Emigration

[hk blues]

For me, the first move was to Hong Kong in 2004 due to my 1st Wife's job - loved it there and started to teach English.  Found it easy enough to adapt as many of my colleagues were British and, to be honest, it's difficult to make good friends with the locals in Hong Kong for all sorts of reasons.  Lasted 10 years there and then moved to the Philippines (where my 2nd wife is from) for mainly financial reasons - my plan was to live somewhere cheap enough to retire at 50.  But for Brexit it might have worked out, but am now working as an online teacher here.  All in all, it's got its good and bad points by certainly liveable. And we just got EPL on cable here today so things are looking up!

[Ross.]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

The Danes weren't as bad as the Finns. I had a season ticket for the ice hockey and sat beside the same father and son throughout the year and didn't get a single word out of them. I finally got some chat with other fans on the bus back from an away game when everyone was properly drunk. The same folk acted like I was a ghost at the next home game.

There was not a single public place to watch sport on TV. Everyone just watched Denmark win handball gold at the Olympics from their living room, presumably sandwiched between documentaries about Euro '92.

42% tax in Denmark (plus tithe to the Danish Church)
 

Work with a few Finnish guys here. None of them appear to like each other and all 3 are, in the nicest possible way, rather odd. They are sociable enough but seem completely oblivious to the basics of interpersonal relationships and how to interact with others. Having grown up with a younger brother who has Aspergers, I could easily believe all 3 were extreme cases.

Pubs showing sports is similarly rare here. You can find places in the cities but most small towns don't have much in the way of it. Scottish boy I ended up working for for a while here owns a couple of pubs and does very well from it because he noticed that gap in the market.

42% tax? f**k that. As for the church, I am legally declared as not belonging to any church here, simply because I don't want to pay them their 1% a month or whatever it is.

13 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I've never really lived anywhere which had much of an "ex-pat" community until now and I do like winding them up by saying "Ex-pat? Oh! You mean you're an immigrant." as they're generally smug c***s who think they're better than both those they left behind and those they now live amongst.

The older I get the more I miss Scotland and worry about one of my parents dying suddenly and having already seen them for the last time.

Pub not far from my work is generally full of these types. I go in occasionally but try to avoid. The "immigrant" wind up seems to get them going as well.

Bottom bit is probably the only thing that would make me move back. My old man died earlier this year having spent the preceding 18 months in a nursing home with Dementia. Was back and forward regularly and as much as I know I couldn't have done any more even if I was living in Scotland, it was still a fucking killer. The thought of having to go through it again with other relatives has been the only thing outside the first few months of being here that has made me consider moving home again.

[Miguel Sanchez]

17 hours ago, Torpar said:

In concussion I moved because I had grown tired of Scotland and I plan to never move back

Not surprised you've ended up with a concussion if that's how people board trains there

[Jacksgranda]

17 hours ago, Torpar said:

I started playing ice hockey when I was 8 or 9 years old. Since then I’ve always had a interest in Canada. First visited as a tourist in early 2009, like Toronto so much I went back in November of the same year. Through university ice hockey I meet a lot of Canadians, including a guy I’d now consider my best friend, an Ojibwa guy. I was lucky enough to visit his family on his home reserve in 2011 and since then, much to the annoyance of friends and family, expressed how much I wanted to try living there and how much I disliked Scotland in comparison. I honestly didn’t feel happy anymore living in Scotland. I finally got my one year open work permit in December 2013 and moved in May 2014.

I didn’t really find it too hard to integrate being that English is the main language used in Toronto and that I joined a friend’s ice hockey team as soon as I got there so had 20 odd instant friends. But the first few months weren’t easy in general, my last job in Edinburgh I was doing well and been offered a promotion and pay rise. I turned them down to move on my own to a new country with no job and no place to live. Quickly found a room to rent in a house but work was hard. I quickly realised in the labour market I’m just another fresh off the boat immigrant, no different to a guy from the Philippines or India. Had some poorly paid, at times back breaking jobs to start with. I seriously considered calling my dad and asking if he would pay for my flight home but got lucky with my current job and decided to stick it out. Towards the end of my first year I applied for a new two year work permit which I got, meet my girlfriend, now common law spouse and recently became a permanent resident with her as my sponsor. I intend to apply for citizenship as soon as I become eligible.

 In comparison with my hometown, Toronto couldn’t be more different. Inverkeithing has a population of 6000 ish, I’d say when I left 99.9% of the people there were White Scottish/British and doubt it’s changed much since. Toronto is considered by many to be the most diverse city in the world. Just over half of the city indentifies as being a visible minority. One small thing I hated when I first got here was the way people boarded public transport, didn’t matter if you had been waiting half an hour for the tram or had just got there, if you are closest to the door you get on first, now I like it. Forget all this ‘no please after you’ nonsense, just get on and get on with it. The stereotype of almost cringe worthy Canadian politeness can definitely still be found in small town Canada but it’s far from the case in Toronto much like any other big city. Most people only have time for themselves and I’ve found myself acting like this too now. The public transport system also makes me miss Scotrail!

I of course miss my family a little, I’ve only been back to Scotland once since moving but my parents and brother have been over a few times and I keep in contact via Whatsapp and a weekly phone call to my mother.  I used to shop at a supermarket that stocks Irn Bru but don’t go there anymore and haven’t found myself craving it or anything. My local corner shop sells sausage rolls but I’d love a Stephens one or a proper chippy every now and then. I usually have a choice of 4 or 5 English games at 10am on a Saturday morning but it’s not the same as watching the Pars in person. I also miss being able to buy beer pretty much any shop rather than having to go to the Provincial government owned shop. Which all close by 5pm on Sundays. On the plus side, the diversity means the choice of food (and woman) in Toronto is unbelievable. You name you can find it somewhere here. I enjoyed El Salvadoran pupusas (the food) for the first time at the weekend!

In concussion I moved because I had grown tired of Scotland and I plan to never move back

Did you hit your head on the door frame on the way out?

[Torpar]

@Miguel Sanchez had the much better joke there. In my defense, English can be hard for some immigrants. 

One thing that does annoy me here is that I get the impression a lot of immigrants have no desire to really integrate. They are numerous Little, insert city/country name, communities. Little Portual/ Mogadishu/Italy/India/Poland even Little Malta, Greektown Two Koreatowns and Chinatowns.  Areas that are mostly Jewish. You could quite easier live in a neighbourhood surrounded by your fellow countryman, go to a doctor from your home country, do your banking only in your native language and only eat food originally from your home country. I often wonder why some people moved in the first place. Someone at work told me about a "Uk Ex-pats" meetup group. I couldn't imagine anything worse.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

DEFENCE

[Shandon Par]

4 minutes ago, Torpar said:

@Miguel Sanchez had the much better joke there. In my defense, English can be hard for some immigrants. 

One thing that does annoy me here is that I get the impression a lot of immigrants have no desire to really integrate. They are numerous Little, insert city/country name, communities. Little Portual/ Mogadishu/Italy/India/Poland even Little Malta, Greektown Two Koreatowns and Chinatowns.  Areas that are mostly Jewish. You could quite easier live in a neighbourhood surrounded by your fellow countryman, go to a doctor from your home country, do your banking only in your native language and only eat food originally from your home country. I often wonder why some people moved in the first place. Someone at work told me about a "Uk Ex-pats" meetup group. I couldn't imagine anything worse.

Imagine a Little Inverkeithing. Shudder. 

[Shandon Par]

Just now, Melanius Mullarkey said:

DEFENCE

Don't take OFFENSE.

[Torpar]

9 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

DEFENCE

Clap clap clap

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 hour ago, Shandon Par said:

Imagine a Littler Inverkeithing. Shudder. 

FTFY 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

On 29 May 2018 at 18:48, Torpar said:

I started playing ice hockey when I was 8 or 9 years old. Since then I’ve always had a interest in Canada. First visited as a tourist in early 2009, like Toronto so much I went back in November of the same year. Through university ice hockey I meet a lot of Canadians, including a guy I’d now consider my best friend, an Ojibwa guy. I was lucky enough to visit his family on his home reserve in 2011 and since then, much to the annoyance of friends and family, expressed how much I wanted to try living there and how much I disliked Scotland in comparison. I honestly didn’t feel happy anymore living in Scotland. I finally got my one year open work permit in December 2013 and moved in May 2014.

I didn’t really find it too hard to integrate being that English is the main language used in Toronto and that I joined a friend’s ice hockey team as soon as I got there so had 20 odd instant friends. But the first few months weren’t easy in general, my last job in Edinburgh I was doing well and been offered a promotion and pay rise. I turned them down to move on my own to a new country with no job and no place to live. Quickly found a room to rent in a house but work was hard. I quickly realised in the labour market I’m just another fresh off the boat immigrant, no different to a guy from the Philippines or India. Had some poorly paid, at times back breaking jobs to start with. I seriously considered calling my dad and asking if he would pay for my flight home but got lucky with my current job and decided to stick it out. Towards the end of my first year I applied for a new two year work permit which I got, meet my girlfriend, now common law spouse and recently became a permanent resident with her as my sponsor. I intend to apply for citizenship as soon as I become eligible.

 In comparison with my hometown, Toronto couldn’t be more different. Inverkeithing has a population of 6000 ish, I’d say when I left 99.9% of the people there were White Scottish/British and doubt it’s changed much since. Toronto is considered by many to be the most diverse city in the world. Just over half of the city indentifies as being a visible minority. One small thing I hated when I first got here was the way people boarded public transport, didn’t matter if you had been waiting half an hour for the tram or had just got there, if you are closest to the door you get on first, now I like it. Forget all this ‘no please after you’ nonsense, just get on and get on with it. The stereotype of almost cringe worthy Canadian politeness can definitely still be found in small town Canada but it’s far from the case in Toronto much like any other big city. Most people only have time for themselves and I’ve found myself acting like this too now. The public transport system also makes me miss Scotrail!

I of course miss my family a little, I’ve only been back to Scotland once since moving but my parents and brother have been over a few times and I keep in contact via Whatsapp and a weekly phone call to my mother.  I used to shop at a supermarket that stocks Irn Bru but don’t go there anymore and haven’t found myself craving it or anything. My local corner shop sells sausage rolls but I’d love a Stephens one or a proper chippy every now and then. I usually have a choice of 4 or 5 English games at 10am on a Saturday morning but it’s not the same as watching the Pars in person. I also miss being able to buy beer pretty much any shop rather than having to go to the Provincial government owned shop. Which all close by 5pm on Sundays. On the plus side, the diversity means the choice of food (and woman) in Toronto is unbelievable. You name you can find it somewhere here. I enjoyed El Salvadoran pupusas (the food) for the first time at the weekend!

In conclusion I moved because I had grown tired of Scotland and I plan to never move back

How was the process for obtaining common law status? How much did you end up paying/how long did it take?

[JamieThomas]

On 29/05/2018 at 11:37, Ross. said:

Pros - Lifestyle, weather, standard of living, money, standard of swatch

Negatives - Family and friends, lack of proper drinking culture

Will I move home? Doubtful but not ruling it out.

Change "standard of swatch" for "not having to watch Hearts" and that's where I'm at.

[Mon_The_Fife]

I moved to New Zealand in 2014 after becoming a bit disillusioned with Fife (hard concept to grasp right?). I knew a couple of people here so made settling in easier, also had a job lined up beforehand so had a bit of security. I like NZ and I probably have a better lifestyle here than I did back in Scotland. Got myself into a few football teams which I couldn’t do back home with shift work, my job involves 3x 12.5 shifts a week meaning I’m off every weekend, and with plenty ex pats around in a way it still feels like home. I miss Scotland now and again, it can be tough with friends and family on the other side of the world, I have 2 nephews whom I haven’t seen yet. I’m probably here for life now though as my mrs is a Kiwi’.

I do miss the football as I quickly got over getting up at 2am on a Sunday but it’s not difficult to catch up on all things East Fife these days, thanks to sites like this and others.

Heading back to Scotland in July for a holiday with the mrs, looking forward to it and hoping to explore more of the country which I took for granted when I actually bloody lived there!

[The_Kincardine]

On 5/29/2018 at 17:06, ICTJohnboy said:

Okay, I'll bite.

Apart from the Brexit nutters others that annoy me are those who ask if I'm Scotch? (Ask Kincardine) Then they'll come out with stuff like "Och aye, aw right, the noo, Jock" which they seem to find utterly hilarious.

You recent Scotch exiles seem a right sensitive bunch

I came to London for Uni is 1981 and, apart from 7/8 years when the weans were wee and we lived in both Edinburgh and Aberdeenshire, have been in London or Bucks ever since.  I've never found any of the problems that you have - but then I've never lived in Lankashire.  

On the Brexit thing...none of my social circle have admitted to voting for Brexit and, on the whole, I believe them.  Indeed, the only pro-Brexit voters that I'm socially acquainted with were my sister and her man in Hamilton.  Shame on them.  Where I live the vote was solidly for remain.  It's a very mixed community and it was a welcome outcome even if our (Tory) MP (Steve Baker) is a sad-sack leaver.

As far as the, "Och aye, aw right, the noo, Jock" mentality goes?  I have a slightly different take.  My 17 yo's egg-chasing team (club rather than school) has 4 players who are 2nd generation Scots and who are all first picks for the 1st XV.  His current squeeze is a very nice lassie whose maw is from Perth.  My son's view is, "Everyone down here is a half to an eighth Scottish so it's dull.  When I go out I tell people I'm half Swedish"

[sjc]

On 5/30/2018 at 03:15, Melanius Mullarkey said:

I hope none of you come back tbh.

I'm coming back in August so GIRFUY!

[sjc]

Lived in Manchester for the best part of 10 years and London for 3 years and never really had a problem. Did get asked the "Scotch" question a few times but lets be honest we've all been called a lot worse by our mates!

London was a bit too big for my liking and living there definitely felt like a rat race to me.......I dare say I'd feel the same living in any similar sized City TBH.

If you find moving to England a culture shock then I suggest you never move to Japan. You head might just explode!

[The_Kincardine]

3 hours ago, Mon_The_Fife said:

I do miss the football as I quickly got over getting up at 2am on a Sunday but it’s not difficult to catch up on all things East Fife these days, thanks to sites like this and others.

London is hardly 'abroad' but in the early 80s getting Scottish football news was a real challenge.  If you missed the results on  Radio 2 on a Saturday then you had to wait until you bought a paper on Sunday.  

My auld dear used to cut out the back pages of Monday's Herald and post them to me each week - along with the Tom Shield's diary.

[sjc]

8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

London is hardly 'abroad' but in the early 80s getting Scottish football news was a real challenge.  If you missed the results on  Radio 2 on a Saturday then you had to wait until you bought a paper on Sunday.  

My auld dear used to cut out the back pages of Monday's Herald and post them to me each week - along with the Tom Shield's diary.

It wasn't that different in Scotland TBH unless you got hold of the Sporting Post on a Saturday night!

[The_Kincardine]

33 minutes ago, sjc said:

It wasn't that different in Scotland TBH unless you got hold of the Sporting Post on a Saturday night!

Aye but, if you'd been to Ibrox and were then off on a night out they were useless.  They'd be selling the papers outside the stadium by full time but only gave the half time results.  By the time the Final Edition came out getting a lumber was a greater priority...

 

[MSU]

Me and ex-missus split up in 2011 and she bought me out of the house we had in Alloa. Using some of that money, I took a holiday to Boston. I used to love coming to the US in the 1990s and hadn't had a foreign holiday in some time. I was a member of a US based writers forum and arranged to meet up with some of them during that trip. One of those people ended up becoming current wife. We had hit it off over a couple of visits and decided to take a punt and go for it. Luckily for me, the firm I worked for in the UK had a US sister company. Even luckier for me, my first check on their jobs board was advertising my current job. I applied and I got an interview. The first question they asked me was, "You know this job is in Michigan, right?" We hit it off and one evening, as I was sitting at the bar at Morrison's in Stirling, I got a call offering me the job. Because of the relationship between the two companies, I was eligible for an L1-B visa. Still took four months of documentation gathering to get it approved.

I remember going to Edinburgh airport and saying goodbye to my mum and thinking, "Well, I guess I'm moving to Michigan, then." I think I always expected a spanner to drop into the works. It didn't. The first time I was in Michigan was the day I moved to Michigan. That still fucks with my head,

It's been six years and I don't regret a thing. Back in the 90s, I had a cousin who tried to get me to work for him in New York and it would never have worked out. Back then, it was impossible to find a Champions League game showing anywhere in Manhattan. There was no Facebook or FaceTime. This year, I saw the CL final for the fifth time live in my local pub in Nowhere, Michigan. And 100,000 people will turn up to see Man U and Liverpool at Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor for a friendly. I can see UK TV shows. I can listen to UK radio shows. British podcasts help. Plus, as coincidence would have it, there's a guy from Liverpool who moved to my town at the same time as I did. We became friends, compared notes and stuff, play Trivia every week and win more times than not, and have been in a constant search for an Irishman so we can walk into our local and wait for a joke to ensue.

I miss my friends. I don't have much family left in the UK. I miss the NHS. I have a strange pride in being an immigrant. My green card is my prized possession. I don't see me being in Michigan forever. The winters are fucking brutal. But apart from that, why make such a big move and stop? The world is there to be seen. I have no idea if or when I will ever be back in Scotland. I'm kinda okay with that.