GAD Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 It's a good Fiji team. Some big players from the French league will be available for this one (not least Nakawara), and they'll be desperate to win at home. Think this will be a very tough match, much tougher than Italy. Reading the bit Barclay wrote on the BBC, it's a bit of a travesty that more big teams don't make the effort to get out there more. Happy to steal their players, can't be arsed to turn up and give them a game. It's shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 21 hours ago, dogmc said: Shows our strength in depth that we can field as strong a side as that with so many first picks missing.eta of the 3 guys who miss out, the 2nd row has only had a couple of games for embra so was never likely to start. Rae n Kennedy could conceivably have been given game time off the bench but it would still have been a big step up for them. They will have gained a lot from the whole training camp and tour. Grigg has certainly earned a cap after his performances last season. Ten years ago he'd be a 50 + cap player. We have ludicrous strength in depth at centre. is there any areas of the team you think we are we weak or have a lack of strength in depth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 is there any areas of the team you think we are we weak or have a lack of strength in depth? Hooker and specifically throwing in. Beyond brown n ford there's only really pat mccarthur but he's pretty ropey on line outs. That's certainly an area where we could go more cover. Perhaps 10 we need to see more of what Horne n Jackson can do there till hastings is ready. Beyond that we seem to be in pretty fine fettle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Hooker and specifically throwing in. Beyond brown n ford there's only really pat mccarthur but he's pretty ropey on line outs. That's certainly an area where we could go more cover. Perhaps 10 we need to see more of what Horne n Jackson can do there till hastings is ready. Beyond that we seem to be in pretty fine fettle. Still time for a project player hooker, I reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Still time for a project player hooker, I reckon. Oh defo. We aren't struggling there tbf we just don't have the depth that we do in centre or 2nd row. No doubt there will be one or two coming through the academy system. We have been guilty like most other nations in recent years of neglecting the technical aspects of the position and simply trying to use it as an extra flanker. Hopefully this is being rectified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Wales fukin hanging on for their life's against 78 0 Samoa. Cmon Samoa one last push 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Wales fukin hanging on for their life's against 78 0 Samoa. Cmon Samoa one last push You have to factor in the 25 players Wales have on Lions duty I suppose, but that's still a poor result even though they hung on for the win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 TBF it is pretty much the Welsh 3rd team that's playing given the first and second choice players are all with the Lions! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 In terms of strength in depth, I think it is incredible how far we have come on in the last few years. Its not to long ago you would look at the subs bench and you would think to yourself, I hope no one gets injured as you didn't want someone getting on the pitch as they were no where near international standard. I had a look at the squad from the World Cup and the following players who were in that squad have not been involved either this Scotland tour or the Lions either due to injury or just not picked, Bryce, McInally, Dickinson, Grant, Sutherland, Welsh, Gilchrist, R.Grey, Cowan, Denton, Hidalgo-Clyne, Weir, Bennett, Vernon, Maitland Also Strockosh and Lamont have retired since If you are looking at our weakest positions, I would say hooker to start (as has been mentioned). We need to start developing hookers earlier, rather than converting backrows in their early 20's when they aren't good enough to get in the team as a backrow. Prop, 2nd row and wing forwards we have plenty off and no concerns, No.8 is a bit of a concern for me, Strauss is good - solid but could be improved on, Wilson can be a liability (in terms off needing a 10 minute rest during games) but is a good player, Denton is too injury prone, and dont think he suits the way we play now, Fagerson looks a player so may be the answer. Scrum half we are sorted, 10 after Russell there is a huge drop to Horne, Jackson and Weir. Hastings is next down but untried, dont know if Kinghorn is an option, he has played their for Edinburgh, but dont know if he was good - cracking fullback prospect though Centres we look fine as we do on the wing. At Fullback after Hogg there is no natural replacement, I thought Tonks did well against Oz, Taylor was fine vs Italy, Maitland can play there also, and Kinghorn as noted above. The issue we have is that we are developing loads of players, but dont have the club sides to play them, so we have to ship them off to England and France, then they dont get as much time as a Squad as they have to stay with the clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Wales fukin hanging on for their life's against 78 0 Samoa. Cmon Samoa one last push Sakes, I read that as Wales being 78-0 up on Samoa and you sarcastically egging Samoa on. I couldn't believe they'd been tanned again. You b^stard! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Sakes, I read that as Wales being 78-0 up on Samoa and you sarcastically egging Samoa on. I couldn't believe they'd been tanned again. You b^stard! A different slant on comment I guess.... glad it confused you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 In terms of strength in depth, I think it is incredible how far we have come on in the last few years. Its not to long ago you would look at the subs bench and you would think to yourself, I hope no one gets injured as you didn't want someone getting on the pitch as they were no where near international standard. I had a look at the squad from the World Cup and the following players who were in that squad have not been involved either this Scotland tour or the Lions either due to injury or just not picked, Bryce, McInally, Dickinson, Grant, Sutherland, Welsh, Gilchrist, R.Grey, Cowan, Denton, Hidalgo-Clyne, Weir, Bennett, Vernon, Maitland Also Strockosh and Lamont have retired since If you are looking at our weakest positions, I would say hooker to start (as has been mentioned). We need to start developing hookers earlier, rather than converting backrows in their early 20's when they aren't good enough to get in the team as a backrow. Prop, 2nd row and wing forwards we have plenty off and no concerns, No.8 is a bit of a concern for me, Strauss is good - solid but could be improved on, Wilson can be a liability (in terms off needing a 10 minute rest during games) but is a good player, Denton is too injury prone, and dont think he suits the way we play now, Fagerson looks a player so may be the answer. Scrum half we are sorted, 10 after Russell there is a huge drop to Horne, Jackson and Weir. Hastings is next down but untried, dont know if Kinghorn is an option, he has played their for Edinburgh, but dont know if he was good - cracking fullback prospect though Centres we look fine as we do on the wing. At Fullback after Hogg there is no natural replacement, I thought Tonks did well against Oz, Taylor was fine vs Italy, Maitland can play there also, and Kinghorn as noted above. The issue we have is that we are developing loads of players, but dont have the club sides to play them, so we have to ship them off to England and France, then they dont get as much time as a Squad as they have to stay with the clubs. Bradbury will be our future no8. He's still only 21 I think and he is very much like a junior strauss but very pacey. Fagerson also looks good but I think Bradbury carries better. For fullback Kinghorn is very much the next cab off the rank for covering hogg in the future. Already got a lot of pro12 game time under his belt and looked a class above the rest of the u20s (no mean feat given how well they performed). He's quick strong and has a decent boot on him. Must have been a close call between taking him on senior tour or u20s. As you said compared to even a few years ago the strength in depth is incredible. In the next cpl of years we will need to either commit to London Scottish or a pro caley reds in order to ensure young players are getting enough senior pro game time. Previously we just didn't have enough guys and a 3rd side would have been zebre style cannon fodder. This would also ease the burden on Glasgow and to an extent embra during autumn/6n/rwc. All in all we are in a pretty good place. Crazy to think guys like Dougie fyffe Blair Cowan n Johnny beattie can't get near the squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 43 minutes ago, dogmc said: In the next cpl of years we will need to either commit to London Scottish or a pro caley reds in order to ensure young players are getting enough senior pro game time. Previously we just didn't have enough guys and a 3rd side would have been zebre style cannon fodder. You've mentioned a few times we should be trying to get a third senior side again but we're still a long, long way from being able to justify that. While Glasgow, until this season anyway, have been improving regularly over the last few years Edinburgh have been underperforming for far too long. Since the Pro12 expanded to 12 teams in 2010 Edinburgh’s finishing positions have been 8, 11, 10, 8, 8, 9, 9. Given in the last 2 years, at the very least, finishing above the Italian teams should be pretty much a given (though Edinburgh have finished behind Treviso twice previously) 8th and 9th place finishes should still be considered extremely disappointing. If it wasn’t for a couple of good runs in the European Challenge Cup there really would have been no positives from them for the last few years. You obviously can’t put all their failures down to a lack of Scottish talent, and you’d hope Richard Cockerill coming in will improve them, but we need to get Edinburgh performing before looking elsewhere. It would be great to have three teams to share the Six Nations burden and give more young players opportunities but you have to be realistic, if we can’t get two senior sides performing well at the same time, adding another will only make things worse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 If there is going to be any expansion to the Pro12 either through the US / Canada or SA, we definitely need to be in their lobbying for a 3rd Pro team in Scotland. Granted Edinburgh have been poor, but I dont think they have been whipping boy levels of poor, its more down to the fine margins, and pretty poor coaching. If you look at the pro12 it would be a big ask for any team to break into the top 6 of Glasgow, Munster, Ulster, Leinster, Scarlets and Ospreays. Add in Connaught at home are a match for anyone, and Cardiff should be a top team its about where you would expect them to be. If you take the 35 odd guys away with Scotland / Lions, the 15 I listed from the last WC squad and others out injured there is over 50 internationals class players as a starter over 3 teams. Granted some are already playing in France & England and we maybe have to admit we cant afford to keep some in Scotland. But on top of that we have the U20's / past few years U20's / institute of sport players (im assuming the SRU pays for these guys already?), a whole host of pro club players who will never be internationals but are solid players. Add in the current foreigners and it would only take maybe an extra 10 players. Yes it would weaken Glasgow and Edinburgh slightly to start with, but in the long run it benefits everyone. The London Scottish thing will help short term to give some of the U20's / fringe players some game time, last season they took as many players as they could. There was a bit of a falling out though as the SRU had thought they were loaning youngsters and the club would have a backbone of experienced pros to help with their development, whereas London Scottish hardly had any players signed to start with and where hoping the SRU would bail them out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 You've mentioned a few times we should be trying to get a third senior side again but we're still a long, long way from being able to justify that. While Glasgow, until this season anyway, have been improving regularly over the last few years Edinburgh have been underperforming for far too long. Since the Pro12 expanded to 12 teams in 2010 Edinburgh’s finishing positions have been 8, 11, 10, 8, 8, 9, 9. Given in the last 2 years, at the very least, finishing above the Italian teams should be pretty much a given (though Edinburgh have finished behind Treviso twice previously) 8th and 9th place finishes should still be considered extremely disappointing. If it wasn’t for a couple of good runs in the European Challenge Cup there really would have been no positives from them for the last few years. You obviously can’t put all their failures down to a lack of Scottish talent, and you’d hope Richard Cockerill coming in will improve them, but we need to get Edinburgh performing before looking elsewhere. It would be great to have three teams to share the Six Nations burden and give more young players opportunities but you have to be realistic, if we can’t get two senior sides performing well at the same time, adding another will only make things worse. I agree we don't have the player resources today but within the next few years a decision has to be made where to place our developing players. It's a good problem to have tbh. Embra haven't performed consistently but equally they've had plenty of really good results / performances to suggest that there was more to be gotten from the squad. Solomons got the strength n conditioning up to speed but he was a turgid coach. Hopefully cockerill will get more from them (really not convinced by him at all if am honest) but calum mccrae is there now and he might be the guy to takeover long term. He did a fine job with the 7s and the players really respect him. Bear in mind too that putting a pro side together will take a long time to come to fruition in terms of financing, stadium, on and off field recruitment etc. I'd much rather see it done over say a 3 year period so it's not just thrown together which will also allow more young players to come through. The school of rugby initiatives are increasing the number of youngsters playing ( my wee lads club is running two teams at each of u15 u16 n u18) so player resources will come. We just need to make sure the structure is in place to take them from age grade to senior pro rugby. All our top tier clubs pay their 1st xv guys (not all huge amounts but many are effectively full time pros ) so finding some jobbers to pad out a squad wouldn't be the impossible task it was 5 years ago. If a 3rd pro side was initially at foot of table that wouldn't be a disaster or even a surprise (dragons always struggle n connacht for a long time were the same) but certainly we need Embra to kick on. I wouldn't be unhappy with the London Scottish option either although the sru might be of a mind that commercial interest in Scottish Rugby is increasing thanks to the success of Glasgow n national side. One other interim could be to have a pro side initially compete in britsh n irish cup for a couple of years and play the pro12 b teams. I'll be happy just to know a plan of some sort is in place. Since mid 90s to a few years ago there was bugger all planning in place and it showed on the field. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
same_ol_g35 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Aren't the 7's side technically Scotland's third pro team? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Aren't the 7's side technically Scotland's third pro team? Kinda but few players are permanently placed with them and the sru in its wisdom has opened talks with England n Wales to abandon the national sides from 2018/19 in favour of a British side....hopefully the furious fan reaction will prevent this happening. It's a daft idea on every level 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 links for the game http://www.scottishrugby.org/scottish-rugby-live http://www.worldrugby.org/video/261180 also on(and could stay on world rugby facebook page) but no youtube link at the moment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Yadra! Hope this game is worth getting up for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Fiji with the worst rendition of Flower of Scotland of the summer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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