If Rangers get to the Cup Final , Queen of the South get into Europe, if they don't the Cup Winners will be from Div 1, and will qualify.

Good point, well made.

Congratulations.

Another chance to watch a First division team go out heavily to Mypa 47 or Derry City

Whilst I don't agree with the idea of the runners-up (whether they be from the SPL or Third Division) getting into Europe, if Queens, Thistle or St Johnstone win the trophy, no one can have any complaints. They will have earned the right to play in Europe and if they are beating by a country from a lower ranking nation, then so be it.

Was disappointing to hear so many of the Queens players talking about wanting Rangers to get through. Surely they should want Thistle or Saints and then have a real crack at winning the competition. Does that not mean more than getting into Europe via the backdoor?

Aye definitely worse than an SPL club getting hammered in Europe!

I'd take winning the cup & not being in Europe!!!

Totally agree.

I certainly can't have any complaints considering we were knocked out by a 1st Division side.


That I don't fully agree with. While I take your point, playing Rangers will mean they have UEFA spot guaranteed regardless of the result. It would be silly to want something else if you are a Queens fan considering that not only have they never won the cup but they've never played in Europe either. Surely having one already in the bag (the UEFA spot) they can relax and have a real go at Rangers. If it was an all 1st Div tie, I think it would become negative and nervous.

I was talking to a Queens fan last night, and he said he wanted one of the First Division clubs so as they had a real shot of winning it.

I'd probably want the cup win myself, and therefore would want Rangers out of the cup. Going into Europe would be cool, but it certainly wouldn't beat the feeling of winning the Scottish Cup IMO.

If Rangers fail to win the Final (if they even make it), then a First Division club will be 1 tie away from the Group-Stages......

See I dont agree with the set up - I think if Queens win it then great all the best to them they have shown they can perform in a cup tournament and nobody can complain.

however I dont think they should get it just for getting to the final.

Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen have all done great stuff for the reputation of Scotland in Europe and I feel we should be rewarding our best teams - if the cup winner is already in Europe it should go to 4th in the league. Potentially were stopping Utd, Motherwell or Hibs getting into Europe and I believe they could od a lot more for Scotland.

It sounds harsh I know but QOS have done great and will get a lot of money from this success - but as a nation we need to be selfish and look at the big picture - thats in my opinion anyway

Cup competitions are odd in this respect, though. The winners win just one more game than the other finalists. Had Gretna won the penalty shoot-out against Hearts then they would have 'deserved' to represent Scotland, yet, by being papped out by Hearts, they became an embarassment (even before they really became an embarassment). Hard one to call.

Some people are never happy - if no lower league teams do well, the cup's "losing its romance". If they get to the final, it "makes the country into a laughing stock".

It's a fucking knockout competition, get over it.

This is strange because nobody ever complained about cup finalists qualifying for Europe up to about five years ago. Nobody complained about the League Cup winners qualifying for Europe either. Does it really matter if it's Hibs/Hearts or Queens that get papped out at the first round? If we are being honest , we only really expect maybe Rangers and Celtic to progress and that has only really been in the last five years itself.

As for that last part, maybe we should say teams like Spartans are not allowed to get past the fourth round of the cup, because lets face it, we need the bigger teams to succeed regardless of whether they deserve it or not and of course non league teams will have done well just getting past a few rounds. It's for the best you see.

Of course that would just be ridiculous but that is where you are coming from. What benefit has Scottish football had in the coeffient from teams outwith the old firm over the last 20 years? Aberdeen this year might of helped, but that is your wack.

Don’t just make things up to suit your argument. There have been complaints about the former for years and similarly the league cup winners getting into Europe was also a contentious issue for years before it was ditched.



He has already stated that if QOS win the cup then they deserve to go into Europe - I am sure everyone will agree with that- so I don’t quite see where you are coming from re Spartanas.

I agree with him when he says that runners-up shouldn’t be given any European spaces. His reasons for wanting such to happen may not stand up to scrutiny, but the stance is one I, and plenty others, agree with.

That's fair enough, but what have teams finishing 3rd or 4th done in Europe of late? You could draw names out of the hat to represent Scotland in Europe outwith the old firm and it would not make a great deal of difference. So regardless of who gets the European spot, cup runner up or fourth or fifth in the SPL, the chances are they will exit within a round or two.

The fact is they are changing it next year anyway, so this debate is bordering on redundant. Still I am sure when this changes we can expect the Scottish coefficient to shoot up as a consequence as third and fourth place SPL teams sweep all aside.

I couldn’t care less what the teams do in Europe, to me that’s not an issue.

So what is your issue?

Maybe it's my interpretation but I thought Simplistic was suggesting those that finished higher up the SPL in 3rd or 4th would have a better chance of doing well in Europe than the Runners up in the cup, if they were below these positions or in a lower league themselves. Thus being selfish for the good of the coefficient.

I already said that simplistics reasons for wanting such to happen may not stand up to scrutiny, but the stance is one I, and plenty others, agree with.

My issue is that it should go to a team most deserving of the European place and I do not think cup runners up are deserving of it. The case of Gretna three seasons ago getting into Europe through this route should have been the last. That was made all the worse of course given that they got into Europe without having to overcome any top division sides.

True Queens fans would not wish to get Rangers, they want to get into Europe by Queens beating Saints in the final!

That is true.

Considering Queens knocked out an Aberdeen side who could yet reach the UEFA Cup on their league place, I find this humourous to say the least.

I'm still expecting some twist here - Queen of the South get hashed by Llanelli or such like, Gordon Smith talks it up and makes everyone think its getting abolished (finally), then Michel and David trump him by taking it to the Competitions Committee, and they rejecting the idea. Remember - to UEFA bigwigs the intricasies of Scotland's weakest UEFA Cup place are totally meaningless, but the principal of cup football is kept strong.

Not to mention the fact that Aberdeen also pumped Copenhagen earlier this season and had the best season in Europe, Old Firm withstanding, by a Scottish club for about 20 years.

I think it's pretty presumptious to speak for all "true" Queens fans.

I would prefer to have the UEFA Cup spot in the bag before playing the final. I feel for St Johnstone, they were so close. And of course we'd have a better chance of win against a team we've beaten this season already than one we haven't beaten for 53 years but I don't accept that we fundamentally have any less chance of beating Rangers than St Johnstone did.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/7357672.stm
Good news, Smith is a fool.

Now you see, if the media came onto P&B more often they'd have seen myself and others saying this six months ago... in fact I made this very point to Jim Traynor on Your Call back in January as well. The SFA do not, have never had and never will have the power to arbitrarily adjust the way that clubs qualify for a UEFA competition, to suit their own agenda. Smith was, and is, wrong.

How ironic that "the chief executive" in question is presumably David Taylor... Smiths predecessor.

Would you stretch the debate to include runners up in the top league of a country being allowed into the CHAMPIONS league?

Yes of course. I would love us to go back to the scenario whereby only the league winners gain entry into the top European competition. Football wise, the previous formats were far better but sadly money talks and in the modern football era that’s the main importance. Now it’s seedings to ensure the top teams have the best possible chance to go through, tv money etc.

I remember when Napoli won the league in 1987, they were drawn in the FIRST round of the European Cup against royal madrid. The Champions of Spain vs the Champions of Italy in the 1st round when other ties included the Champions of Ireland vs the Champions of Cyprus and the Champions of Austria vs the Champions of Malta.

Ah, they were the days................