Emigration

[Kejan]

I've seen a few folk on here who live in various places, and I'm curious (nosey bassa) to wonder what made you make you move.

Was it difficult to integrate? Are there things you initially disliked, or loved but have gone full circle on? Will you ever come back, and what do you miss about home?  What were the pros-cons in general of moving? Even if it's to another part of Scotland, RUK/Ireland - were there any oddities you noticed different from your hometown. And, if you are from somewhere else, but live in Scotland, what are we like, and was it hard to get to know/understand/integrate with us? 

 

 

[Ross.]

Missus is half Swiss/Scottish and was living in Glasgow when we met. She decided she preferred life here, I didn't take the hint, and I've been here 6 years now.

Pros - Lifestyle, weather, standard of living, money, standard of swatch

Negatives - Family and friends, lack of proper drinking culture

Will I move home? Doubtful but not ruling it out.

[ICTJohnboy]

Okay, I'll bite.

I moved to the Burnley area about 6 months ago. It certainly wasn't my choice and is by no means an idyllic location but my partner has  daughters and now grandchildren in this area.  We lived in Inverness for nearly 20 years and although not my hometown, I would move back to that area there in a heartbeat. 

There are many pros and cons regards life in this area :

I've been able to enjoy watching the likes of Spurs, Man U and Chelsea playing at Turf Moor which is a pretty decent venue.

There is an excellent selection of pubs around here whether in or out of town. Many of these offer good bar meals at very good prices - you don't have to go to Wetherspoons for cheap food and drink.

The motorway network around this area would drive you mad. The moment you try and get from A to B you can get caught up and stuck for hours in traffic jams. I've lost count of the number of times I've picked up traffic announcements on the car radio with the message that "That hold up we mentioned earlier because of an accident on the M6/M60/M61/M62/M65 has just got worse because of another accident involving queuing traffic" That of course means that someone's run in to the back of a queue.

I'm also finding it hard to adjust to living in an area where nearly 70% voted for Brexit. When you start speaking to them - whether neighbours, or pub regulars - you invariably find they voted Brexit because of all these foreigners coming over here - taking our jobs/signing on/seeking free medical treatment on NHS. Frank Boyle summed it up perfectly the other night on TV when he suggested that so many voted Brexit to stop all these people coming in from Europe because they don't like Pakistanis!

Other things that annoy me - You ask for a whisky in a pub they generally give you a 25 ml measure - that actually looks like someone had given you a dirty glass! The standard measure in Scotland is 35ml. To be fair, I have found some decent ales in the local pubs.

Apart from the Brexit nutters others that annoy me are those who ask if I'm Scotch? (Ask Kincardine) Then they'll come out with stuff like "Och aye, aw right, the noo, Jock" which they seem to find utterly hilarious. The more coherent of them will very often try to engage you in a serious discussion by advising that  "Scotland could not survive without England" and "That mad woman's got her figures all wrong" Another comment I've heard on more than one occasion is that : "We love Scotland, we went to Dumfries once"

"We're all one country" they're fond of saying.   Perish the fucking thought.

Oh.... Just remembered, the local Iceland store here has a big notice at the check outs proclaiming that they do not accept Scottish or Irish notes. They can f**k off an' all.

 

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

8 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Okay, I'll bite.

I moved to the Burnley area about 6 months ago. It certainly wasn't my choice and is by no means an idyllic location but my partner has  daughters and now grandchildren in this area.  We lived in Inverness for nearly 20 years and although not my hometown, I would move back to that area there in a heartbeat. 

There are many pros and cons regards life in this area :

I've been able to enjoy watching the likes of Spurs, Man U and Chelsea playing at Turf Moor which is a pretty decent venue.

There is an excellent selection of pubs around here whether in or out of town. Many of these offer good bar meals at very good prices - you don't have to go to Wetherspoons for cheap food and drink.

The motorway network around this area would drive you mad. The moment you try and get from A to B you can get caught up and stuck for hours in traffic jams. I've lost count of the number of times I've picked up traffic announcements on the car radio with the message that "That hold up we mentioned earlier because of an accident on the M6/M60/M61/M62/M65 has just got worse because of another accident involving queuing traffic" That of course means that someone's run in to the back of a queue.

I'm also finding it hard to adjust to living in an area where nearly 70% voted for Brexit. When you start speaking to them - whether neighbours, or pub regulars - you invariably find they voted Brexit because of all these foreigners coming over here - taking our jobs/signing on/seeking free medical treatment on NHS. Frank Boyle summed it up perfectly the other night on TV when he suggested that so many voted Brexit to stop all these people coming in from Europe because they don't like Pakistanis!

Other things that annoy me - You ask for a whisky in a pub they generally give you a 25 ml measure - that actually looks like someone had given you a dirty glass! The standard measure in Scotland is 35ml. To be fair, I have found some decent ales in the local pubs.

Apart from the Brexit nutters others that annoy me are those who ask if I'm Scotch? (Ask Kincardine) Then they'll come out with stuff like "Och aye, aw right, the noo, Jock" which they seem to find utterly hilarious. The more coherent of them will very often try to engage you in a serious discussion by advising that  "Scotland could not survive without England" and "That mad woman's got her figures all wrong" Another comment I've heard on more than one occasion is that : "We love Scotland, we went to Dumfries once"

"We're all one country" they're fond of saying.   Perish the fucking thought.

Oh.... Just remembered, the local Iceland store here has a big notice at the check outs proclaiming that they do not accept Scottish or Irish notes. They can f**k off an' all.

 

 

So thats a no from you then.

[LondonHMFC]

3 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

The more coherent of them will very often try to engage you in a serious discussion by advising that  "Scotland could not survive without England" and "That mad woman's got her figures all wrong" Another comment I've heard on more than one occasion is that : "We love Scotland, we went to Dumfries once"

This is my one main reason why I would move home. Nothing fucks me off more than someone saying "You can't go Independent, you could never survive" when you quiz them on why we couldn't "You just can't". They never give a real reason, few times over the four years now I have come close to losing the plot when Helen in accounts pipes up with some patronizing shite. Equally annoying is "well why do you all get free prescriptions, that isn't fair. Certainly found myself getting a lot more patriotic since moving. Made a complete c**t of myself during the last Scotland V England game. 

Apart from that though, on the whole my move South has been pretty pleasant. I get a lot more money for the work I do here than I would in Scotland, or the rest of the UK. We live within an hour of London, forty minutes of Brighton and fifteen minutes from Gatwick.

I think when retirement comes we may look to move back to Scotland, I love visiting my folks, but for the time being I am more than content down here. 

[Brother Blades]

Approaching 5 years now for me.
Although I had worked abroad (rotation) for 11 of the previous 15 years.
PRO’s- really diverse cultural mix, nice weather for 8 months per year, less restrictive tax- no income tax, fantastic sights & things to do, cheap for family / friends to have a winter break in the sun.
Cons- miss family & friends, no real “local” connection to the country I live in, tiresome ex-pat bravado (think brexiteers abroad), the 4 summer months.

[Cerberus]

I emigrated a number of years ago.
It was an adjustment for me. At first I didn't like where I was living and I didn't like my job.
I gave up a good job in the UK and at first I reconsidered moving back but I waited it out and now I'm settled.

I wouldn't want to go home now. 10 months of shite weather, the lack of decent well paid jobs and coming out the EU isn't a great thought.

The things I miss are going to the football, getting a wee pint on Ashton Lane with my pals and stupid stuff like a Greggs Roll and Links and those Marks and Spencer Millionaire's Shortbread Desserts.

[Venti]

 

[Torpar]

I started playing ice hockey when I was 8 or 9 years old. Since then I’ve always had a interest in Canada. First visited as a tourist in early 2009, like Toronto so much I went back in November of the same year. Through university ice hockey I meet a lot of Canadians, including a guy I’d now consider my best friend, an Ojibwa guy. I was lucky enough to visit his family on his home reserve in 2011 and since then, much to the annoyance of friends and family, expressed how much I wanted to try living there and how much I disliked Scotland in comparison. I honestly didn’t feel happy anymore living in Scotland. I finally got my one year open work permit in December 2013 and moved in May 2014.

I didn’t really find it too hard to integrate being that English is the main language used in Toronto and that I joined a friend’s ice hockey team as soon as I got there so had 20 odd instant friends. But the first few months weren’t easy in general, my last job in Edinburgh I was doing well and been offered a promotion and pay rise. I turned them down to move on my own to a new country with no job and no place to live. Quickly found a room to rent in a house but work was hard. I quickly realised in the labour market I’m just another fresh off the boat immigrant, no different to a guy from the Philippines or India. Had some poorly paid, at times back breaking jobs to start with. I seriously considered calling my dad and asking if he would pay for my flight home but got lucky with my current job and decided to stick it out. Towards the end of my first year I applied for a new two year work permit which I got, meet my girlfriend, now common law spouse and recently became a permanent resident with her as my sponsor. I intend to apply for citizenship as soon as I become eligible.

 In comparison with my hometown, Toronto couldn’t be more different. Inverkeithing has a population of 6000 ish, I’d say when I left 99.9% of the people there were White Scottish/British and doubt it’s changed much since. Toronto is considered by many to be the most diverse city in the world. Just over half of the city indentifies as being a visible minority. One small thing I hated when I first got here was the way people boarded public transport, didn’t matter if you had been waiting half an hour for the tram or had just got there, if you are closest to the door you get on first, now I like it. Forget all this ‘no please after you’ nonsense, just get on and get on with it. The stereotype of almost cringe worthy Canadian politeness can definitely still be found in small town Canada but it’s far from the case in Toronto much like any other big city. Most people only have time for themselves and I’ve found myself acting like this too now. The public transport system also makes me miss Scotrail!

I of course miss my family a little, I’ve only been back to Scotland once since moving but my parents and brother have been over a few times and I keep in contact via Whatsapp and a weekly phone call to my mother.  I used to shop at a supermarket that stocks Irn Bru but don’t go there anymore and haven’t found myself craving it or anything. My local corner shop sells sausage rolls but I’d love a Stephens one or a proper chippy every now and then. I usually have a choice of 4 or 5 English games at 10am on a Saturday morning but it’s not the same as watching the Pars in person. I also miss being able to buy beer pretty much any shop rather than having to go to the Provincial government owned shop. Which all close by 5pm on Sundays. On the plus side, the diversity means the choice of food (and woman) in Toronto is unbelievable. You name you can find it somewhere here. I enjoyed El Salvadoran pupusas (the food) for the first time at the weekend!

In conclusion I moved because I had grown tired of Scotland and I plan to never move back

[Melanius Mullarkey]

I hope none of you come back tbh.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

13 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

I hope none of you come back tbh.

I don't think that they're Buddhists.

[The Nightfly]

I am living in Sheffield because I found a good job here. There are many more employment choices here than around Glasgow
I previously spent 7 years in China, living in Tianjin and then Dalian. I applied for a transfer and basically performed the same role as I had in UK, but for a higher salary, better weather, great food and interesting culture (not revolving around religion, lager and unsociable behaviour).

[Duszek]

I always wanted to get out there and see the world. Travelled around the US when I was 19/20, lived in Dublin, Paris, Poland, Czech Rep and Italy. Then London for a few years getting my career together before moving to the Alps in 2011. Cracking lifestyle here.

Oh, and no offence, but you’re basically all c***s. 

[DiegoDiego]

I've lived in the USA, Slovakia, Finland, Guatemala, Denmark, Albania and now Turkey. They each have their pros and cons. I'll hopefully never live in a Nordic country again though. Do not fall for the Danish hype. Albania has been my favourite but it had its drawbacks.

I've never really lived anywhere which had much of an "ex-pat" community until now and I do like winding them up by saying "Ex-pat? Oh! You mean you're an immigrant." as they're generally smug c***s who think they're better than both those they left behind and those they now live amongst.

The older I get the more I miss Scotland and worry about one of my parents dying suddenly and having already seen them for the last time. I wouldn't be against a move back home if I could get a decent job. I think the prospect of trips to Alloa next season may be what finally drags me back.

I generally love living abroad, especially in countries with a very different culture to the UK. I've had a few good stabs at some very different languages and love trying out all the different food. My favourite part of being out of the UK is not having to put up with the shitty British media and accidentally reading the Metro of the person next to me on the bus. I'm sure the media in the other countries is just as inane, but when you're not fluent in the language it's a lot easier to filter out.

It can be tough as an immigrant. I've often had sketchy legal status and laws can change without notice. One of my friends who has been here four years will have to leave in the summer after the law changed last week. Turkey can be a bit coup/bomb-prone but Albania was far safer than being in the UK.

It's tough. Everything has an opportunity cost. I'm quite jealous of my friends back in Scotland who have well paid jobs, wives, houses and stability but I've seen a lot of stuff and can't say I've had a boring life.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Im one of the boring c***s who had the chance to emigrate to the states for a year and didnt take it.
I dont regret it now as I have a good job, a mrs and kid and my dad needs help so in a way im glad I stayed put. The trade off is that we now travel about 2 months of the year and its a great balance.
I do always think what if and think i’d really encourage my kid if he feels the same when he’s older.
One of my mates emigrated to Canada and absolutely loved it, hes never been back, found integrating really easy and met his mrs over there.

[ICTJohnboy]

It might be interesting if we could hear from some of those from south of the border who have settled in Scotland. There's plenty of them - I knew a guy from Sheffield who told me some years ago, he visited Perth and Kinross on holiday, and 2 weeks later he bought a house  in that area.

How did they vote in the 2 referendums? Would they ever consider returning to England?

[Tight minge]

Left Scotland 17 years ago. Firstly with work to Hungary where I lived for 6 years with a stint in Canada and Russia during that time. Moved to Vietnam afterwards working for myself, then onto China, Philippines x 2, Indonesia and now Singapore. Never stayed in any ex-pat community although Singapore is sterile but suitable for my kid. I have never missed or regretted leaving Scotland no matter how tough things got overseas and have no intention in returning. Have only been back to Scotland twice in 10 years, one of those for a funeral. Now married to an Indonesian and my kid was born out here, so here is where I'll likely stay. Probably Hungary and Vietnam were my favourite places to stay although I have enjoyed them all except Philippines which is a shithole in my opinion. The weather for me plays a big part, for 10 years (except the winter in my time in China) I wake up everyday to a blue sky and never below 24c and usually around the 30c mark.

[Kejan]

10 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I've lived in the USA, Slovakia, Finland, Guatemala, Denmark, Albania and now Turkey. They each have their pros and cons. I'll hopefully never live in a Nordic country again though. Do not fall for the Danish hype. Albania has been my favourite but it had its drawbacks.

I've never really lived anywhere which had much of an "ex-pat" community until now and I do like winding them up by saying "Ex-pat? Oh! You mean you're an immigrant." as they're generally smug c***s who think they're better than both those they left behind and those they now live amongst.

The older I get the more I miss Scotland and worry about one of my parents dying suddenly and having already seen them for the last time. I wouldn't be against a move back home if I could get a decent job. I think the prospect of trips to Alloa next season may be what finally drags me back.

I generally love living abroad, especially in countries with a very different culture to the UK. I've had a few good stabs at some very different languages and love trying out all the different food. My favourite part of being out of the UK is not having to put up with the shitty British media and accidentally reading the Metro of the person next to me on the bus. I'm sure the media in the other countries is just as inane, but when you're not fluent in the language it's a lot easier to filter out.

It can be tough as an immigrant. I've often had sketchy legal status and laws can change without notice. One of my friends who has been here four years will have to leave in the summer after the law changed last week. Turkey can be a bit coup/bomb-prone but Albania was far safer than being in the UK.

It's tough. Everything has an opportunity cost. I'm quite jealous of my friends back in Scotland who have well paid jobs, wives, houses and stability but I've seen a lot of stuff and can't say I've had a boring life.

Interesting. I've heard a lot of 'conflicting' stories about Danes - its basically 50/50 between they're great c***s to they are absolute xenophobic wankers.  It's an interesting point about living in a Nordic country - I have spent periods in two (Sweden, Iceland) and whilst the health care, social services are tolerant, open minded and for want of a better word very good : it can be extremely isolating trying to build up friendships with locals, and  quite boring for a conversation/general patter. It's not a language thing either, considering most people speaking better English than half of Scotland.  OK, a bit hyperbole/stereotyping, but they seem to think we are mental for going in to a bit of detail about our day, or saying two words more than a sentence needs, but maybe some people enjoy a limited, cut to the crap chat. Its one of the things I quite miss about Scotland - talking shite about nothing of any relevance. 

Never lived in Albania, but I spent 5 days in Skohdar about 5 years ago, visiting different to working etc. I had been in Croatia, Montenegro, and Serbia and all the ex-Yugos thought I was mental for going to Albania (lots of they are not like 'us' and they are almost 'Middle Eastern in attitude etc! I seen one guy shit in the street' 'don't go there') and whilst the visible differences were obvious e.g less developed infrastructure - the road from MNE to Skohdar (spelling) was a halfway house of potholes with the odd Mafia Don's palace sticking out, maybe its fixed now etc  ; the people were fucking amazing and ever since I've always wanted to see Albania do well in football or anything really, due to the crap press they seem to get. 

The things I miss about home are people are usually quite friendly. You get arseholes too, but genuinely folk are pretty sound and again if lumping all Scots together, I think we are helpful, friendly and charming. Again, though romantic Briagdoon pish probably has clorted my vision. Scotland is also beautiful, such a shame that many of the residents don't seem to see it. Even quite averagely Scottish  provinces like Angus, Fife, Clackmannashire etc - you will see some amazing landscapes.

[Honest_Man#1]

Lived in London for a year due to work, but the experience was probably different to if you were going to live there long-term as I knew I’d only be a year so didn’t bother saving money or worrying about the insane rent price etc.

It was pretty enjoyable overall. Weather was great (always thought it was a myth that the weather was much better but I can count on 1 hand the number of times I got caught in heavy rain), there’s endless stuff to do, every type of food you could want.

The main negative was my girlfriend still being in Scotland so could get a bit boring.  The wild drinking culture helped, with people going out basically every night, but you can quickly end up with no cash left when the price of a 5 pint round is £30+. The midweek nights after work in particular could get a bit boring but joining a football team helped with that. Other cons would be family and friends being up here, the inability to drive and having to rely on public transport (albeit it’s very good), the time and cost it takes to get home for visits and the general ridiculous cost of everything (I lived in a studio for £1200 a month, in Glasgow have a big 1 bed for £700 which I split with my girlfriend). Also, the growing number of terrorist/acid/knife attacks going on when I was there was a bit disconcerting. Was close to a good few and it does make you look over your shoulder a bit.

Overall, it was a good experience and if I moved back with my girlfriend I’d probably be happy enough, but the quality of life would really suffer unless I was getting a big pay rise. I can basically do whatever I want up here but would have to tighten the belt if going back. I don’t really know how most people make living sustainable there tbh, other than renting a room in a shared flat with multiple randoms (no thanks, I’m not a child/student) or living in an absolute shithole. Not really much chance of ever buying somewhere either so you’d be consigned to paying someone else’s mortgage forever.

[DiegoDiego]

43 minutes ago, Kejan said:

Interesting. I've heard a lot of 'conflicting' stories about Danes - its basically 50/50 between they're great c***s to they are absolute xenophobic wankers.  It's an interesting point about living in a Nordic country - I have spent periods in two (Sweden, Iceland) and whilst the health care, social services are tolerant, open minded and for want of a better word very good : it can be extremely isolating trying to build up friendships with locals, and  quite boring for a conversation/general patter. It's not a language thing either, considering most people speaking better English than half of Scotland.  OK, a bit hyperbole/stereotyping, but they seem to think we are mental for going in to a bit of detail about our day, or saying two words more than a sentence needs, but maybe some people enjoy a limited, cut to the crap chat. Its one of the things I quite miss about Scotland - talking shite about nothing of any relevance. 

Never lived in Albania, but I spent 5 days in Skohdar about 5 years ago, visiting different to working etc. I had been in Croatia, Montenegro, and Serbia and all the ex-Yugos thought I was mental for going to Albania (lots of they are not like 'us' and they are almost 'Middle Eastern in attitude etc! I seen one guy shit in the street' 'don't go there') and whilst the visible differences were obvious e.g less developed infrastructure - the road from MNE to Skohdar (spelling) was a halfway house of potholes with the odd Mafia Don's palace sticking out, maybe its fixed now etc  ; the people were fucking amazing and ever since I've always wanted to see Albania do well in football or anything really, due to the crap press they seem to get. 

The Danes weren't as bad as the Finns. I had a season ticket for the ice hockey and sat beside the same father and son throughout the year and didn't get a single word out of them. I finally got some chat with other fans on the bus back from an away game when everyone was properly drunk. The same folk acted like I was a ghost at the next home game.
Denmark was tough at times. I'd moved from a Scottish town of 2,500 with one supermarket and nine pubs to a Danish town of 14,000 with seven supermarkets and two pubs. There was not a single public place to watch sport on TV. Everyone just watched Denmark win handball gold at the Olympics from their living room, presumably sandwiched between documentaries about Euro '92. When I moved back to Scotland with my now ex (that's another story about Danes and their desire to hide their feelings at all times) after a few months she really couldn't understand what she got for her 42% tax in Denmark (plus tithe to the Danish Church) that she wasn't getting in Scotland. It was also far easier from a bureaucratic point of view for her to get settled in Scotland than me in Denmark.

Albania was just a wonderful place. I think you got a decent impression from your short time there. I've never felt more part of a community than I did there. At my local bar/cafe I didn't pay for anything for two weeks and it only stopped when I started leaving money on the counter. They'd always find a stream of the Thistle game to put on the big screen for me too. I couldn't walk down my local street without saying hi to about ten folk. It really had a very positive effect on my mental health having come from Denmark where I felt completely isolated from the five million folk who weren't related to my girlfriend. There is a strong cultural segregation between the sexes though. It's very rare to see a woman in a bar/cafe (though my ex never had any problems at all and got far more hassle from men in Scotland than Albania), they all socialise in the beauty salons instead. I think if I'd been single I would have found it very tough to meet women. Albania was also far more beautiful and geographically diverse than Denmark.