Can anyone confirm if we were "Dundee's bitches" last season, as I sure as hell haven't heard about it.

Onto the matter at hand, I'd have been fairly confident before Saturday's performance, although Dundee's results haven't looked convincing.
A few of the games last year were very tight, and the final match at Cappielow could really have went either way.
Simply, we cannot afford to be that sloppy at the back - we'll likely switch to a 4-4-2 to "combat" Dundee and I have reservations over the likely full-backs (Shimmin, Walker) when ran at.
With a bit of luck Jenkins can return to the centre of midfield, likely Masterton will be dropped but Paartalu might well be too after the weekend: McGuffie into centre would allow Finlayson right mid again.
Think we can win the battle in midfield if Jenkins shows the drive seen in his 10 minutes on Saturday - pressing the game suits our play.
I doubt Wake will get much in the way of change up front, but will likely make it awkward for the Dundee defence and might just snatch something. Likely Russell will partner him and hopefully can create something.

In reality it isn't unfeasible that we could draw, nay win at Dens (anything would be a great result) but as ever the odds are stacked against us.
Mebbe we'll be a cracking "away team".
Hopeful 1-1.

CUTHBERT

WALKER GREACEN HARDING SHIMMIN


FINLAYSON JENKINS MCGUFFIE MCALISTER



RUSSELL WAKE

That would be my team i think we can nick a point or maybe a win

2 - 2

Swap Shimmin and Walker and I wouldn't be suprised if that were our starting XI.

I dont know about greacen i know he wasnt playing against livvy wonder what was wrong will he be fit for the weekend?

why swap Walker and Shimmin about when Walker has proven that he's good enough at left back and Shimmin has never played leftback?

i still think we need Paartalu in there, even if he's having a bad game he at least stays in the defensive position. Mcguffie and Jenkins would both go forward.

i think we need 5 in midfield if we're going to get anything, so Mcguffie, Jenkins and Paartalu. Also think Finlayson and Mcalisters ability to Track back will be vital, as will Alan Mcmanus being allowed nowhere near the pitch. Shimmin, Greacen and Harding in defence with Wake and Russell up front and there is possibility for either 1-1 draw or maybe 2-1 win hopefully.

Some sort of minor injury, although I doubt he'd have started anyway.
Would most likely be available if irons wants him to play.
Irons said that a few players let him down on Saturday, based on subs and common sense I'd suggest he was pointing to:
Newby
Masterton
McManus
Possibly Paartalu
If the first two play then Irons is still showing considerable faith in new signings rather than actually basing it on form.
I think Newby would offer an interesting threat to the Dees but on form he can't really justify his place, neither can McManus.
Masterton will surely be dropped.
He might well keep Paartalu in because of his height and looked very good at Broadwood under similar circumstances - when given time on the ball though his limitations are clear to see. Wouldn't be suprised either way on that choice.

Anything apart from a win will be unacceptable but by the looks of things we could have McKeown and/or Cameron back. If so roll on saturday!

------------------Cuthbert

Shimmin--Greacen--McManus--Walker

------------------Paartalu

Finlayson--McGuffie--Jenkins--McAlister

--------------------Wake

Above is how I'd play it his weekend. Plenty of attacking support there and I prefer having Paartalu in the middle of a 3 in midfield. If it's not working out then we'd have a strong bench with Russell, Newby, Weatherson and Masterton giving plenty of options to change it around. We need to work at being more solid, and a back 4 with Paartalu sitting just in front of them will be a good start.

I think we will win this one 2-0,we are looking strong at the back and our front 2 should have a better day than last saturday.

Well, assuming Freddie starts, you won't need to worry about whichever starts at left-back.

I hope we'll go with:



However, I expect Rae will play Daquin at right mid, and that McKeown may not be ready, so Williams will fill in at centre-back again. Also, Paton may keep his place at right-back, but I still feel Cowan would be preferable there.

I think we need to view anything less than a win as disappointing, but I am confident we will indeed get the points. I don't think it will be an easy win but I'm pretty confident we can get a clean sheet, especially if McKeown is fit to play. I think we shall see a return to scoring form for McMenamin, and that Curier will hit the net again. Prediction - 2-0.

Skint and can't go - thankfully.

Play anything like we did last saturday and I suspect the score will be in double figures, maybe triple.

We surely cannot drop paton who has been great for us since signing,also cant see McKeown starting.

If Rae has had Morton watched and the spy share's vikingTON's opinion of their full-backs, then he MUST start with Gilhaney and O'Brien on the wings. 

They're generally good at getting past defenders and against poor ones they'd run riot (provided they themselves are at the races, of course).

However, I just have a feeling Freddie will be started yet again despite two pretty poor performances in a row.

I think this weekend will come to soon for Cameron. I cant see AR starting McKeown either and I am Pretty sure the manager will stick with Freddie.

We might see the best of Williams and Pozinak as they should be almost 100% fit by then, so unless somebody does a Derek Lyle and falls over a coffee table, I think we will be unchanged.

This is one game that we should be looking to win, especially at home, if we want to win the league.

Verdict: Dundee 2 Morton 0

Gilhaney was awful on Saturday. O'Brien for me offers very litttle.

I have only been to the Clyde game this season, so haven't seen alot of Paton. I'm just going by what I have seen of Cowan last season, which was enough for me to hope for him to be our first-choice right-back. I would be perfectly happy to have Paton playing there. In fact, as you say, McKeown is likely to miss out, so Cowan may even play at centre-back, as Williams may not yet be fully fit.

I'd be shocked if there is any change to the starting eleven from Saturday.

Agreed. I'd still obviously prefer Freddie being replaced by OB as he is direct.

If we're all going to criticise players in our team after poor performances, IMO you should look at Messer Gilhaney who has had a couple of stinkers, Freddie is just being Freddie, which frustrates people as he isn't a direct player. Mags is just not getting it going, that WILL change soon however as we saw what he can do last season at Hamilton.

My line-up:

Douglas
Paton McKenzie Williams Malone
O'Brien McHale Pozniak Gilhaney
McMenamin Curier

Subs: Ludo, Cowan, Freddie, Davidson, Deasley.

Everyone keeps going on about Freddy being replaced "yes i agree" but most fans know that wont happen though. I suppose we can only hope.

I would like O'brien to start instead of freddy.

Dundee to win 3-1

0-0 for me. If Daquin starts again I think myself and others will start questioning if Rae is the right man for the job.

Gilhaney has been average so far, so why not put him out to the right (given that he's right footed) and put O'Brien on the left. Cowan in for Williams, unless McKeown is fit.

I certainly wouldn't. Daquin does add a balance to the side. He has been poor but Alex picks the side and until we start losing games i'm happy with what ever side he feels is right.



No he's not.



Williams has been solid. The only way i see Cowan fitting back in would be with him at right back and Paton being pushed into the midfield. This for me would be the answer to the right midfield problem as it would keep players in positions they are comfortable and keep the balance.

Agreed once more. Williams reads the game on an excellent level which rids his lack of pace (slight loss of pace IMO) and his experience helps McKenzie learn leadership skills for in the future as IMO the long term plan is to have Gary as Cappin.

On the Paton as RM role, I'd give him a go for the final 20 / 30 on Saturday after giving Freddie his run. See how he copes in our structure and that could give us another dimension.

No offence intended, but you don't have a clue.

Gilhaney is a left midfielder, who plays a role not atypical of the one Gavin Swankie adoped last season for us. So, why adjust his role just to accomodate for someone else? He is most effective at left midfield, so that's where he should and will stay.

In fact, assuming O'Brien is left footed, why not try him in a right midfield role, antagonistic of the one Gilhaney plays on the left?

It would be optomistic to foresee any kind of result in Dundee.

We looked out of sorts last week, this is not the ideal game to see if we have improved on that.

I think Morton will get hammered.

Surely if Cowan is available again then Paton should be odds on to start in RM ahead of Daquin. Paton offers far more and doesn't affect the balance of the team either IMO it adds to it as Daquin rarely offers anything going forward. That is the only change I can see happening. I'd also like to see Mearns with a place on the bench, he's had 2 good showings against the junior sides after a fairly lacklustre perfromance against Aberdeen. I think he deserves another chance.

Have you seen much of Gilhaney playing Right Mid??

No, I've not. I'm taking Hamilton fan's views on him as a right midfielder, and they say he is far more effective as a left midfielder. After all, their view is the most reliable one.

He hasn't really done much at all for us yet, hopefully that will change.

Well, I really hope your right m8!

But Dundee are nowwhere near at their best yet. Yes, players are missing but while 7 out of 9 is a good start, the performances have not been that convincing. AR has stated himself we are not at the races yet.

This game is by no means a formality. If we win by more than 2 goals I will be surprised and like I said before I dont think AR will change anything, but I would like to see Paton at RM for Freddie.

FREDDIE MUST GO. This man brings he haw to the team and now that he is in the huff its best all round if the player and Dundee come to some form of agreement over severance pay and release him.

Some players appear to be reluctant to pass to him now, his work rate rose to shoddy on Saturday and generally his heart aint in it.

He has had chance after chance and hasn't taken any of them.

I think Gilhaney has been OK but has lacked support from midfield when he goes up the wing, hopefully this will change when CC is fit.

Looking forward to the game on Saturday, always had a soft spot for Morton, in fact the only team west of Stirling that I do have a soft spot for!

Decent support despite being close to Glasgow, Arthur Montford (legend) and Andy Ritchie probably the reasons why.

We will need to raise our game from last weeks performance. It was only after 15-20 mins we started to play against Airdrie, and then we failed to score in a 20 min spell which we had them under pressure. After that, we kind of ran out of ideas, and we failed to get the ball to either wing, resorting to playing the ball up to MAC with his back to the goal.

I, like many would like to see O'Brien start, and freddie dropped, but doubt it will happen. I reckon the best we can hope for is Cowan back in at RB, with Paton playing RM.

GK : Rab Douglas
RB: David Cowan
CB: MacKenzie
CB: Williams
RM: Paton
CM: McHale
CM: Pozniak (Doubt Cameron will be fit)
LM: Gilhaney
ST: McMenamin
ST: Curier

BigAl, we'll need to raise our game and some if you're planning on us only starting with 10 players

You'd still win.

I guess Eddie must have been really crap against Airdrie!

Playing Daquin is a total imbalance because its like playing with 10 men. What use is a winger who doesn't want the ball?

For me Williams has been far from solid, his extreme lack of pace was found out many times against Clyde and Airdrie. Being very small for a centre half is also a disadvantage given the long ball nature of this league. Cowan has pace, is good in the air and has looked very good at CB. More so than at right back IMO



And your the be all and end all of football opinions are you?

From what I've seen of Gilhaney, he isn't half the player that Swankie was last season. If it is going to benefit the team why not adjust his role? More often that not he goes to the outside of the full-back anyway, meaning he has to cross with his left foot which he can't do. It's not as if he would be playing CB or CF, its the same role just on the other wing.

It's plainly obvious that we have no creativity in our team at all. Surely trying to accomadate 2 pacy direct wingers, getting rid of a wasted jersey in the process, is an obvious solution.

On that point, I wouldn't expect anything less than a piss poor away crowd for this one, given Saturday's performance, our record at dens, price and distance of travel, not to mention it being just 3 days before the Hibs game and a week before a trip to the Fourth Reich.
I'm sure the stewards will still be utter c***s to those like myself who will travel though.

One of the best, I would say.

It's always going to be a topic of debate, falls into the same category as I've got a bigger dick than you. You're always going to prefer your own.

If you drop Freddie for O'Brien and then add Cameron to the midfield, inplace of one of the current 2 (probably Pozniak) then we end up with a very skilfull, but physically limited midfield. This may work if we are playing in a skillful league in a warm country, but to win the Scottish first division takes a certain amount of brawn as well as brain. Given that he is 1,87 and fast, I don't see Freddie being dropped.

First of all Freddie isn't a winger. Never has been. He's a right sided midfield. He isn't the greatest player in the world but he isn't totally useless. I've already said i'd play Cowan right back and Paton in right midfield cause for me thats the only solution. Gilhaney isn't right footed and during the friendly against Stirling when he played right mid he offered less than Daquin has in the past two matches.

We'll have to disagree on Williams. I'm very happy with him at the back. He was caught out once against Clyde but for me didn't put a foot wrong on Saturday. Cowan isn't a center back and i don't feel at ease when he's in the center of defence.

Are you sure? he doesn't look at all left footed either to me.

Yes he is on both cases.

So his performance in one pre-season friendly is enough to right him off, and instead favour a guy who is yet to have a good game for us.

Gilhaney hasn't delivered the goods so far this season. O'Brien has looked lively every time he has came on. Daquin is rank. O'Brien on the left, Gilhaney on the right.

I've had a look at some of the DFCTV highlights and i'm not convinced Gils in right footed. From memory i'd say he is not. His performance in one pre season game and the fact he played left mid for Hamilton.

To say Freddie hasn't had a good game is totally untrue.



Can't agree. Like i've said i'd play Paton in right mid. Gilhaney has impressed on the left in certain games and i can't see why you'd change him from his natural position.

Same here. I think he's right footed. He seems to dribble with his right foot more often than not.

No, I'm not. You said that people would begin to question Alex Rae as manager of Dundee, should he retain Freddie Daquin in the starting line-up on Saturday coming. That is a tad presumptious and a bit over the top, in my opinion. Alex Rae knows more about football than we do, so your first comment is laughable, hence, why I said you don't have a clue.

Gilhaney is a left mifielder, and is most effective playing in this position, as any Hamilton fan will tell you. So, changing him to another role, would be counter productive.

totally agree.

i think we'll take the 3 pts on saturday maybe a 2-0 win.anything less is poor, we will only win this league if we can take 3 pts off teams like morton, i would line up.......

Douglas

Cowan MacKenzie Williams Malone

Paton (to be replaced by Mearns??) McHale Pozniak Gilhaney


Curier McMenamin

What is laughable about it?

Daquin has been useless in every game he has played this season. He can't dribble, he can't pass and he can't tackle. Other players have now stopped passing the ball to him. If Rae can't spot this then surely his managerial ability has to be questioned?

It won't be counter-productive at all. There is no question that Gilhaney is better than Daquin, and for me O'Brien has looked more effective than Gilhaney thus far. Regardless if Gilhaney is playing on his less favoured wing, the team will have been strengthened and hopefully the lact of creativity solved.

What balance does he actually add????
Ive heard you say that a few times on here now and its utter pish (no offence).
Im not part of this "we hate freddie" crew as ill support whoever plays for dundee, but this balance malarky just doesnt justify him getting a game.
I understand the meaning of balance and the importance of it but freddie just doesnt add it.
In my opinion if it was balance that rae was so keen on, then the obvious starter in this position would be paton,as his natural position is right back, so then his natural mindset is to attack when the team is going forward, and defend when not.
Freddie cannot do either

Please explain what you see that i dont

Freddie is a right sided midfielder. The only one we have therefore without him we'd have a central player filling in there. The very move that saw Kev McDonald look so poor two seasons ago. This is the balance he adds to the midfield.

I agree regarding Paton but since the league started Alex hasn't had enough players fit to play Cowan right back and Paton further forward. I would think when he has his full side to pick from he will go with that set up on the right.