Skyline Drifter
Aug 15 2008, 09:51
Mihaly Fabian (Hungary) v NordsjaellandNow that's surreal!
Very picky. Challenges that would have been ignored in Scotland not only routinely generated free kicks but even in a couple of cases bookings!

Yet missed a very obvious foul on Craig Reid in the build up to them hitting the bar first half. Our goal in fairness came from a free kick awarded for one of many imaginary fouls he invented.
Same for both teams though and they seemed as mystified by some of the decisions as we were. Very demonstrative when showing yellow cards too.
Did okay, no more, no less. 6/10
GypsyTillIDie
Aug 16 2008, 18:41
Calum Murray.
Not a bad performance. Got most things right except from free-kick decision which resulted in their second goal.
7/10.
David W
Aug 17 2008, 14:30
QUOTE (GypsyTillIDie @ Aug 16 2008, 19:41)

Calum Murray.
Not a bad performance. Got most things right except from free-kick decision which resulted in their second goal.
7/10.
Not sure about that! The free kick decision was a terrible one and he then missed a blatant penalty for RC. Ohnesorge picked up a booking, fair enough, it was a poor tackle but he only lunged in as he lost control of the ball due to a foul on him. Had a better second half but only 5/10 for me.
FTOF_PTFC_1
Aug 17 2008, 19:27
S.Nicholls
0/10
w**k.
Skyline Drifter
Aug 19 2008, 20:06
QUOTE (FTOF_PTFC_1 @ Aug 17 2008, 20:27)

S.Nicholls
0/10
w**k.
Based on?
The only decision of any consequence he got wrong all day was to allow Twaddle to stay on when he quite obviously should have been red carded. Had he done that the likelihood is the game would have been over as any sort of contest before half time. All credit to you if you're marking him down ten points for failing to send your own player off though.
In reality:
Steven Nicholls v Partick ThistleDifficult one because I actually thought he did a pretty good job. I think the bookings by and large were all fair enough (with the obvious exception of the one that should have been red) and he got all major decisions correct, including a quite obvious penalty that pretty much no Thistle fan has complained about. I'm pretty happy with his performance over the piece.
BUT..........
On a rules is rules basis (and I got criticised by Dunfermline fans last week for suggesting the ref could have used a bit of common sense instead of a rules is rules approach) quite in what reality a guy committing a foul on a player in the act of knocking the ball into the net from four yards out is NOT denying a goalscoring opportunity I have no earthly idea. It couldn't be anything else but a red card as soon as he awarded a penalty and therefore deemed it a foul. Where he found a reason to book Twaddle only I've no idea. I've no particular desire to see the guy red carded for what was a clumsy challenge but that's what the rules say and it's a pretty major thing to get wrong.
Overall I'm going to still give him 6/10 because I thought he did well apart from that but he'd have got more otherwise.
QUOTE (Skyline Drifter @ Aug 19 2008, 21:06)

In reality:
Steven Nicholls v Partick Thistle
Difficult one because I actually thought he did a pretty good job. I think the bookings by and large were all fair enough (with the obvious exception of the one that should have been red) and he got all major decisions correct, including a quite obvious penalty that pretty much no Thistle fan has complained about. I'm pretty happy with his performance over the piece.
BUT..........
On a rules is rules basis (and I got criticised by Dunfermline fans last week for suggesting the ref could have used a bit of common sense instead of a rules is rules approach) quite in what reality a guy committing a foul on a player in the act of knocking the ball into the net from four yards out is NOT denying a goalscoring opportunity I have no earthly idea. It couldn't be anything else but a red card as soon as he awarded a penalty and therefore deemed it a foul. Where he found a reason to book Twaddle only I've no idea. I've no particular desire to see the guy red carded for what was a clumsy challenge but that's what the rules say and it's a pretty major thing to get wrong.
Overall I'm going to still give him 6/10 because I thought he did well apart from that but he'd have got more otherwise.
His linesman, the skinny streak that was in front of us gave some shocking offside decisions on Sunday!
Skyline Drifter
Aug 21 2008, 19:10
Mike McCurry at Dunfermline
Another excellent performance by an official who never seems to have a bad game when he does one of ours (I'm conscious of his personal nightmare in the Rangers Dundee United game last season). Couldn't pick a fault with him, though it was by and large a pretty easy game to referee.
9/10
EastFootball
Aug 23 2008, 20:12
John McKendrick, Dundee v Morton.
Very erratic and didn't let the game flow.
Some strange decisions for both sides and he wasn't helped by his stand-side assistant (although he did [correctly] overrule him, despite the latter being closer to the incident, which was a tad bizarre).
We won and I'm feeling generous, so 4/10.
Sao Paulo
Aug 23 2008, 20:33
Mike McCurry Vs. Livingston.
Three or four decisions which I thought were patently wrong, the majority involved Scott Gemmill. However he didn't seem to mess anything major up. Not the centre piece of the match or anything so...
7/10. Probably one of the better referees on the go at the moment. (Worrying?)
Sao Paulo
Aug 23 2008, 21:35
Mike McCurry Vs. Livingston.
Three or four decisions which I thought were patently wrong, the majority involved Scott Gemmill. however he didn't seem to mess anything major up. Not the centre piece of the match or anything so...
7/10. Probably one of the better referees on the go at the moment. (Worrying?)
EastFootball
Aug 23 2008, 21:46
Echo...
(1 hour and 2 minutes later)
Echo...
GypsyTillIDie
Aug 24 2008, 11:00
McCurry was at fault for their first goal. It really wasn't a free-kick when Gemmill won the ball. Then the ball got hoofed up the park, broke to McPartland and scored. Apart from that, he was not bad. Not the worst I've seen this season
6/10
Sao Paulo
Aug 24 2008, 12:41
QUOTE (GypsyTillIDie @ Aug 24 2008, 12:00)

McCurry was at fault for their first goal. It really wasn't a free-kick when Gemmill won the ball. Then the ball got hoofed up the park, broke to McPartland and scored. Apart from that, he was not bad. Not the worst I've seen this season
6/10
Was that the one where Gemmill used the heel of his boot to win the ball effectively? I thought that was a scandalous call too. Totally legitimate claim of the ball.
vikingTON
Aug 24 2008, 13:52
QUOTE (EastFootball @ Aug 23 2008, 21:12)

John McKendrick, Dundee v Morton.
Very erratic and didn't let the game flow.
Some strange decisions for both sides and he wasn't helped by his stand-side assistant (although he did [correctly] overrule him, despite the latter being closer to the incident, which was a tad bizarre).
We won and I'm feeling generous, so 4/10.
We lost and I'm not feeling generous, so 2/10.
I can still hear his whistle...
David W
Aug 24 2008, 14:23
QUOTE (Sao Paulo @ Aug 23 2008, 21:33)

Mike McCurry Vs. Livingston.
Three or four decisions which I thought were patently wrong, the majority involved Scott Gemmill. However he didn't seem to mess anything major up. Not the centre piece of the match or anything so...
7/10. Probably one of the better referees on the go at the moment. (Worrying?)
Not surprising he gifted them a couple of decisions given some of the comments from our support. Absolutely embarrassing.
I'd give him 7/10 as well.
PTFC27
Aug 24 2008, 20:50
Mike Tumilty - Thistle v St. Johnstone
Made a few mistakes but he can't be expected to get everything right.
8/10
Exuberant
Aug 24 2008, 20:53
QUOTE (PTFC27 @ Aug 24 2008, 21:50)

Mike Tumilty - Thistle v St. Johnstone
Made a few mistakes but he can't be expected to get everything right.
8/10
Well, he was a pedant at times, but rightly booked Mr Hardie for his nutter antics!
Radford
Aug 27 2008, 07:45
QUOTE (RoryN @ Aug 21 2008, 15:55)

His linesman, the skinny streak that was in front of us gave some shocking offside decisions on Sunday!
Steven Nicholls (Livingston vs St Johnstone)I wonder if they work in teams as we had Nicholls last night and to be frank, he was an absolute disagrace, as was his farside linesman. Whenever he made a good decision, it was no surprise to see it was usually spotted by the assistant on the nearside of the pitch. If players talk back then they deserve to get booked for dissent but we had three players carded for that offence such was the frustration he was causing. I'm genuinely at a loss to catalogue all the errors he made but it was just a nightmare performance exacerbated by the smug grin he had on his coupon all night. Hugh Dallas was supposedly appraising him in the stand and I was never a fan of Dallas but he can't have been impressed.
In saying all that, there were no massive mistakes from him, just a feeling that he was against us and we seemed to have to work twice as hard to try and win the game.
2/10
QUOTE (PTFC27 @ Aug 24 2008, 21:50)

Mike Tumilty - Thistle v St. Johnstone
Made a few mistakes but he can't be expected to get everything right.
8/10
Wouldn't stray too much from your assessment but not sure he merits an 8/10 as it wasn't the hardest game to referee. He didn't overact to a couple of cynical challenges from Saints players and I thought the booking of Hardie was a bit harsh, if anything he should have been cautioned for the dissent shown afterwards. An aboe average 7/10 though.
Missed this over the last few weeks but after praising him another thread, I thought Crawford Allan was very poor for us against the Pars but Chris Boyle had an ok game (by his standards) at Ochilview.
We have the in-the-news Eddie Smith on Saturday. He's quite up-and-down in my experience.
Skyline Drifter
Aug 27 2008, 11:04
Tony Chapron (France) at FC Nordsjaelland
Much better than the Hungarian chap from the first leg (though granted the conditions were more conducive to a normal game). Refereed firmly, didn't get an awful lot wrong, bookings were probably fair enough. Free kick for our goal was a correct decision as was the offisde shout on their equaliser (albeit that was down to the assistant, not him). Barr played Richter onside before he cut the ball back for Bernburg, I was right in line.
No complaints at all. 9/10
Dunning1874
Aug 27 2008, 11:45
Iain Brines; Hibernian v Morton
Mixu's up in arms about his performance, but I thought he was alright - certainly the best we've had so far this season, which perhaps says more about First Division referees than it does about him.
My heart sank when I saw he was the ref, but he was decent. I couldn't see the penalty incident clearly so can't say if he called that right, but I thought the freekick that led to our fourth was the correct decision. Paatelainen said it was "an assault on Chris Hogg".

Looked to me like Paartalu went up for the header first and was looking right at the ball, Hogg jumped after him and just tried to take him out the sir, just so happened that Paartalu landed on top of him.
He made a few bizarre decisions - some of the occasions where he overruled his assistants were strange, and he missed a few fouls, for example when Russell was chasing a through ball and looked like he would beat the keeper to it and Murray tugged him back - could have been a red, but he missed it. Players from both sides were penalised for challenges where they won the ball too.
All in all, not a terrible performance. 7/10.
diamondman
Aug 30 2008, 19:28
Alan Muir AUFC v Morton
Did well in my view, seemed keen to keep cards in pocket. Perhaps could have booked some more players but resisted. Sending off was blatant; so no issue there.
9/10 for me; but the view of the victor
vikingTON
Aug 30 2008, 19:34
Alan Muir
Really had bigger fish to fry today, but all in all the refereing performance was a decent to good standard, although in fairness it must have been a straightforward days work.
Felt McAllister's booking was a tad harsh, although there were no real grounds for complaint.
Sending off was rash and deserved.
8/10
David W
Aug 30 2008, 20:38
David Somers - Accies vs Clyde
Had a couple of poor decisions, a corner awarded to Accies when it clearly bounced off the Hamilton player and the late penalty was a terrible dive but didn't affect the game. Red card was maybe harsh but understandable. Thought he could've maybe awarded them a penalty in the first half when a cross struck Gibson on the hand. 6/10.
Eddie Smith - St J vs Clyde
Didn't have a good game unfortunately. A series of terrible throw in decisions against St Johnstone in the first 10 minutes set the tone for the game, booked McCaffrey when Hardie had got away with 2/3 fouls and made a whole host of bizarre decisions including a late freekick when Higgins showed the ball out of play. It possibly could be a free kick but it is NEVER given. There might've been a foul for their second goal, Ohnesorge certainly thought so but I couldn't see one. A terrible offside decision against Gemmill contributed to it. Only 3/10 from me.
EastFootball
Aug 30 2008, 22:37
Iain Brines, Queens v Dundee.
He's left me wondering what's the point in going to football.
And that takes some doing.
Not blaming him for our loss (normally I'd just look on it as a bad day and be looking to the next game); he was worse than awful when it came to both sides.
I cannot give any score that would be an accurate reflection of his performance.
Skyline Drifter
Aug 30 2008, 22:49
QUOTE (EastFootball @ Aug 30 2008, 23:37)

Iain Brines, Queens v Dundee.
He's left me wondering what's the point in going to football.
And that takes some doing.
Not blaming him for our loss (normally I'd just look on it as a bad day and be looking to the next game); he was worse than awful when it came to both sides.
I cannot give any score that would be an accurate reflection of his performance.
Have to say I failed to see Brines do a lot wrong today so your comment surprises me.
Wasn't an especially difficult game to referee, not a lot of major incident. Nothing important wrong. Thought a couple of throws were probably given the wrong way (though that is the assistant's fault) and I recall one free kick given to us for a foul on Thomson that I thought was the other way if anything but nothing crucial.
Didn't have a problem with his performance. 7/10
EastFootball
Aug 30 2008, 23:04
I'll be very surprised if you're not in a minority of one.
Skyline Drifter
Aug 30 2008, 23:38
QUOTE (EastFootball @ Aug 31 2008, 00:04)

I'll be very surprised if you're not in a minority of one.
Mmm. There's a seven page thread on the game already and nobody other than you from either side has even mentioned the referee. I'm drawing a conclusion no-one else was overly bothered about him.
I'm not saying it was a great performance but he did nothing significant wrong and in the scheme of refereeing ineptness that showing was nowhere near the worst we'll see this season. It probably won't be the worst we'll see this week.
G_Man1985
Aug 31 2008, 00:28
QUOTE (Skyline Drifter @ Aug 31 2008, 00:38)

Mmm. There's a seven page thread on the game already and nobody other than you from either side has even mentioned the referee. I'm drawing a conclusion no-one else was overly bothered about him.
I'm not saying it was a great performance but he did nothing significant wrong and in the scheme of refereeing ineptness that showing was nowhere near the worst we'll see this season. It probably won't be the worst we'll see this week.
Reason we dundee fans have not mentioned it "well me anyway" is pretty much because we played sh#t and well no point blaming anything on the ref even if he was sh#t also when your team was playing sh#t.
The ref got a fair bit wrong in my opinion but didnt let it bother me to much as dundee were terrible
VitalDees
Aug 31 2008, 07:41
QUOTE (Skyline Drifter @ Aug 30 2008, 23:49)

Have to say I failed to see Brines do a lot wrong today so your comment surprises me.
Wasn't an especially difficult game to referee, not a lot of major incident. Nothing important wrong. Thought a couple of throws were probably given the wrong way (though that is the assistant's fault) and I recall one free kick given to us for a foul on Thomson that I thought was the other way if anything but nothing crucial.
Didn't have a problem with his performance. 7/10
Brines was terrible.
Radford
Aug 31 2008, 07:49
QUOTE (David W @ Aug 30 2008, 21:38)

Eddie Smith - St J vs Clyde
Didn't have a good game unfortunately. A series of terrible throw in decisions against St Johnstone in the first 10 minutes set the tone for the game, booked McCaffrey when Hardie had got away with 2/3 fouls and made a whole host of bizarre decisions including a late freekick when Higgins showed the ball out of play. It possibly could be a free kick but it is NEVER given. There might've been a foul for their second goal, Ohnesorge certainly thought so but I couldn't see one. A terrible offside decision against Gemmill contributed to it. Only 3/10 from me.
Maybe because Nicholls was so bad during the week but I didn't think Smith was the worst we've had. I didn't see too much amiss with Holmes goal and whilst the Higgins thing is one you don't see often he did try and run it out from far too far back, must've been a good 7 or 8 metres.
Maybe slightly below what should be average but still a 5/10.
Jamie_Beatson
Aug 31 2008, 13:57
Eddie Smith gets 3/10 from me. Some bizarre decisions, not least the booking for Liam Craig. Craig was fairly tackled by the Clyde player, and fell forward over the ball. Clyde man attempted to chase ball but went over as part of the same movement. Just inside Saints half so not in a particularly dangerous position. Result, yellow for Craig.
Dunning1874
Aug 31 2008, 19:41
Anyone know who was the referee for Airdrie v Morton?
Anyway, this guy had a great game IMO. On occasion we did seem to be getting a few decisions purely out of sympathy, and he missed one strong penalty shout for both teams for handball, but he had a good game and was hardly noticed, the way it should be. Could maybe have booked a few players for tactical fouls, but trying to keep the cards out of it was fair enough. Absolutely spot on with the red card.
9/10 - Going on 10, but the penalty shouts cost him.
Skyline Drifter
Aug 31 2008, 22:33
QUOTE (Dunning1874 @ Aug 31 2008, 20:41)

Anyone know who was the referee for Airdrie v Morton?
It was due to be Radford's friend Alan Muir. Unless there was a late change for any reason?
Dunning1874
Aug 31 2008, 22:44
QUOTE (Skyline Drifter @ Aug 31 2008, 23:33)

It was due to be Radford's friend Alan Muir. Unless there was a late change for any reason?
Bloody hell, it was. That's two games in a row we've had referees who are usually hopeless and they've had decent games.
Don't tell Mixu Paatelainen that though.
Deestruction
Sep 1 2008, 15:00
QUOTE (VitalDees @ Aug 31 2008, 08:41)

Brines was terrible.

I saw that you were jumping mental with the group who got frustrated at our performance and blamed the ref. Completely wrong, other than 1 or 2 minor decisions he had a fair game.
We shouldda had a decision towards the end and Queens fans think (DUnno why) that they should have had a free kick leading to our goal.
S_Ds assessment is very fair. 7/10 from me too.
Skyline Drifter
Sep 1 2008, 16:01
QUOTE (Deestruction @ Sep 1 2008, 16:00)

We shouldda had a decision towards the end and Queens fans think (DUnno why) that they should have had a free kick leading to our goal.
Don't think generally they do. One or two appealled but it was half hearted. All of the footage shows it was a perfectly good challenge.
GypsyTillIDie
Sep 1 2008, 17:17
Eddie Smith
Thought he was OK, no the best, certainly not the worst. Gave a couple of daft decisions but generally let the game flow.
6/10
Deestruction
Sep 2 2008, 01:48
QUOTE (Skyline Drifter @ Sep 1 2008, 17:01)

Don't think generally they do. One or two appealled but it was half hearted. All of the footage shows it was a perfectly good challenge.
Fair enough, read a couple of comments on here about people putting up a half-hearted "Come on ref" and on thon YouTube clips, but agree, would have been soft, and was a good decision by Brines.
Funnily enough though, I was in the ground at about 2:25 and was talking to a mate while the refs were out doing their warm up. When out of the blue, a guy 2 rows in front of me stands up and begins the abuse on Brines a good half an hour before the game begins and to the hilarity of my pal and I continued this throughout the game. Including on decisions that went our way wrongly (IE throwins).
Skyline Drifter
Sep 4 2008, 14:44
Brian Winter v Ross County
Yeah, did ok. Not a referee I'm normally a big fan of but I thought he was fine last night. Let play flow quite a lot when other refs might have kept giving free kicks. County weren't happy with that approach and Derek Adams was constantly yelling at him and his assistant. Big late call when he said Craig Sives got the ball in a last ditch tackle which I'd agree with but then I would. County thought it was a penalty.
8/10 from me.
Sao Paulo
Sep 7 2008, 18:53
Steve Conroy. Clyde Vs. Ross County
0/10.
Between himself and his linesman they displayed little control over proceedings and got a wealth of decisions wrong.
The best example of this ineptitude would be their failure to reprimand or otherwise deal with Adams' and Brown's ventures onto the park during play.
David W
Sep 7 2008, 19:02
Absolutely terrible display from Conroy; the near side official probably made more decisions that he did. They managed to miss a trip on McGregor before his second yellow and a shove on McKay in the box in the second half by Dowie. Wasn't convinced by the freekick for which McGregor got his first yellow and added to that, I thought it was in the box. Then they missed a handball from the resulting strike on goal. In fairness, he did notice that County's bibs clashed with our strip. I did like how they gave the managers a free run of the touchline as well.
clyde4ever
Sep 7 2008, 19:08
I agree that Conroy and the standside assistant in particular were shocking.
According to my mate who was in line, the first McGregor booking wasn't a foul - but was definitely inside the box.
Conroy gives a free-kick outside the box and only books McGregor (although he was last man).
The second booking was farcical. A blatant foul on McGregor, 2 yards away from the assistant - who doesn't give it. McGregor now flat out on the ground punches the ball away, after he in turn has fouled the County player. Everybody assumed a foul had been given one way or the other before McGregor handled it - but not according to the assistant. Up goes his flag, over trots Conroy, and off goes McGregor.
Stupidity on McGregor's part. Total incompetency from the standside assistant. Total lack of common sense from Conroy who could easily have dealt with his by awarding a free-kick to County (even although it should have been to us).
2/10.
PS - Just for the record, County were the better team and fully deserved to win.
Scotchpie
Sep 7 2008, 19:47
QUOTE (clyde4ever @ Sep 7 2008, 20:08)

I agree that Conroy and the standside assistant in particular were shocking.
According to my mate who was in line, the first McGregor booking wasn't a foul - but was definitely inside the box.
Conroy gives a free-kick outside the box and only books McGregor (although he was last man).
The second booking was farcical. A blatant foul on McGregor, 2 yards away from the assistant - who doesn't give it. McGregor now flat out on the ground punches the ball away, after he in turn has fouled the County player. Everybody assumed a foul had been given one way or the other before McGregor handled it - but not according to the assistant. Up goes his flag, over trots Conroy, and off goes McGregor.
Stupidity on McGregor's part. Total incompetency from the standside assistant. Total lack of common sense from Conroy who could easily have dealt with his by awarding a free-kick to County (even although it should have been to us).
2/10.
PS - Just for the record, County were the better team and fully deserved to win.
Conroy is a total Fud and the Linesman was gagging to make a name for himself. He was determined not to turn around to look at the dugouts despite the noise from the stand. If he doesnt see it he doesnt have to deal with it. Fanny
If anyone is unsure about the difference between a fud and a fanny it because one was on the park and one at the side. Two for the price of on if you like! A Threesome even!
I wish the SFA would bloody well do something apart from hand out pay rises. The game is being ruined.
All this despite the fact Clyde didnt desreve to win, They did though deserve a fair chance!
Skyline Drifter
Sep 7 2008, 20:37
Willie Collum v Morton
Did okay I suppose over the piece. Didn't get anythign important wrong and a pretty easy game to referee. He was fairly lenient to both sides as far as tackles are concerned. Ryan Harding fouled Dobbie for about the 6th time before he even had a word with him about it and, having made a song and dance about calling him over, he left it at a word anyway and didn't produce a yellow. Nothing was individually worth one but cumulatively?
Otherwise no complaint though so I'll go with 7/10.
EastFootball
Sep 13 2008, 21:38
Euan Norris, Dundee v Dunfermline.
Did OK. Got the sending-off spot on in my book, but was a bit inconsistent (e.g. giving a free-kick in midfield, but not giving a penalty for the same thing in the box).
Certainly not the worst I've seen. So I'll go for 6.5/10.
BluebirdTon
Sep 14 2008, 02:42
Willie Collum, Morton v QoS.
There wasn''t much to be contested to be fair and when called apon he didn't over react or under react - although the guy with the orange jacket at the bottom of the away end appeared to have had his wife shagged by him - he seemed to have a grudge against him.
AyrshireTon
Sep 14 2008, 09:54
QUOTE (BluebirdTon @ Sep 14 2008, 03:42)

Willie Collum, Morton v QoS.
There wasn''t much to be contested to be fair and when called apon he didn't over react or under react
The booking for the Queens keeper was very harsh.
Radford
Sep 14 2008, 10:20
We had Willie Collum in Dingwall yesterday, so he can't have done the Morton vs Queens match!
He was far from the worst we've had this season but still seemed to upset quite a large element of the Saints support. Made a few poor calls in tussles between strikers and centre backs but I didn't think he impacted on the game much at all.
Content to give up a slightly above average 7/10.
Linesman opposite the Main Stand was hilariously bad in both halves though.
GypsyTillIDie
Sep 14 2008, 10:44
Clyde vs Partick Thistle
Dougie McDonald
Let the game flow and got the penalty decision spot on. A couple of daft decisions for either side but was mainly consistent IMO. I can't really remember him getting anything blatantly wrong, except from failing to book Lennon's embarassing diving.
7/10
Dunning1874
Sep 14 2008, 12:58
Morton v Qos was Crawford Allan.
I don't think he was as bad as some are making out. The booking for the goalkeeper was the correct decision - he was simply applying the rules of the game. If a keeper handles outside the box accidentally it's a booking, and if he does it deliberately it's a red. As for the red card, Tosh shouldn't have been stupid enough to mouth off for no apparent reason in the first place.
6/10
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