Our manager said this week that he considers us to be relegated already. With barely half the season done this is an astonishing admission. Where in that case is the incentive for fans to attend any of the remaing fixtures. Can we in that case expect reduced admission fees, say something akin to that in the THIRD division.

Where does he say that?

Strange thing to say (if indeed this is true). Berwick's situation is tricky but certainly not hopeless. Alloa actually stayed up from being 12 points adrift at the start of February two seasons ago.

Alloa aren't utter gash though.

I reckon Berwick will be relegated, but if that's true then it's a ridiculous statement for the manager to come out with.

It was £10 in the 3rd as well. Canny half tell you've never been to a game.

I think you'll find our admission fee is the same as the third division. Perhaps if you attended some games you might know this.

Can you prove he said this?

He said in the Record on Monday that we are all but relegated

Fucking poor. Acknowledging a fight for survival would be fine but saying you expect relegation?

However, if you need a reason to sack your Manager...

Our form over the first six months of that season was worse than Berwick's has been this season, we had less points than Berwick currently do and the gap up to 9th was bigger then than it is now. That should all give Berwick hope.

Haven't seen the apparent article myself, but if he had said this then I am very disappointed. Had we lost to Brechin I felt we were down (although getting 1 more point by drawing isn't really that useful - was more a morale thing). However, our next 3 home games are against Cowdenbeath, Ross County and Ayr - we should wait until after those to declare ourselves down. Keep the faith.

ladging

Berwick are all but relegated. Perhaps he's making a rallying call to the players to fight for survival. Perhaps he's also trying to take some pressure off his players. I doubt if he means Berwick aren't going to bother trying to win any games, or attempt to survive.

If Berwick manage to stay up, however, I'll eat my own balls!

I thought by the title this thread was about Ayr United.

I saw it on the front page and clicked on it immediately. I just had a feeling it should be about Ayr.

Don't believe everything you read, especially in the Record. If he did then at least he is being honest, there are plenty managers out there and come out and talk rubbish and give false hope.

So what, the point is he should never have put the statement in the national press or are you happy with the statement? You sound like the kind who would be

Your another one ignoring the point. And can you prove he didn't?

Bookmarked.

Exactly




As Stree83 says it's good to see some honesty from a manager, i'm sure the manager or the players won't give up trying to stay up if saturday's efforts were anything to go by (i take it bedlington terrier wasn't there). But if i'm honest i also think we'll be relegated, it won't stop me going to the games though (maybe i'm just a mug).

There was more to the statement in the press than that and you know it. You're only the pal of Berwick fan, so I don't see why you are that bothered anyway.

Berwick were relegated before he took over. Coughlin knew fine well what he was doing when he left. Knew the team wasnt good enough to stay in the 2nd. He knew he would end up ther eventually, only this way hes there with a club with their priorities right

I've just read the full statement on the ducket blog and there is alot more to the quote than bedlington terrier says so this is a non-story really. What he is really saying i think is that we should start building for the future and the players should try to play out the rest of the season and enjoy it (if they can!) and see where we go, which makes sense really.

If there's one person who deserves relegation its your scab assistant manager.

To wave the white flag with almost half a season to go is criminal. Ok, he's been honest in some people's opinion but to say that with four and a half months of the season to go means to me he has no confidence in the players or himself to turn the situation around.
We are eight points off a play off place and eleven from safety. Renwick is certainly sending out the wrong signals.

The loss of experienced players like Wood and Fraser certainly is not helping things but why the hell are we signing young kids on one month emergency loan deals when it's clear to see we badly need bodies to fill the gaps from the end of January to April.

Bring back Jimmy Thomson

You are the one who has posted on here saying the manager has said this. Why should I have to prove he didn't say it. I personally don't read any of the papers, apart from the tiser, and thats hardly a paper, so why didn't you post a link or cut and paste so everyone could have a read instead of having to guess.


The young kids are here because you cannot sign players, unless they are out of contract, before January. Check the official squad list and then check how many first choice players have had lengthy injuries. You might be able to see what has gone wrong so far this season. No side could perform well after promotion losing players of the quality of McGroarty, Manson, Smith and Horn. The injured players still get paid so where do you find the money to pay the new signings? The gates are small anyway and the club haven't always been getting the ''money''.
If you go to the game then you are justified in criticising if you choose, but don't go twice a year and make a judgment based on two poor performances.
The manager has been honest. Everyone who goes every week will agree with him. I would much rather hear the truth for a change instead of being told lies like we are still in with a chance. The players now know they are playing for next seasons contract, if they want one.

This was in the Record last Monday:
Michael Renwick has admitted Berwick are all but relegated and is already planning ahead for next season.
Despite fighting back to draw with Brechin the Borderers still remain eight points adrift at the bottom.
Renwick said "when you look at the league table at this stage we are relegated but now I want to build the club up.
If that means bringing in young players who are keen to do well then so be it.
That interests me more than older players who are on their way down the footballing ladder and who might be using the club to see out their days. I am looking at the long term"
So, as well as saying we're down he's also insulting the senior players. Oh and by the way you don't have to go to games to hae an opinion.

You do aye.

Erm I think you do

I wondr if that's a classic piece of psychology from Renwick?

He must know about the shambles at Ayr United and surely he must be thinking with a home game against us, Queens Park and Brechin coming up he is more than in with a chance of at least the play-off berth?

Dont gie us yer pish!

Every sensible poster on here knows Ayr will finish 4th.

In all seriousness, there is just no way Berwick are staying up. Ayr could probably get 10 more points for the season and finish well above them. They are terrible away from home and don't win enough on their own patch to claw back the deficit.

Well I agree with Renwick - Berwick were absolutely awful against Brechin. But, with O'connor, Manson, McGroarty, Horn, Lennox, Fraser, Wood and others missing, I could look at it another way and say that Berwick Reserves actually did quite well.

The trouble is that most of the wounded won't be back in a hurry and in any case we have never effectively replaced Gary Greenhill, Kevin Haynes and Grant McNicoll. I've thought for a while that Ayr United are the only team we could catch, but losing 4-0 to them tells it's own story.

The hierarchy at Berwick clearly enjoyed last year's promotion so much, that they are doing everything possible to have another go next season. Hopefully Renwick can find some of the talented youngsters he talks about. Young Coult certainly showed promise on Saturday, though I fear for his health and his ankles. He was so thin, gangly, gaunt and with a crap hairdo, for a moment I thought it was Kevin Haynes having been locked in a shed for 6 months.

Renwick will need more like him AND the swift return of some Senior players to have a chance of escaping tis season, but personally I think it's too late already. (And I can comment because I was one of only a couple of dozen still in The Ducket last saturday at 10 to 5 to witness Diack's goals)

8 points behind is nothing.

We're 13 points clear at the top but I'm not counting any chickens yet. All you need is to string a couple of wins together while someone else goes on a bad run.

Want some sauce with them?

I've not problem with the psycology, it's what a lot of managers would do in this position. There's no point in pretending everything is fine, so why not give them something to prove? Fair enough.

But it's the comment about the older players that slightly concerns me. It's not as if Gary O' and some of the other older lads are using Berwick as one last big contract before retiring, Renwick is only 31 himself, I'd have thought he'd have had more respect for players of a similar age.

Still, upwards and onwards. We'll watch the four teams above us fight it out to avoid 9th place, and who knows...

I think the comment about older players was directed at other clubs who pay above the odds for players who have been at a much higher level. There are a lot of them around and some of them have risked their whole future by paying ridiculous wages to players who are just going through the motions. I think what the manger is saying is he will be looking for young players looking to prove themselves rather than old pro's looking out for themselves. I would much rather the club gambled on youngsters than has beens. Danny Swanson being a prime example.

Everybody who follows Berwick will know that Gary O, Woodsy and the other senior players DO NOT fall into this category.

you are of course quite right, however, if you want your opinion to be taken seriously you really should go to the games. then your schoolboy error about admission prices wouldnt have happened. thats why i dont say too much on the 2nd div forum, although i do enjoy the crack from the true supporters on here. my time as a hardcore supporter is well gone. i only do the odd visit now, which i dont think entitles me to an opinion, taken seriously or not

I'd completely agree about Gary O', Woodsy and the rest (plus Grant McNichol etc when he was at the club), the older players we've had have been good players at this level for some time, we're thankfully not in the market for paying big bucks for an ex "bigtime" charlie looking for one last big contract.

I'd hope that Renwick's comments were meant more about other clubs, rather than a swipe about two of our best players. I'd agree that I'd rather see more Swansons at the club, at least a bit of passion, flair and commitment rather than journeymen going through the motions. Hopefully the link to Yogi at Falkirk and the youth side here can get a regular flow coming through. Only needs to be a couple a year, but a lot cheaper than buying "off the shelf" players.

Renwick has definitly said the wrong thing. Wether or not it is the truth a manager should show some fucking support to the players not say that your only playing for a contract this season. 8 points isn't that bad really is it? Look at Brechin, theyve went on a good run, out of nothing, to say that it is impossible for us to do that is unbelivable, come on Renwick, show some fucking confidence eh!

The remark about older players, and the guy that said doesn't include Wood and Gary O, who does it include then??? Renwick has came here, and Wood and Gary O haven't exactly been convincing have they? Wood isn't being given the chance as striker, and Gary O has had such a shite defence that the goals have been flying in! There isn't exactly any other older players is there? If our assisant manager is getting payed mind, I don't see why, he does f**k all. When Renwick first came he was full of encouragement, then when he got here, he seemed to turn quite Coughlin-like. And not in a good way, or a fat way.

I think he is trying to take pressure off the players myself. If they know he wants hungry committed young players then the are more likely to play better without the added pressure of staying up on them. It might help to improve results.

And as for the older players thing, I always thought he was meaning in terms of signings. Bringing in young players rather than players past it or on their way down. I don't see anything in his comments to suggest anything about the current older players.

Need to go to every game to have an opinion

What about us that aren't local 300 miles away, but try to get when we can with travel costs, family commitment, we can't just dinx up the road but plan from 6am in the morning.

We can't have opinion yeah right

You beat me to it. The quote is about future signings, not current players. He has to stick to the budget and rightly or wrongly he will be planning to a third division budget. Why risk a lot of it on one ''big'' name when you could have better overall depth. He has virtually said that you've got the rest of the season to prove you want to stay here. I can't see anything wrong with that. The reserves and youth team are there to try and bring players through instead of buying from other clubs. This can only be encouraging for those players to try and make an impression on the manager.

I would be be pointing and laughing at you for this if I didn't know there is no way you actually believe that.

Try when you can. Exactly.

That c**t never goes to a game, and comments about stuff like that, completly different.

It's not exactly a critisism of you though is it? He isn't a fan, only the mate of a fan who hasnt been to a game. Its quite hard to form such a strong opinion on Renwicks comments without having watched the team at least once or twice since he became manager.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, it just won't be as informed as those who go to every game.

Of course you are entitled to an opinion but, if people like bedlington terrier come and can't get some basic facts correct, folk who go to games regularly aren't really going to take those opinions seriously are they?

Your a right bunch of self important fools. You seem happy to let a five minute hero rip the piss out of you. This man has never managed before and you can see why. I have and do go to some games when I can. If I was like some of you lot that apparently never miss a game I'd be the mug.

I will second that pal