the SPL clubs one of them has already left 3 weeks ago.

I can understand why if you look at the talent coming through even at yesterdays game with Peterhead we had a young boy called Greig Spence on the bench, does anyone no anything abot this guy?

I certainly hope the club do everything they can to keep these coaches as they will be the lifeblood of the club for a long time to come.

No.

No

No.

If this Spence was a goalkeeper it might have been Jim Spence's son who played for Dundee. He was on the bench against Alloa and from what I saw in the warm-up he was hopeless the players were just taking the piss out of him. He might still play for the Dundee youth team and i hope that it is not him as i would not wish him upon anyone.

Spence Jr was still at Dundee last week according to Spence Sr.

Laurie Spence - Dundee 16 yr old U17s keeper.

Greig Spence is a 16 yr old striker with Alloa who made his debut on Saturday.

I have no doubt that the youth coaches we have are top drawer and have a lot of committment.

The lifeblood of the club? The facts are that only one player has emerged from our youth set up over the past 10 years and played 25 games in our first team. The name of this player is John Grant. Jamie Stevenson was a product of Aberdeen's youth set up and came to Alloa via them. Many players reach the first team then get loaned out and sit on the bench at Sauchie or Camelon juniors. I really hope this changes .

I sincerely hope that the current crop of prospects emerge and progress to our first team and compete in the Scottish Second Division. As I stated earlier , I do not doubt the quality and committment of our coaches.

I have no vested interest in this matter other that that I am a paying customer and Alloa fan and want us to at least compete.

The fact remains that we had more players progressing from our youth set up when we had a reserve team to bridge the gap. Players like Barry Moffatt, Shaun Smith and Paul Sheerin benefited from a year playing in a reserve leauge prior to stepping up to the first team and proved to be good players for Alloa.

Furthermore, many players get axed from SPL teams and have sufient quality to do well in lower leauge football. Many of these players are lost to the game.

Good points there Oweny. Stirling also have players who were "the next big thing" but have instead wasted away in the East juniors. Youth systems seem to go in cycles. Over the course of a year or two you'll get plenty coming through ie at Stirling we had Stewart Devine, David O'Brien, Ian Turner, Alex Williams and Dougie Wilson who all came through at about the same time. However, there will then be long periods when nothing happens and it seems like a waste of time. At the moment we now have Liam Corr who is the first player to make any real progress form SAFC youths for a few seasons. I can see how some clubs probably think it's an expensive luxury but someone needs to do it.

Stevenson came into the Alloa youth setup at 16 and progressed through the different teams from there, I would say he is certainly a product of our setup rather than Aberdeens. More so even than John Grant who joined the Wasps youths at 17 and only played in the Alloa youth setup briefly before being promoted to the first team squad by Allan Maitland.

Totally agree with your argument though.

These are 2 very good points. As much as I like the idea of a good youth set up throughout the leagues I'm concerned that they are a needless drain on a club's finances. The step up from the U19s is massive and without a reserve team to bridge the gap most players won't make it.

Add in your second point, that of the axed SPL players who can do a decent job 'down' here, I'm not sure why clubs keep pumping money into the youth set ups.

I heard quite an interesting point of view last week from someone who has played at the very top level in Scotland. He felt that the system that existed in the early 1990s and before (Reserves and 1st team squad) was better than what we have now, simply because in his mind if a player has not reached the standard required for 1st team football at 18, he will not be good enough full stop. He felt that a lot of lads were being given false hope by the Pro Youth development programmes and were being lost to the game when eventually cut loose at a disillusioned 18 or 19.

A lot of clubs seem to run youth systems merely for funding.

This is undeniably accurate. Players can progress through leagues but if you can't cut it a 3rd division level by 18. You need to consider a different career path.

I hear what you are saying however there is a few other youngsters that have been developed from the youths and like it or not they are in the first team at present that you forgot to mention, Francis Kelly, Jamie Hay who are both doing as well as anyone else at the moment. There are others as well who i am informed shall be given every oppertunity as well. Martin ONeil and the boy Kerr spring to mind.

The point i was raising is the fact that the coaches are being persued by the bigger teams which shall slow down the youth set up at the club. I know the youths at any club are a financial drain but it is my understanding that the coches here at the Recs are almost self funding which is a disgrace for football in Scotland as a whole. In the next 10 years youth football in Scotland shall be the lifeblood of many a club because all the funding is going to England via the TV deals etc.

The youth set up at Alloa is totally self financing through fundraisers, sponsorship and SFA grants etc. In fact only a couple of years ago there was suggestion that some of the youth money was actually being used to finance some of the first team

True in the most part... but there are exceptions. Ian Wright, Kevin Phillips, and Dave Kitson are 3 high profiles are ones that come to mind.

I don't think that analogy works entirely though, though I know Phillips was on the books of Southampton as a teenager as a defender and it was a change of position while non-league that got him back up to League football. Kitson wasn't considered up to League standard and didn't play to any great standard initially and by the sounds of it Wright seemed to lack the dedication to make it early on.

What I was saying (or what was said to me) was that players who ARE at full-time or even SFL clubs and are not chapping on the door of the 1st team at 18 will likely not make it anyway.

In the SPL we have Marc Corcoran who played Junior to early 20s and also Mark McLaughlin. Had either started at say Clyde or Alloa, would they have been good enough for the 1sts as teens? Maybe they would have.

One thing I forgot to say (I don't want to edit a post eternally) was that there are of course different levels at work here. A lad viewed as not good enough for Rangers will maybe have the ability to make it at a lower level. And mentioning Kevin Phillips, well Southampton in the late 80s/early 90s played at the top level in English football so someone considered not good enough there may have easily been good enough elsewhere.

But what is the point of a youth team if it doesn't produce players of a good enough standard for the top side? As I said, in the 'old days' it was just Reserves and First Team with players coming into the League from Junior sides, Boys Clubs, Juveniles or straight from school. If they were good enough they stuck around, if not then they ended dropping down the divisions.

Obviously the success of a youth system varies greatly. Here's how many that I can see of the players involved so far this season by SPL sides in matchday squads (league and cup where applicable) that have come through a club's youth system (i.e. definitely were there as Pro Youth schoolboys as opposed to signing from elsewhere at 16 or as S/X Forms).

Motherwell (10/21)
Aberdeen (8/20)
Celtic (6/23)
Hearts (6/22)
Hibs (5/23)
Falkirk (4/20)
Inverness (4/20)
Rangers (4/27)
Kilmarnock (3/21)
St. Mirren (3/21)
Dundee United (2/21)
Hamilton (2/19)

For all the talk of Hamilton's superb youth system, it doesn't seem to tie in with who's playing for them just now. Maybe more lads will get a chance as the season goes on.

Cerny, Tomas: Signed from Sigma Olomouc at 21
Easton, Brian: Signed from Weirs BC at 16
Graham, Davie: Signed from Gretna at 24
McArthur, James: Signed from Clyde at 15... youth product, just
McCarthy, James: Youth product
Stevenson, Tony: S Form signing at 16
McLaughlin, Mark: Signed from Clyde at 28
Swailes, Chris: Signed from Oldham at 36
Mensing, Simon: Signed from Motherwell at 25
Neil, Alex: Signed from Mansfield at 24
Offiong, Richard: Signed from Doncaster at 22
Corcoran, Mark: Signed from Linlithgow at 22 initially, then again from St Mirren at 27
Elebert, David: Signed from PNE at 19
Thomas, Joel: Signed from Kaiserslautern at 21
Akins, Lucas: Signed from Huddersfield at 19
Lyle, Derek: Signed from Dundee at 27
Murdoch, Sean: Signed from Dunfermline at 22
Sorsa, Sebastian: Signed from Leeds at 24
Taylor, Stuart: Signed from Airdrie Utd at 32

I only mentioned a player who has played 25 first team games and I think that number is a fair assumption of an established first team player. I hope you are proved right with the current squad of hopefuls however we have seen loads of youngsters make the first team then fail to establish themselves. I sincerely hope Francis Kelly and the boy Hay do the buisness for us and buck the recent trends. Players like Learmouth, Kelbie, Finlay, Comrie, Micael Stuart to name a few, all made our first team only to vanish to the subs benches at local junior teams.
Its ok to reach the first team but establishing yourself in it has proven a tough task. To be fair our first team isn't exactly been scaling the heights either.
Once again I really hope you are proven right but in truth I hear the same thing being said every year.

What about the youth players at 16 and 17 years old are there any have the ability to break through to the first team in the future

I appreciate that most youth set ups are well financed by lottery grants, the SFA and such. However, the money and resources IMO could be put to better use. Investing in the first team may be the one most people would like but I personally think that would prove to be a waste of money.

I'd prefer it if that money went into developing 2 or 3 centres of excellence where the countries most gifted youths can be developed by people trained and deicated to that role not constantly being put under pressure by Managers and Chairman to cut out the dead wood who maybe just need more time and work. The current system simply doesn't work in my opinion.

This would also have a small benefit for the first team, it would allow managers and coaching staff to focus solely on the first team/reserves rather than wasting time and effort watching players that most clubs don't have the capability of turning into top quality first teamers.

Bit rambling. Aorry.

Jamie Hay 17 and Greig Spence 16, Greig spence has featured in the last few games and done really well.

There are a few others but i cant be arsed telling you who

If you are struggling for a youth coach, you can have Mark Shanks from our Academy!!

The guy shouldn`t have been allowed anywhere back near our club!!

IMHO he is hovering around at the academy in the hope that Reid gets the bag and he can step into his boots!

Is John Grant a striker? I used to be part of the youth set up there ago when i was 16, and i'm 22 now...and i thought it was decent. Around the time Scott Crabee was there, Christie as the manager...the youth coaches were Hugh McCann, and David somebody or other...who were quite good guys. I think i used to play with John, who stepped up from 16's, and 17's to the first team...if it's the same guy. Does Hugh McCann still take them?

Is it Mulgrew or soemthign that owns the club?

John Grant is a midfielder and he's only 20, probably not the same guy? Hugh McCann is still head of the youth setup. According to the interview with one of the coaches in the excellent pullout on the youth teams in Saturday's programme the new pitch at Alloa has really helped the underage teams. The suggestion was that with the facilties, the good reputation of the coaches and the fact that first team football was an attainable goal that Alloa are now a much more attractive option for good young players. We just need a few more to follow the example of Stevenson and Grant and make a lasting impact with the first team.

Hugh McCann gave the half time team talk to Alloa's Under 19 team when they played at Lesser Hampden a couple of weekends ago.

Watched the u16s win 1-0 against Clyde today in a cracking match at Recreation Park.

A great performance from the lads and the perfect response to last weeks dismal result and showing at QoS.
Alloas winning goal came from a smashing 25 yard free kick and the coaches will be pleased that the team also managed to earn their 2nd clean sheet in 3 games.

It's Saint Johnstone in Perth next week.

Have to admit the Alloa youth set up looks very impressive we played them today at receration and got a good thumping some very good players in thier side

Greig Spence Is A Great Player, I Go To School With Him. I Heard Alloa Have Signed Him On A Proper Contract After A Few Teams Were Looking At Him But Yeah He's A Great Player For GHis Age & Should Get A Chance In The 1st Team. On The Downside He Is Rather Small. I Know Another Guy Called Ross Philp Who Is In The Under 17's I Think & Has Been Told That He Is On The Verge Of Getting A Chance In The 1st Team, Plays Right Back Also A Very Good Player For His Age, Once Again Rather Small Though

Clubs are not overly bothered about getting players through the youth system as they get funding from the authorities for having youth teams but dont have to put the back into the youth set up. The money is more often spent on the first team, forcing the youths to do their own fundraising even though the clubs are rewarded for "allegedly" bringing them through the ranks. In my opinion the money paid to clubs for youth football should be managed seperately and accounted for to ensure that they are treated properly as professional youht team players.


This should maybe have it's own topic???