Over the last decade, the Highland League has lost five leading clubs who successfully applied to join the SFL.

What implications did this have for those left behind? Has the standard of HL football been seriously weakened? Certainly, the northern non-league sides no longer seem to do as well in the Scottish Cup as they used to.

Of course the exile of five main clubs from the HL into to the SFL was going to have a detrimental effect on the standard of the HL. Hence why Huntly managed to win so many titles in the mid to late nineties. However its started to get better again. And alot of players Ross County, Aberdeen and Inverness CT release ply their trade in the HL league now.

The Highland League was always cyclic in the way that it kept on gaining quality and probably peaked about 1990-1994. There was cracking County, Caley and Elgin sides in that era. And those three clubs had alot of cup upsets in those times.

The Highland league is still a far stronger league than either of the other semi professional leagues in Scotland. Yes the cup shocks haven't quite maintained the level that was attained in the early 90s, but with a bit more hard work they certainly can reach that level again.

I certainly think it has weakened, especially in the Inverness region compared to the Aberdeenshire. To replace Ross County and Inverness Caley (thistle too) they added Wick Academy, who despite one or two semi decent seasons have struggled. When Peterhead and Elgin left, Locos joined up who have done quite well, but again are an Aberdeenshire team. Basically you have made the top teams in the league teams who were always just mid-table, and havent really increased their level of play all that much. However you could also say that the overall standard of football in scotland has went downhill recently, and is only starting to improve now so maybe they havent weakened all that much.

Wouldnt argue that the Highland League is stronger overall than the East of Scotland but over the last couple of seasons it seems the best EoS sides are better than the best HL sides. Note Spartans spanking Buckie 6-1 in the Scottish a couple of years back and beating a number of league sides (shudders at the memories ) whereas HL sides havent made much headway. And remembder Spartans didnt even win the EoS last season either, so its not as if they are miles ahead of everybody else in that league.
That must be the first time I can remember that an EoS side has been stronger than the best HL sides. Doubt it will last anyway, like you say these things are cylical, the HL will come back stronger in time.

Yes Spartans are a wonderful cup side, and would definately be a top three Highland League side and would hold their own in the SFL. The Highland League overall is a stronger league. Its hard to judge a cup team on a league basis. I know that Cup games overshadow any league games and players dont want to get injured in those games. However I think the strength of the Highland League is partly proven by the large majority of Highland League players in the Semi professional International select.

I don't know why this hasn't quite equated into HL faring better in the Scottish Cup. The draws the HL sides have been tough away to Second Division opposition and they have been anomolies of smaller Highland League sides getting in in recent years.. Plus the Highland League champions of the last three seasons haven't entered the Scottish Cup as they have been knocked out in the Qualifying Cup. Which has lead to the debate of including seeding in the Qualifying Cup.

Buckie when they lost to Spartans were in dissaray. People make alot more of that result as a very strong Buckie side goto the Third Round of the Scottish Cup in 00-01 and were deemed to have a big reputation as cup specialists. They quite easily held their own against Ross County in the Third Round and were unfortunate not to get a replay at Victoria Park.

However history never records these things, it will say Spartans absolutely horsed a HFL team. I would like to see Spartans drawn against Deveronvale (assuming they go through) it would be a very interesting tie. I would think Vale would go through against any other Semi- Professional team though.

I heard they ended up in a shitload of debt and no longer own Christie Park. Were Huntly affected by the same "spend spend spend" mentality that poisoned so many SFL clubs over the last decade?

...based on seeing Inverurie last season in the Cup the standard appears to have gone backwards at an alarming rate over the last 5 years.

Locos came and kicked players for 90 minutes and didn't even try to score.

The standard is nowhere near as it used to be, nor anywhere near as well spread about the league. You have about five clubs who are of any quality, three others trying to keep and the rest of us are a long way off.

Locos are one of the better ones, I am surprised they tried to kick folk off the park. I imagine that kind of order came from their (now ex) manager. Vale are good but are they of the standard that Caledonian and Ross County were a dozen years ago? No.

Your opinion would have more credence if it hadnt taken Stirling until the 90th minute to score against a Locos side which had played the previous hour with 10 men.

Yeah I have always laughed at those claims. Its hard to make an opinion of a league's strength just from one game, especially when that one game you seen you were only playing against ten men. Fair enough if you pumped them, but you didnt.

...because they spent the entire game kicking anything that moved, as soon as our players got the ball they were fouled by the nearest Locos player.

And lets not forget the brutal attack on a Stirling player by an Inverurie scumbag after they had lost the last minute goal, which was wonderfully captured by Sky but ignored by the SFA.

Waspie - great reply

Binoscum or whatever your name is - get a life
We came, we saw, we laughed at your pitiful crowd, we stood up to you, you cried, we went home robbed by a dodgy ref and a bunch of cheating whinging wannabe weedgies

Stirling Albion

Is it? There's some absolute garbage at the bottom of the Highland League. Last year Brora and Fort William were in a league of their own while other teams took some real hammerings off the better ones.

One way I like to look at league quality is to examine how many goals per game are scored. It can show an emphasis on defensive football, or alternatively how bad some teams within the division are, which lower the overall standard. The general principle is that the better leagues will have a lower goals per game average then the poorer ones.

But as Ebbe Skovdahl once said 'statistics are like mini skirts - they are very revealing but hide the important bits'. For 2005-06 the figures for the whole of Scottish football were: (and you will get anomalies if there is a very strong team in the division, ie Gretna last year, or if there's a real lost cause like Fort William in HFL)

2005-06
Scottish First Division 2.54
Scottish Premierleague 2.81
Scottish Third Division 2.88
East Superleague 2.92
Scottish Second Division 2.99
West Premier League 3.00
Lothian Division One 3.10
East of Scotland Premier Division 3.11
Lothian Division Two 3.22
West First Division 3.31
Central First Division 3.32
Tayside Division One 3.58
East of Scotland First Division 3.59
North Premier League 3.62
North First Division 3.75
Highland League 3.89
Tayside Premier League 3.98
Fife League 3.99
North Second Division 4.00
Central Second Division 4.11
Ayrshire District League 4.19
South of Scotland League 4.63

2006-07 (latest)
Scottish Premierleague 2.50
Scottish Third Division 2.50
Scottish First Division 2.67
East Superleague 2.67
East: North (Tayside) Divison 3.00
North Premier League 3.00 (figures behind, so to 22/8)
Scottish Second Division 3.10
East: South (Lothian) Division 3.06
West First Division 3.38
Ayrshire District League 3.42
North First Division 3.64 (figures behind, so to 22/8)
East of Scotland Premier Division 3.77
East of Scotland First Division 3.77
Highland League 3.78
East: Central (Fife) Division 3.83
Central First Division 3.91
West Premier League 3.92
East Premier League 4.14
Central Second Division 4.88
North Second Division 5.57 (figures behind, so to 22/8)
South of Scotland League 5.63

To summarise, although the season is still young, you can begin to compare and see what is an anomaly and what is not. The professional/National leagues are at the top end (though not necessarily in the right order) with the very poor leagues at the other end.

Pitiful crowd?

For you guys it was a Cup Final and your crowd was very poor for our fans it was a game against a poor non-league team that we were always going to beat.

So away back to your pub league with your pub players and enjoy playing other shanty towns up north.

Haha, you are a complete buffoon.

You were always going to beat Locos? Unless I've got this wrong, but was it not a last minute goal against 10 men that saw you through??

The that makes me laugh is your delusions of grandeur in being the 'mighty' Stirling Albion when the reality is that anything below the First Division isn't much to shout about. Even the non-league team I follow in England get more fans that Stirling.

Thanks, I do my best.



Aye, they are a NON-League team, and not a very good one at that, and we should always beat Non-League teams as we have a better standard of player. It's a scandal if we lose to a Non-League team as any Albion fan who remembers Gala will tell you.



What an arsehole you are, what are Lossiemouth then? EPL? La Liga?




...your point being? We get more fans than all the Hughland League teams and with our average attendance so far this season of over 700 that means that we get over 6 times the attendances of some HFL teams.

A team that has finished second in the HFL in successive season is not a very good non-league team??



Lossie are HFL, I make no delusion about any grandeur though.



Again, my point being that Stirling Albion are small fish - a wee team, just like the rest of us. Get used to it. I'm not claiming that the HFL is a major league - just pointing out the irony of you harping on about wee teams.

Thats probably less than Locos and Vales in recent years.

Not according to the Sunday Herald and Scotland on Sunday

According to their own website Deveronvale are lucky if they get 400 and crowds peaked at a whopping 900 for the Title winning game

If you believe the HFL attendances given in the press you are likely also to believe that Santa Claus is real. They just pick a number (usually between 120 and 450 and almost always to a round '10') and stick it in.

Wouldnt bother about the demented rantings of Tomsk the Wino folks, sadly not one of the more eloquent posters on P&B

700 fans?

700 fans????

Really - 700 (seven hundred)????

f**k me, Stirling City Centre must be deserted on a Saturday as they're all at that Lego built stadium
I bet the local crims have a field day on a Saturday knowing that all the houses must be empty between 3pm and 5pm - not that you've got much worth stealing that isn't already stolen

Can anyone remind me of the population of Stirling compared to Inverurie?
I'd estimate that it is about 10 times bigger - so that would mean if Locos had an average crowd of less than 70, then BinoScum could rightfully laugh at us and if we have an average crowd of more than 70, he can go f**k himself

All agreed?

Stirling has 41,000 residents, four times more than Inveruries 10,800.

700 is pretty w**k for a league club, I have to say.

It is shocking. And to think they call Stirling a 'city'

Only 41,000??

What an embarrassment to Scotland that one of our citys is such a tinpot town.

Oh, the shame of it

Still, 700 fans from a base of 41,000 is still totally piss poor - especially considering the division they are in

I also laugh at the suggestion that some of those hardcore fans didn't turn out for their home Scottish Cup tie against Locos as it wasn't a big enough game
Are you football fans or total muppets???

Congratulations Tomsk. This has been one of your simplest and most effective wind-ups to date.

You Highland boys should have listened to Waspie.

Wind up?
Nah

An opportunity to laugh at your poor excuse of a football team and how limited your knowledge is?
Yes

They also call Elgin a city. You can imagine what kind of hole Stirling must be. The football club appears to be of a similar quality.

...but a proper League hole!

Binoscum

You have the signature
SFL - Evolve or Die

I agree, the SFL needs to evolve and by that I mean introduce a proper pyramid system.
It's all well and good league boys thinking they are all high and mighty because the fact is they are safe where they are

Get a pyramid system in place and then lets see what happens as I'm sure things would look mightily different 5 years down the line

So for once, I agree with you
The SFL must evolve

And then we can watch Stirling "700 fans" Albion coast down the leagues at the expense of current lower league clubs

It's Beanoscum.

How would you compare the Highland League clubs to some of the top Junior sides?

They don't really play each other so it's hard to compare IMHO. North Junior football is pretty dire, so Highland v East or West Junior is where the only valid comparisons could be made, and those sorts of games are rare.

I saw Beith Juniors (West 1st Division) play an injury-hit Buckie Thistle side in pre-season and Buckie looked more skilful but very lightweight. They'd get bullied out of most games in the West of Scotland on that evidence. Beith had six or seven players out of 11 making debuts, but looked an average Junior side who if in the top division would struggle.

I'd like to see the likes of Auchinleck Talbot play say Deveronvale. Talbot fans claim they've got the best side they've had in years. They've got a few decent young players and have quality throughout the team.

I have seen a couple off Junior games and they were pretty pish but that is probaly me getting bad luck while all my Highland leagues games except when i watched nairn vs clach a couple seson back and that was rubbish.

But i would say Highland League top teams could beat the cream of Juinor football.

I would like to see the sort of pyramid system in Scotland as Switzerland have with teams from the pub leagues and senior leagues aswell as reserve teams being able to make there way up the league. Only problem being is Scotland would have to be separated into different areas just like the Juniors.

was at the FW-Wick game on 5th of august and i counted the crowd.It didnt take long as there were less than 50 there,but the papers said 150!i thought the general idea was to pretend you took less people through the turnstiles, for tax reasons

Did you forget to count the sheep?

I think Deveronvale could easy make the step up to the SFL in the next few years.

We seem to be getting to big for the highland league. We have a great youth set up, have the best ground in the league and best pitch along with a lovely surrounding.
Best pies in the league and best local pubs in the highland league.

Teams like Lossie,fort,wick,rothes,brora would struggle in the amauter league nevermind the juniors. These teams are also lucky to pull double figure crowds

Vale beat Spartans a few seasons back 2-1 in a scottish cup game.

Our small neighbours up the coast i.e Buckie Thislte got humped 6-1 by them so its easy to see who the best team in the highland league are.

Out of interest what Junior games did you see? I wouldn't for example judge by the Junior Cup Final as by that stage of the season the finalists have been playing 4 games a week for at least 6 weeks and are usually just knackered, the effect doubled by playing at Firhill which is one of the biggest pitches in Scotland.

The cream of the Juniors as of September 22nd 2006 is the likes of Linlithgow Rose, Bonnyrigg Rose, Camelon, Tayport, Auchinleck Talbot, Arthurlie, Cumnock and Pollok. I'd rank almost every North Junior club beneath the Highland league in terms of quality, maybe the top sides like Culter, Stonehaven etc could survive in the bottom half.

I'll not judge the Highland League as I've not seen enough but from what I saw of Buckie Thistle against Beith (who are in the lower division of the West Superleague set-up) they were very skilful but would be bullied out of most Junior games in the top divisions which are physically hard leagues. Glenafton, Arthurlie, Pollok and Auchinleck all play football, but also have some steel about them. There are other teams like Petershill who win the physical battles first - then think about winning.

This is all 'in theory' though as the chance of Pollok playing Deveronvale in a competitive game is not in sight yet. It may come though.

Pubs which don't have Sky are not even considered for the Lossiemouth FC Away Day Pub of The Year Award, so you can rule out Barclays for a kick-off. And yer pies are horrible.

If you are too big for this league, please f**k off soon.

"We seem to be getting to big for the highland league" - only in the tiny minds of some of your supporters (you know, "VBC","Valley Casuals", "Valley Skins" - the ones who smash up half of Turriff after pre-season friendlies. No place for some of these eejits in any form of football, I'm afraid) And where were all these fans when you were sh*te????
Pittodrie, probably.

"We have a great youth set up" - maybe, but how many current first team players have come through this, then? You are the team most adept at tapping up other club's players and spending stupid money on transfer fees and wages...........

"Best ground in the league and best pitch" - your pitch is excellent, granted, but the ground has no cover apart from the stand, which is p*sh.

"Best pies in the league" - no, that's Forres Mechanics chicken pies.

"Best local pubs" - erm, no..................

"Lovely surrounding" - let's see. Main Road at end of ground, junior pitch and Tescos at one side, sheltered housing complex and "Spotty Bag" 99p Discount Emporium. You can just see the sea, though granted the hill above MacDuff is easy on the eye.

Have I just picked a hole in the argument?????? Sorry.........

I, and everyone else on the Lossiemouth FC messageboard, are entirely eager to hear more on this. You are cordially invited to post your knowledge in the fact that should it prove embarassing enough for Vale fans, there will be a pint waiting for you in the Social Club next Saturday when Cove come to Lossie.

Click here to tell us more

The Vale pitch isn't even as good as Nairns.

Let it be said that Station Park is probably my favourite HL ground. It just feels like a "proper" ground to me.......


Oh Shaker, see the below for info on Vale :

Deveronvale Forum

Apparently quite a few of their "hardcore" numpties have been sent warning letters by the club, as well.

football is cyclical by nature so stop being so up yourself.Its not that long since i saw Caley rogering you 12-0 at Telford Street

You think Vale fans would appreciate this. But most are now banned from the ground for their behaviour elsewhere and dont really have a full idea of what goes on.

Ah well that great Spartans team aren't even in the Scottish Cup this season.

I see that there were 693 folk at Cowden v Stirling Albion on Saturday and 574 at Stirling's last home match

Just shows you how much of a high quality, superior league they are in when Inverurie Locos v Huntly could only muster 718