Rugby Union

[John Lambies Doos]

Would a revived Borders pro team be able to sustain a Pro14 (or whatever it'll be called next) team. In terms of support, interest etc. To me it seems a bit off that the traditional Scottish rugby heartland has no pro setup.

 

Not being from there I don't know if loyalty to the individual towns teams killed any potential support they had the first time round, but surely it would be worth the SRU looking into.

 

It's a valid point and obviously been tried before. However after watching the Kings play Leinster I'd say that a borders team would be able to muster a better support, keep a lower cost base and initially be used as a feeder club ala connaught. I would love to see a 3rd pro team. In the many years of following rugby I genuinely feel that it's never been more popular in Scotland than it is now. Grand slam/ world cup occasions aside.

 

[flyingscot]

19 minutes ago, Craig the Hunter said:

Would a revived Borders pro team be able to sustain a Pro14 (or whatever it'll be called next) team. In terms of support, interest etc. To me it seems a bit off that the traditional Scottish rugby heartland has no pro setup.

Not being from there I don't know if loyalty to the individual towns teams killed any potential support they had the first time round, but surely it would be worth the SRU looking into.

Highlighted. Wasn't the issue that it was seen as 'Gala' as they played there. They find it a lot easier to support City teams than the borders. 

Dundee/Perth/Fife a shout for a pro team IMO. 

Pro Rugby will kill itself with too many leagues. South Africa made sense. We should be offering the other teams a way in after Superrugby deal finishes not looking at USA/Canada/Germany and any other big market. 

[honestly united]

It died a death last time due to lack of support, and dont think it would be any different if tired again, although others may know better than me.

From what I remember the main issue was that they picked one town / stadium  (was it Melrose?) to host all the games, and it was then seen as their team and not a borders wide team. If they were going to resurrect it, they would need to manage that aspect, and maybe rotate games between Gala, Hawick, Melrose, Selkirk, Kelso, Jedburgh etc, although as the population is only about 115k its hardly going to pull in big crowds, even if they produce the majority of the best scottish talent.

[come on shire]

I'm nervous about this Munster game on Friday night.  If you want to finish 1st and therefore not have to navigate a 1/4 final (if you finish in the play-offs) you must win your home games vs your biggest rivals.

Munster beat us 4 times last season which really wasn't acceptable so we must get back to winning ways against these guys.  However, so much has to improve.  Personally I still like Finn at 10 though he's a typical genius of his craft.  He'll try kicks and chips etc in the hope that they come off.  They don't always which is obviously very frustrating.  However, it's delightful when they do come off so I won't criticise too much.

However, the big fixes are the set pieces.  Our line out was ok in the 1st 2 games but generally howling down in Cardiff.  So far our scrums have really struggled too and that's the biggest concern.  If you don't have a good scrum then don't expect to win games of rugby.  So far we've got away with it as the will to win has galvanised the team and our defence has been outstanding (though Cardiff's try was a horror show between Grigg and Dunbar granted).  I think most penalties have come at loosehead so perhaps it's time to give Jamie Bhatti some bench time... 

Edited September 19, 2017 by come on shire

[Mark Connolly]

I'd give the Western Isles a pro team before going anywhere near the Borders after their shite the last time.

That being said, there still isn't the cash in Scotland to sustain it. We have only just paid off the Murrayfield debt, and the cost of players for the current 2 is continually rising, as shown by the big hike in ST proves this season. There also isn't the depth to sustain 3 competitive sides, especially during International windows. 

It's getting there, but jumping into it too early the last time was one of the reasons it was doomed from the start.

[dogmc]

I'd give the Western Isles a pro team before going anywhere near the Borders after their shite the last time.
That being said, there still isn't the cash in Scotland to sustain it. We have only just paid off the Murrayfield debt, and the cost of players for the current 2 is continually rising, as shown by the big hike in ST proves this season. There also isn't the depth to sustain 3 competitive sides, especially during International windows. 
It's getting there, but jumping into it too early the last time was one of the reasons it was doomed from the start.

This x 1000 ^^^^. We should be putting together either 3 or 5 yr plans for infrastructure n players for either London Scottish or caley reds. Borders struggle to sustain semi pros n even if they didnt squabble they couldn't sustain a full time pro side. It was weak management at the sru that indulged them last time round.

[flyingscot]

17 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

I'd give the Western Isles a pro team before going anywhere near the Borders after their shite the last time.

That being said, there still isn't the cash in Scotland to sustain it. We have only just paid off the Murrayfield debt, and the cost of players for the current 2 is continually rising, as shown by the big hike in ST proves this season. There also isn't the depth to sustain 3 competitive sides, especially during International windows. 

It's getting there, but jumping into it too early the last time was one of the reasons it was doomed from the start.

Isn't the current idea to get Glasgow to be self sustaining? That's why the sponsorship is different as it demands more money than the SRU deal. 

Frankly the major issue the SRU have with Glasgow is now Scotstoun. It's far too small. Glasgow probably lose £60k of revenue a game due to inability to sell enough tickets to meet demand.  

[Mark Connolly]

Just now, flyingscot said:

Isn't the current idea to get Glasgow to be self sustaining? That's why the sponsorship is different as it demands more money than the SRU deal. 

Frankly the major issue the SRU have with Glasgow is now Scotstoun. It's far too small. Glasgow probably lose £60k of revenue a game due to inability to sell enough tickets to meet demand.  

The idea is for both to be self sustaining while still under SRU control, which is effectively how the NZ and Welsh regions work. That in itself shows the difficulty - while it works in NZ, it really doesn't in Wales. I think we'd be on the NZ end of the scale, since there is still an acceptance here that both teams are designed to produce players for Scotland, and winning things is a bonus, while the Welsh are so busy in-fighting that they fail to see the bigger picture.

Agree on Scotstoun, but there isn't currently a viable alternative in the city. The 3 big football grounds are too big in capacity terms, and the smaller ones aren't big enough/the pitch isn't suitable. Until we can afford a 15-20k ground on a plot near enough to the city, I can't see them moving.

[Jaggy Snake]

2 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

The idea is for both to be self sustaining while still under SRU control, which is effectively how the NZ and Welsh regions work. That in itself shows the difficulty - while it works in NZ, it really doesn't in Wales. I think we'd be on the NZ end of the scale, since there is still an acceptance here that both teams are designed to produce players for Scotland, and winning things is a bonus, while the Welsh are so busy in-fighting that they fail to see the bigger picture.

Agree on Scotstoun, but there isn't currently a viable alternative in the city. The 3 big football grounds are too big in capacity terms, and the smaller ones aren't big enough/the pitch isn't suitable. Until we can afford a 15-20k ground on a plot near enough to the city, I can't see them moving.

I was trying to think of a joke about the Welsh fighting over a picture of Dan Biggar when I got distracted by this absolute bargain on eBay...

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jaggy Snake

[Jmothecat2]

I see the French and English rugby unions are considering delaying the start of their six nation campaigns in an attempt to interrupt their domestic league seasons less.

This seems like an odd step for rugby, a sport where the international game far, far outweighs the popularity of the domestic game. Surely the focus should be on maximising the exposure of the likes of the six nations to try to get kids into rugby is far more beneficial than trying to help domestic rugby leagues at the expense of the six nations?

[John Lambies Doos]

I see the French and English rugby unions are considering delaying the start of their six nation campaigns in an attempt to interrupt their domestic league seasons less.

This seems like an odd step for rugby, a sport where the international game far, far outweighs the popularity of the domestic game. Surely the focus should be on maximising the exposure of the likes of the six nations to try to get kids into rugby is far more beneficial than trying to help domestic rugby leagues at the expense of the six nations?

^money

[Jmothecat2]

^money

Isn't it the six nations that would bring most of the money though? What's the actual popularity of domestic rugby?

[John Lambies Doos]

Isn't it the six nations that would bring most of the money though? What's the actual popularity of domestic rugby?

Undoubtedly it brings money in and a lot of it. However, the English and French see an opportunity to increase revenue through their domestic leagues as well. 6 Nations still happens.
It may appear that the English and French don't give two shits about player welfare and that may be partly true; however they have far bigger playing pools which can cope. Meanwhile the celtic nations plus Italy either put two fingers up to welfare ie play players who might not have fully recovered or field weaker teams.
Either way this is a win win for England and France if they pull it off ie more domestic revenue and better chance of winning 6 nations.

[ajwffc]

Guinness PRO14  – Broadcasts & Referee Appointments

Friday, September 22, 2017

Glasgow Warriors v Munster Rugby – KO 7.35pm

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 154th competition game)
AR1: Keith Allen (SRU). AR2: Lloyd Linton (SRU)
TMO: Neil Paterson (SRU)
BBC2 Scotland: 7.30pm
TG4: 7.30pm

Benetton Rugby v Ospreys Rugby – KO 8.35pm (Italian)

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU, 91^st competition game)
AR1: Joy Neville (IRFU). AR2: Claudio Blessano (FIR)
TMO: Kevin Beggs (IRFU)
Eurosport Italia 2: 8.30pm (Italian)
BBC2 Wales: 7.30pm

Toyota Cheetahs v Leinster Rugby – KO 8pm (SA)

Referee: Mike Adamson (SRU, 11^th competition game)
AR1: Ben Whitehouse (WRU). AR2: Stuart Berry (SARU)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (SARU).
SuperSport 1: 7.45pm
Sky Sports Action: 6.45pm

 

Ulster Rugby v Dragons – KO 7.35pm

Referee: Dan Jones (WRU, 10^th competition game)
AR1: Ian Davies (WRU). AR2: Adam Jones (WRU)
TMO: John Mason (WRU).
BBC NI: 7.30pm

Saturday, September 23, 2017

Connacht Rugby v Cardiff Blues – 3.15pm

Referee: Marius Mitrea (FIR, 71^st competition game)
AR1: Andrea Piardi (FIR). AR2: Nigel Correll (IRFU)
TMO: Stefano Roscini (FIR)
Sky Sports Action: 3pm

Scarlets v Edinburgh Rugby – KO 7.35pm

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 64^th competition game)
AR1: David Wilkinson (IRFU). AR2: Gwyn Morris (WRU)
TMO: Brian MacNiece (IRFU)
S4C: 7.15pm

Southern Kings v Zebre Rugby – KO 7:35pm (SA)

Referee: Sean Gallagher (IRFU, 5th competition game)
AR1: Andrew Brace (IRFU). AR2: Quinton Immelman (SARU)
TMO: Marius Jonker (SARU)
SuperSport: 7.15pm

 

[GAD]

Oh goody, "No nonsense" Nigel doing the full "You're not playing soccer now boyo" for the cameras all over the big grudge match. Can't wait.

[dogmc]

Oh goody, "No nonsense" Nigel doing the full "You're not playing soccer now boyo" for the cameras all over the big grudge match. Can't wait.

Is one of few refs who stands up to Munster cheating tho. Apart from a sa ref bout as good a pick as could be hoped for

[John Lambies Doos]

Is one of few refs who stands up to Munster cheating tho. Apart from a sa ref bout as good a pick as could be hoped for

 

I don't mind Nigel and totally agree with your point. I genuinely believe that if he had refereed the 2011 Scotland v Argentina WC match, we would have made QF. I also reckon we would have least made semis if he had refereed the 2015 WC Scotland v Oz game..... oh and there would have been riots in NZ apres the 2011 WC final if Nige had been in charge.

Never intimidated

 

[ajwffc]

 
and there would have been riots in NZ apres the 2011 WC final if Nige had been in charge.
Never intimidated
 

I don't think Nigel is any good at goal kicking.

[ajwffc]

Munster fans crying over Glasgows tactics before the game has started

[John Lambies Doos]

I don't think Nigel is any good at goal kicking.

Nige is good at everything. How dare you question him