Well is the box 18 yards from the goal at all points?

I noticed that you boys form is pretty poor too. Hopefully we can get a win under our belts....after that all I want for xmas is a home win. The cup game against Dumbarton will do.

Only good thing to come out of the defeat was to see Fairbairn back: his injury was pretty horrific so it was good to see him getting a chance.

I pretty much agree with what the other Binos have said. We were well below par so to win the game has to be thought of as an excellent result. I think Raith could justifiably claim that they deserved at least a point but you need to take your chances. Thorana.... the Icelandic boy looked an excellent player but his finishing is absolutely woeful - what point is there in having a striker that can't score an easy chance from 2 yards? One of the misses had to be seen to be believed.

Colin Cramb could've had another right at the end but most Raith fans had left by that time. When will he manage to score 2 in a game?

Re the ref: bizarre. Don't know how he missed Hogarth a yard out of his box - he seemed to be well enough positioned. Raith's penalty probably was but I'd say that Cashmore's was a very similar challenge and wasn't given which was disappointing.

Overall I'm delighted with 3 points. We will need to play better to beat Alloa though.

I've had another think about the Hogarth incident, and you could actually make a case for the ref having made the correct decision. Here's my logic:

1) It could only have been a red card offence if, in the ref's opinion, Hogarth prevented an obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Most people here agree that he didn't.

2) There is no provision to book a player for a deliberate handball. You could argue that it is 'unsporting behaviour', but I don't see how that could apply in this case.

3) There is even a question over whether it was a deliberate handball. The relevant part of the rules is this:

Clearly Hogarth handled the ball deliberately, but I'd say his intention was to stay within the penalty box. In which case he did not deliberately handle outside of the box.

Therefore...... the referee was correct to not send off, book or award a free kick against Hogarth.

Either that, or he missed what everybody else in the stadium saw.

When the goalkeeper is outside the box, he can't handle the ball.

Simple rule!

Incorrect. If the goalkeeper accidently handles the ball outside the box, the referee's correct course of action is to allow play to continue, the same as it would be for any other player.

And how does the Ref know what is going through Hogarths head?

He just "accidentally" caught the ball then. That was lucky.

He doesn't, but in common with several of the decisions a referee has to make in a game, he must make a judgment as to whether he thinks the action is deliberate or not. If the referee judged that Hogarth did not intend to handle the ball outside the box, he made the correct decision given that judgement.


I suggest you read my post again, I'll put the relevant section here to help you:

Why would any goalkeeper ever deliberately catch the ball outside the box - it'd be madness.

I didn't want to get into a big discussion about this, but I can't believe that you don't think it was a free-kick and at least a booking!

Indeed, I agree with that.

Well, rules are rules. Don't blame me because I didn't devise them.

Yeah, well, well, yeah, why not, you should've!

been in the pub thinking about this...today was fairly soul destroying

Just counting the minutes down until CL fecks off, and then what?

right now you'd have to be mad to take the raith job, poor pay, a lot of stress and one of the most frustrating teams in scottish football, christ - i still can't believe Thor blazed over from point blank range; then defenders all had little breakdowns that led to the Stirling goals

I've got that pit of the stomach hopeless feeling that I remember from the Anelka days, it really could get that bad unless Raith already have a man in line for the job who happens to be a miracle worker

Still gonna go next week - and the week after that, ad infinitum. Watching raith throw games away like the last 3/4 weeks

He didn't catch it outside the box....he caught it inside the box and took over the line....small point but one worth making

I`ll go againast the grain here,thought we should have sewn the game up by half time.Second half was even stevensno event,

Referee,usual standard....awful.

Keeper should have seen red, end off,Can`t believe this pish about goal scoring opportunity.So in effect a keeper can come out to the half way line and handle the ball but because hes not stopped a goal scoring opportunity its not desreving of a yellpw/red card?pish

2nd top..2nd bottom,not a lot of difference apart from the points difference.

A few Stirling players like to go down easily and play on there injuries.

You can't believe the rules of the game?

Like how you quoted only part of my post.

Thanks.

Keeper has ball in hand outside box is a free kick with a booking or sending off in any other football arena in the world. In scotland f--k all happens and visiting fans come on try to make a case for their keeper doing that.I am sick of this pish from stirling fans who i thought had some sense of fair play and knew their football.We are shite and couldnt score in a barrel o fannies but when these decisions go against you week in week out it depresses me no end.This week that decision,last week we should have had a penalty and the keeper sent off but missed 30 chances.Morton game should be 4 up before templeman comes on does his glenrothes impression of swan f--king lake and gets a penalty.Ayr game we batter them for 90 mins sorry 80 mins and get beat 1-0. If we dont improve then we will go down and the club will die because we wouldnt be able to sustain it.

He did - the only relavent part. It's not like Hogarth came charging up to the half way line and picked the ball up; he ran to the edge of the box to gather a clearance and his momentum took him out of the box. No-one is disputing this fact. Even if the referee had (correctly) given the free-kick it would never have been a red card.

As for Raith having the game sewn up in the first half - I can only remember 2 other chances other than the goals. Thought Rovers probably shaded the second half though, or at least the earlier part of it, and had more chances.

Edit - And our players making the most of the injuries? I think the physios were only on the pitch twice in the whole game - both times in the first half when Currie and then Cashmore went down.

Noy at all..the other part is equally relevant.Momentum carried him outside the box,okay i`ll accept that,minimum is a booking and a free kick...ref gave neither.



Correct,2 sitters.......which would have made it 3-1 at half time,game finished IMO but its totally irrelevant now.It didn`t happen and we were beaten by a team who are 2nd top who are no better than us who are 2nd bottom



Disagree,thought you guys shaded the 2nd half.

The big part you forgot to mention was "on the day" at the end of the sentence. Clearly we under performed and are second top for a reason.

Overall, Raith arent the worst team we have played and I can see you guys picking up and finishing mid table.

We could just as easily get relegated with Levein in charge anyway, I don't see anything to suggest that we'll pick up more points in the next 6 games with him in charge than we would with someone else.

thats big of you saying that

An injustice to the Rovers there i think.

Under performed I don`t think so.

Yes you are 2nd top due to consistency in results but we all know how that can change.Didn`t you guys get off to a horrendous start last season then have a string off wins/results after?




A hint of sacarcism.

We should be looking at at least 4th spot .

I would say that yesterday's game was the worst we've played in the league all season. Rovers definitely should have taken something from the game but shot themselves in the foot by not putting the ball in the net when it was easy on a couple of occassions where it was easy to do so.

With the quality of players at Starks there's no way the team should be sitting where it is but with there being turmoil behind the scenes I think aiming for 4th is being a bit over optimistic.

Leaving the rule book behind for a minute and looking at the game I think Raith have the potential to do better. One is a handful for any team and the Icelandic lad will be a danger once he masters the art of scoring from 3 feet. The only problem I have with big Armand is his complete lack of movement over more than 3 or 4 yards...with him you are kind of forced to punt it long...which can work but means teams know what you're going to do.

Defensively Andrews looked suspect to pace and didn't fancy it at all when Dene Shields came on....something I'm sure other teams will play on.

Aaaah, the lovely feeling of a raging hangover caused by an all night session after a marvellous win. Ye canny beat it.

My thoughts on the game.....

We didn't play brilliantly, but took our chances when they came. That's the mark of a good side.

Raith's penalty was clear as day, I even HEARD the challenge, never mind saw it.

Myles got away with murder when he handled outside the box. Not a sending off due to the reasons explained elsewhere, but had that been the Raith keeper, I would have been RAGING if we didn't get a free-kick.

We should have had a penalty in the second half for a very similar 'challenge'.

I've never been a big fan of Dene Shields, but he won us the game today. You could tell all we needed was a bit of pace up front because the Rover's central defenders were just as slow as our two strikers. And so it proved.

I thought we had a great support through today, bigger than the ususal following to Kirkcaldy, and quite vocal too, especially near the end.

And finally, I have never been so glad at an Alloa win in my life.

6 points behind ye Morton, is yer sphincter valve starting to tweak yet??

We're 12 points ahead of you after only 12 games. That's a pretty big gap between two teams who are as good as each other.


How would you know? Have you seen all of our games this season? I'd say it was our worst league performance of the season yet, on the balance of play, we deserved a point and ended up taking all 3.

Why,we are 12 points ahead of you for a reason! I am not saying we are anything special, but we played one of our worst games of the season yesterday so "on the day" certainly applys!



We are second because we have more points than third and Morton are first because they have more points than us- other teams will beat each other in this league!
We are in second and you guys are in ninth for a reason.
It wasn't meant to be sacarstic as reading your forum you guys think the third division is a possibilty next season. I was just trying to say that you are a better team than your league position suggests and that you will come good and be safe in the league.

Raith aren't better than us(or as good) if only for the fact that their strikers couldn;t score in a barrel of fannies, which afterall is the point in football, they even nearly missed their Pen.

Our performance yesterday reminded me of Ayr's performance in their 3-1 win at Forthbank on the opening day of the season.

In that game, Ayr didn't play particularly well but took their chances when they came along. A bit like us yesterday.

Good shout...although I'd say we created more chances than Raith did yesterday....but decent comparison all the same

You sound as if you think the refs have the capacity for rational thought. I think they just cross their fingers and hope for the best when making decisions...consistency, what's that?

I spoke to one of the SFA's finest this morning who immediately said that he would have issued a red card. However, he did also say that there is no clarity in this situation.

Typical. If we'd only had the right SFA fanny yesterday, we'd have gone on to take the 3 points.

Thank fcuk he wasn't reffing then. It was NEVER a red card. Not by any definition.

What would a cleaner know about it?

...and a cleaner who wasn't even at the game no less.

Problem is there doesn't appear to be a definition.

Sanctions imposed could range from yesterdays " No offence committed " decsision to a straight Red Card.

The guy I spoke to said that in his opinion, a keeper needs to make a judgement on where his momentum will take him. In this situation, he clearly cant change direction in mid air, so in this situation he needs to punch the ball. If he dileberately catches the ball with the knowledge that his momentum will then carry him out of the box then he's guilty of serious foul play and should be red carded.


Thats only one opinion though.

Probably wasn't, but I've seen plenty of occasions where players have been sent off for that. In fact was Iain Turner not sent off for something similar playing for Everton last season?
I saw the referee indicating to Rovers players that he didn't see the incident. That seems almost unbelievable to me.

Aye, even if he didn't, you'd have thought the linesman would have.

Iain Turner's sending off was different. He was outside the box but in front of the goals, not to the side, therefore he denied the forward a clear goalscoring chance, as there was no-one behind him.

Morning round of golf with Coco Hardie I presume ?

The standard of refs is getting worse, the sfa must just pick people at random out of the fuckin phonebook or something

Alright smartass as you seem to have all the answers you tell us if that had been the raith keeper who had done that what would you be looking for.You would want the keeper sent off and a freekick and dont give me this pish that you wouldnt because that is what you would all want.

What you want and whats in the rules and should happen are the same thing then?

A free kick.

Had he been sent off, whilst I would have been pleased, it wouldn't have been the correct decision.

Seeing as you seem to be all hot and bothered about it, explain to me in your own words why it should have been a red card.

Look I think it's time we as Raith fans stopped blaming everybody else for our results and looked within, we are creating chances and not putting them away, it isnt a conspiracy just us being hopeless in front of goal that is our problem and poor defender in the last 15 minutes of games.

Levein is more or less gone by all accounts lets get in a manager who will give the players a kick up the arse and some desire and confidence. This blame everybody else for our problems has to stop as we are heading on our way down and if that did happen the only people we could blame would be ourselves nobody else.

Games arent won on paper or through states (shots on goal or possesion) they are decided on who scores more goals and at the moment we simply arent scoring more than the other team.

We have to start looking within for our problems rather than constantly blame everybody else until we do that nothing will change. Our problems lie within and until that changes we will continue on this road.

Less of this we are to big/to good for this league and accept the reality that we are in this league and that unless we get the finger out we wont be playing in this league next season. Yes on paper we have one of the best teams in the league but as I've already said results arent done on paper.
This blame culture at Starks is really starting to piss me off (I've done it myself I admit) but until we start taking a long hard look at ourselves rather than blaming everybody else for our problems we wont improve. We need to look within ourselves for the problems and for the solutions.

Only scoring 1 goal a game when creating around 20 chances is pathetic and if we continue that we will deserve to go down and nobody will be to blame but ourselves not the refs and not other teams. Other teams don't miss sitters for us and if you don't take your chances you don't win games it's as simple as that.

If you read back all i said was at the very least a free kick and a booking but we got nothing, a sending off would have been a bonus though.Steven is right we should stop blaming others for our own inabilities but its not easy to accept the bad decisions week in and week out.

I can't comment on your other games, but we had a perfectly good claim for a penalty turned down yesterday. It's not just you at the end of bad decisions by inept officials.