The IRA are a terrorist organisation who got involved in sectarian attacks for years, you only had to look at Northern Ireland to see all the problems the UVF/UDA/IRA had, (and still are) causing.

Now, if you had to mention a time during your song where the IRA were a non terrorist organisation, then you would get alot less people complaining, and the ones who were would be the ones who just moan because they don't like you.

Whereas, when Rangers fans mention an organisation, its the "UVF - 36th Ulster Division", who happen to be helping the army fight for the UK during WWII.

But Celtic fans just shout "and the IRA" in the middle of songs, which can be blatantly pointed to the IRA who were involved in the sectarian attacks in recent years.

If the BNP were singing "the Bengal Famine is over, why don't you go home" to a crowd of British Asians, what would the reaction be?



Yeah, because a football derby is impossible without a bit of racism, peadophilia, terrorist worship, glorifying mass murder, religious bigotry etc How do they manage in Manchester, Liverpool, Tyne & Wear etc?



I tell you one thing that'll take you further away from Celtic - their flight to Villarreal in a couple of weeks, whilst you're sat in the house...



You should. I wouldn't want the "guilt by association" either. It's interesting that Celtic fans are aware of the bad name of Glasgow Rangers dragging them back, whilst The Huns seem happy to be "partners in crime".

I can't be arsed to read through all the religious pish in this topic and I have not heard the full version of this song but can someone please tell me why this song is considered bigoted/sectarian? From what I have read the "offensive" part of the song is asking why, when Celtic supporters are so happy to sing about how hard done by they were during the tattie blight, they don't go home now that there are plenty of spuds in the fields of Athenry.

Celtic fans are happy enough to call me a sheep shaggin' b*****d but I don't go crying to the Scottish executive claiming racism due to the fact I am aggrieved that my ancestors were driven from, burned out of their homes and at times murdered to make way for the animals that I am now accused of having affairs with. Personally I think, and I really do hate bigotry and as such both halves of the Old Firm in equal measure, that this has to be one of the most amusing songs I have heard recently from a football match. Get a grip Celtic fans I could understand your anger at a lot of other songs but if you are still so upset that you have to sing about a famine that happened many years ago then, as the huns told you, the famine is now well and truly over and if you like you can go back to your ancestral homeland and eat as much tatties as you can fit into your greetin' faces.

FYI I am a confirmed Pastafarian and as such find the in fighting amoungst you Christians quite comical.

Are you a taglatellie orthodox?

I do not discuss my religion too deeply for fear of upsetting some narrow minded little breakaway sects and causing a situation similar to the one which affects the peace loving Christians.

Splitter

QUOTE (My Garden Shed @ Sep 17 2008, 13:35)
The IRA weren't sectarian, they were happy to murder people of any (and no) religion - indescriminate bombs like in Omagh killed people of all faiths - to pretend that they were defending Catholicism whilst killing Catholics?


The IRA were not responsible for the Omagh bombing...

Don't touch the Ravioli!!

I'm sure the victims will appreciate the difference between the Real IRA, the Provisional IRA, the Official IRA, the Old IRA, the Continuity IRA...

The victims will know the difference.

They used to call Nelson Mandela a terrorist.

...and some still do. So?

and william wallace and the bruce were called terrorists

i dont wanna go home

Why do you Celtic fans feel the need to celebrate their Irish heritage and historical colours at football matches?

I don't feel the need to celebrate my Irish heritage at football matches.

And why do Celtic fans feel the need to sing songs with lyrics which include "soon there will be no Protestants at all", "dirty Orange bastards", "fuck King Billy and yer Knox" and a ditty about joining "the IRA - provisional wing".

Celtic fans have sung sectarian songs and songs in praise of the IRA at EVERY SINGLE game they have ever played at Love Street in the past 30 years.... and I would suspect they have been doing so at every other away ground as well.

Celtic and their supporters are in fact a blight on my Irish heritage.

That's the crux of the whole matter; you see it from where you're standing. Wallace was a brilliant patriot and freedom-fighter if you were Scottish and a terrorist if you were English. The IRA can be similarly viewed.

There is another aspect though; Wallace met his enemies face-to-face while the IRA hid bombs in shopping centres. Both were fighting for justifiable causes but one did it more heroically. By the way I'm not advocating that everyone lines up and runs at each other across a field (although the Old Firm fans have been known to).

Or alternatively they were all just a bunch of dicks.

My Garden Shed in sensible post shocker!

Imo, we could do worse than look to the English here.

A striking analogy, for me, is the developments down south - which perhaps culminated with the Lawrence enquiry. Needless to say as the English police reformed there were reactionary elements to the fore, ranting to the effect that victims should "go back" to "the jungle" or whatever, if they didn't like British "justice". Incredible as it might seem now this disgusting racism was very possibly the majority view.

But credit to the English if they didn't follow things through to the end. Declaring various bodies "institutionally racist" was the line in the sand which allowed everyone to know where they stood. Since then we have had a much more transparency, fairness, equality etc. etc.

Sadly I suspect there is a reluctance in Scotland to follow suit. Since calling a spade a spade and publically admitting the huns are "institutionally sectarian" might leave various other bodies open to investigation.

The Chinese have a saying "if you pull on one grass root you eventually get the whole meadow"

Using an expression like the Huns is the same as saying the Chinkys or the Darkies, which I see you didn't use. Are you just selectively racist?

Very much so. Celtic fans who sing songs in praise of disgusting murdering terrorist scum shame me, and all decent people with Irish heritage.

Day 9 of the great famine song debate.

They will be teaching this news in schools soon it's that old!

It would be good if it was used in an anti-racism campaign, yes.

One man's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter?




Seriously

Yes.

It is up to individuals whether they believe the cause these terrorists killed to further was just, and also whether their methods were necessary, or not.

It's a common discussion point, terrorists dinnae fight fair and randomly killed people, an army fights fair and sometimes has collateral damage and friendly fire incidents.

It also changes hugely if you win, from where you view, and when it happened apparently

There are distinct differences between 'official' and 'unofficial' fighting forces. Again. it is individual choice to decide whether that has anything to do with 'fair', 'just' or any other value judgement they wish to place on it.


Not really. A matter of individual interpretation again. If anyone bothers that is.

Half of the meadow is yours.

It depends what your cause is and why you felt the need to take up arms. Then, having done so, what your tactics were and how you went about it.

If I think Falkirk should be free, gather a few supporters and blow up Tesco in the Retail Park to prove my point, I will be judged accoriding to the above standards.

Ah right, good I was telling this loud mouth yank that we don't want any of that terrorist sick anthem played over here, and i tolf him to sick his general george washington up his arse, don't get me started on Ben-Gurion or Menachem Began, although I suppose he did get the Nobel peace prize, Hmm Mandela

There are still plenty of people who think both of the latter gentlemen you have named were terrorists, and did not have a cause which justified their actions. I may even be one of them

You're not suggesting that the American forces in the 1770s were in any way 'unofficial' are you?

Maybe a bad example that you picked up on rather than the others which I thnk satisfy my point

Which is what?

I'm quite embarassed by this reaction. I feel I've let myself down here folks, sorry



Bigot

Behind Enemy Lines?

That £the state" can indeed change someones "status" from terroist to a freedom fighter




If I remember correctly the majory of Yankees didnae want to pap us oot, some revolutionaries or terrorists destroyed British property

It, perhaps, highlights the conditions that are necessary to 'legitimise' a fighting force in the eyes of a broader range of people.

And how do you do that with a pitchfork against a tank.

No they can't.

They can make someone a statesman. The cannot change what people's perceptions of them are and were.

The fact Began and Ben-Gurion became statesmen does not chnage the fact that many people believe they were terrorists, without a just cause.

If Nelson Mandela was still in prison and South Africa was still a white supremacist state, he would still be a heroic freedom fighter in my eyes. His becoming a statesman is irrelevant.

On the other hand, Martin McGuinness in a suit doesn't change what he was.

I love wallace, but I take it your knowledge of him is by watching braveheart,, but the fact is that wallace was an evil murdering b*****d . who along with his men murdered slaughtered and raped their way around northern england often wiping entire villages of the map, and of course he thought face to face ,there were no bombs then If he had bombs i've no doubt he would have planted them everywhere
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken68.html

Rubbish Lords, ladies gentlemen, terrorists, I welcome you to Buckinghan palace state rooms/ Stockholn Nobel prize giving ceremony

I wonder if things like this give the old firm money men something else to talk about after they both decide to levy a 5% fee on ticket sales.

Their fans love to talk about their rivalry, but its all money at the end of the day.

I was quite annoyed by Braveheart because I do know the real story of Wallace or at least those versions which were passed down by Blind Harry for the Scots and the English chroniclers on the aother hand and they make contrasting reading, as you would expect, confirming my original statement. On your main point, yes he almost invented guerrilla warfare when he wasn't in a position to fight the enemy in the field but he did do so when he had to and reportedly performed heroically (apart from a wee suggestion that he ran away at Falkirk when the day was lost, but I think we can excuse him that). What is certain is that he didn't try to hide his identity. He more or less said "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough". That's why he is viewed heroically whereas if his gang had remained an anonymous band of guerrillas attacking and running away he wouldn't have been accorded that mantle.

Oh dear,, A classic example of of one people's terrorist is another peoples freedom fighter.like I said I love Wallace because he fought for independence, remember this is the man who saw any symbol of English authority in Scotland as a legitimate target to be killed, as he never accepted his country being ruled by England , (sound familiar)and yes he did invent guerrilla warfare which isn't "come and have a go" it's hit and run=terrorism!
I think you will also find that the early IRA did fight the British in numerous face to face battles, but at the end of the day if you are militarily outnumbered is it brave or stupid to fight face to face? hence terrorism!
When the British/USA Bombed Iraq at the start of the gulf war FROM THE AIR! without any fear of being challenged is that bravery or terrorism?
When the British/US put a trade embargo (backed by force)on Iran,North Korea etc causing millions to starve to death is that heroic or terrorism?
Were the French Resistance (who bombed people while they sat drinking coffee, because they saw as illegal occupiers)hero's or terrorist's
was Che a terrorist ?
was Pancho villa?
is anyone who fights back against (what they regard as an illegal occupier a terrorist or a national hero?
at the end of the day you are only viewed as "heroic" by the people you are deemed to be fighting for , and thus as a terrorist by those you're fighting against
and as such there is no point trying to tell Irish people or people from Irish decent that the IRA etc are terrorist scum and the British army/government are legit!

also Blind harry wrote his version of Wallace a few hundered years after he died!
a bit like David Edgar writting King Billy's heroic adventures now.

Ps who know's maybe in 700 years collins,adams,Mcguiness will be Irish "bravehearts"

FFS your not allowed to even open your mouth these days without being racist/bigoted/a terroist

This song is clearly only taking the piss. As do many celtic songs aimed back at Rangers.It is the same at clubs all over Scotland, not just the Old Firm.

The fun has been taking out of Football

What relevance does the Nobel prize have?

Do people suddenly think "Oh no, I thought he was a terrorist scumbag, but some prizegiving body have decided otherwise. Damn, there goes my right to think he is a murdering terrorist scumbag"?

A terrorist that organised bombing, assassinations and murder of British people was given the Nobel prize, wait for it, for peace