nsr Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 If Ronaldo was actually any good, he wouldn't need to cheat so much. Championship level player IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 18/06/2018 at 01:13, Alan Stubbs said: If the argument is which player in history had the most natural talent, then it's subjective to the point of being a pointless discussion. And yes, availability bias would be a factor. Folk who make the case for the likes of Pele, Maradona, Best, Puskas etc actually being better players than Messi and Ronaldo are off their fucking rockers though. The argument about how the game has changed doesn't do anyone arguing for a pre-90s player any favours either. You could make a case for the elite level defenders of the 90s being better than today's (and thus the likes of OG Ronaldo having a tougher job) but the consistency of goalscoring and trophy winning from these two still put them 1st and 2nd of all time for me. I find folk who can't wait to rip one of them pretty tiresome. I'm firmly in the Messi goat camp but they're clearly both living legends, who I don't see anyone replicating any time soon. I feel lucky to have watched their careers. The wee geeks who refuse to appreciate one of them and yer da who thinks football was stronger in the 70s are missing out. So folk who make a case for Pele and Maradona are off their rockers, but you can confidently state Messi and Ronaldo are no. 1 and 2 of all time? What a lot of shite. The point was made earlier that its impossible to compare players from different generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I couldnt choose between the two when you compare their careers to be honest. Both are better than those before them. The Ronaldo fanboys do my tits in though, some will claim to be trolling but the utter desperation from them for Ronaldo to be seen as better is pretty pathetic. Grown men at times too. They are a parodied attitude of Ronaldo at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pub car king Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 So far in this world cup big Ron is the only show in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullard Bluteau Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I think the age old argument about who is the best of all time will continue without end. Its likely that after Pele ,Puskas and Di Stefano , people thought they had seen the best, then along comes Cruyff and Beckenbauer, followed by Maradona and Zico. There was the Brazilian Ronaldo and now its Messi and Cristian Ronaldo. There will be successors to them without question and records continue to be broken. Still believe Pele was the best, having scored >1000 goals and in the best league in the world at the time. Maradona running him close . Best player ever in Europe was Cruyff. Its very much a matter of opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 The question is that we are now nearing the end of Chrissy and Leo's careers, where are the next ones coming from? Other than that annoying little ponce Neymar who quite frankly is relatively shit anyway, who will be the next superstar. (Im too old btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 3 hours ago, PauloPerth said: So folk who make a case for Pele and Maradona are off their rockers, but you can confidently state Messi and Ronaldo are no. 1 and 2 of all time? What a lot of shite. The point was made earlier that its impossible to compare players from different generations. As I've already said, if the argument is on talent then aye, make the case for anyone you want. The difference in sports science and conditioning (some of it questionable and some of it based on vastly better levels of professionalism from the modern players) means you aren't comparing like for like with this argument. My point is that anyone actually comparing them literally is a fucking idiot. Let's imagine you could somehow place Ronaldo or Messi back in time to replace one of the older players mentioned. If anyone doesn't think they're scoring about 10 goals a game, then they are indeed off their rocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 But they'd also have to contend with being kicked all over the park. I'm not disagreeing with you about how great Messi and Ronaldo are, we're lucky to have both playing at the same time, which probably drives each of them on to break records. Best players of a generation by a long way. To balance the argument though, both have played their whole careers with World superteams, so obviously they're going to score loads of goals and win trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Also pitches back in the day weren't the lush green bowling greens which Krissy and Lio rest their toes upon. Imagine those two trying to dribble a ball across a quaqmire barely a step above the no man's land of the Battle of the Somme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkie84 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 You also have to take into account when comparing scoring records that modern players play far more games. For instance Puskas played 4 European ties a season, 7 games in all, including the final. Ronaldo and messi play far more than that so similar goal to game ratios , Messi and Ronaldo are going to get a rake more goals. Same at international level, fewer qualifiers and smaller World Cup and European championship tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 To balance the argument though, both have played their whole careers with World superteams, so obviously they're going to score loads of goals and win trophies. This is a good point In the modern game if you’re good enough to be on the shortlist for “best player in the world” it’s inevitable that you’ll be at a club where many of your teammates will at least be on the long list In the post-Bosnam world we very seldom see world class players at non world class clubs for any length of time An extreme case was Stanley Matthews . He was the first European footballer of the year was and generally acknowledged by his contemporaries to be the finest English player of his generation. But he played for Blackpool and so his only major honour was a solitary FA Cup win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidernation Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I would love to find the quote but I can’t where Franz Beckenbauer said Willie Miller was the best penalty box defender in the world.Times change, rules change and even football from the 80’s is not football like it is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 2 hours ago, PauloPerth said: But they'd also have to contend with being kicked all over the park. While on the flipside, Pele, Maradona and Cruyff would have to contend with teams who defend as a unit, put 10 men behind the ball and allow forwards far less space than they were afforded decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kebab Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This is a good point In the modern game if you’re good enough to be on the shortlist for “best player in the world” it’s inevitable that you’ll be at a club where many of your teammates will at least be on the long list In the post-Bosnam world we very seldom see world class players at non world class clubs for any length of time An extreme case was Stanley Matthews . He was the first European footballer of the year was and generally acknowledged by his contemporaries to be the finest English player of his generation. But he played for Blackpool and so his only major honour was a solitary FA Cup win. What about his two 2nd Division Championships with Stoke???[emoji6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, King Kebab said: What about his two 2nd Division Championships with Stoke??? Amazingly he won the first at the age of 18 and the latter at the age of 48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 20/06/2018 at 14:14, topcat(The most tip top) said: Messi's career hasn't finished yet So that's an unfair comparison Thursday 20:50 hrs...you can compare them now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oooooft Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 06/20/2018 at 14:14, topcat(The most tip top) said: Messi's career hasn't finished yet So that's an unfair comparison It is now.... So that leaves Ronaldo with a less than 2% conversion on his trademark free kicks. Took. Off. Suarez isn't the best Uruguayan striker, but because he played in the English leagues he's their 'hope'. 'Mo' was a busted injured flush, he's out. ( why do they demuslimfy their heroes by calling them Mo? - see 'father forgive me for I have signed) Hope mexico smash every c**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 hours ago, gannonball said: I couldnt choose between the two when you compare their careers to be honest. Both are better than those before them. The Ronaldo fanboys do my tits in though, some will claim to be trolling but the utter desperation from them for Ronaldo to be seen as better is pretty pathetic. Grown men at times too. They are a parodied attitude of Ronaldo at times. It's exactly the same on the other side to be fair. If you're fanboying that much that you're so desperate that one is thought of as clearly better, then you're probably a VL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Someone needs to tell people in Zagreb that Ronaldo wonThey think it was Croatia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 The Messi fan boys are making terrible excuses for him being pish. He has been done for years. His increase in pishness coincided with Xavi retiring and Iniesta getting older. Make of that what you will. Ronaldo has been consistently brilliant even when Real have been pish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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