Regulations on Lowland League Grounds

[GordonS]

So here's a thing I'm posting in the Juniors page because so many clubs are making the move over to the seniors.

Lowland League grounds are covered by Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995. This makes it an offence to do stuff like drink on a coach hired to go to a match, or try to enter the ground with a can of juice. There are offences for the operator of coaches too, and their employees. 

They are covered by the legislation thanks to The Sports Grounds and Sporting Events (Designation) (Scotland) Order 2014. I don't think there has been a change since then, so any changes to member clubs through promotion presumably don't have an effect. I think that means that, unless there's a new Order made, you can drink on a coach to a game at Kelty next season, but Kelty fans won't be able to drink on a coach to anywhere else.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/39/part/II

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/5/contents/made

Incidentally, the way the law is made here is unusual. Every time a club changes the name of its stadium, a new Order is required. By implication, if a club has changed the name of its stadium and no new Order has been made, it is no longer covered by the Act. Hmm.

[lithgierose]

6 minutes ago, GordonS said:

So here's a thing I'm posting in the Juniors page because so many clubs are making the move over to the seniors.

Lowland League grounds are covered by Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995. This makes it an offence to do stuff like drink on a coach hired to go to a match, or try to enter the ground with a can of juice. There are offences for the operator of coaches too, and their employees. 

They are covered by the legislation thanks to The Sports Grounds and Sporting Events (Designation) (Scotland) Order 2014. I don't think there has been a change since then, so any changes to member clubs through promotion presumably don't have an effect. I think that means that, unless there's a new Order made, you can drink on a coach to a game at Kelty next season, but Kelty fans won't be able to drink on a coach to anywhere else.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/39/part/II

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/5/contents/made

Incidentally, the way the law is made here is unusual. Every time a club changes the name of its stadium, a new Order is required. By implication, if a club has changed the name of its stadium and no new Order has been made, it is no longer covered by the Act. Hmm.

Linlithgow rose fishing club 

[Ginaro]

13 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Incidentally, the way the law is made here is unusual. Every time a club changes the name of its stadium, a new Order is required. By implication, if a club has changed the name of its stadium and no new Order has been made, it is no longer covered by the Act. Hmm.

Quote

Designation of Sports Grounds and Sporting Events

2.  For the purposes of Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 the following are designated:—

(a)the sports grounds specified in Schedule 1 to this Order;

(b)the classes of sporting events specified in Part I of Schedule 2 to this Order, at any of the sports grounds specified in Schedule 1 to this Order;

(c)the classes of sporting events taking place outside Great Britain specified in Part II of Schedule 2 to this Order.

Schedule 2 mentions "Association football matches in the Scottish Lowland Football League. " so presumably that will now cover Kelty even though they are not mention in the list of sports grounds in schedule 1.

[Jambo'ness]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

So here's a thing I'm posting in the Juniors page because so many clubs are making the move over to the seniors.

Lowland League grounds are covered by Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995. This makes it an offence to do stuff like drink on a coach hired to go to a match, or try to enter the ground with a can of juice. There are offences for the operator of coaches too, and their employees. 

They are covered by the legislation thanks to The Sports Grounds and Sporting Events (Designation) (Scotland) Order 2014. I don't think there has been a change since then, so any changes to member clubs through promotion presumably don't have an effect. I think that means that, unless there's a new Order made, you can drink on a coach to a game at Kelty next season, but Kelty fans won't be able to drink on a coach to anywhere else.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/39/part/II

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/5/contents/made

Incidentally, the way the law is made here is unusual. Every time a club changes the name of its stadium, a new Order is required. By implication, if a club has changed the name of its stadium and no new Order has been made, it is no longer covered by the Act. Hmm.

Don't know what bus company your lot use but it's been a very long time since I have seen alcohol openly consumed on our supporters bus!

[GordonS]

28 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Schedule 2 mentions "Association football matches in the Scottish Lowland Football League. " so presumably that will now cover Kelty even though they are not mention in the list of sports grounds in schedule 1.

Well no, it has to be both the ground and the competition, as per 18(1)(b) of the Act; "a sporting event, or a class of sporting event, at that ground or at any of that class of ground" (my emphasis). So the Scottish Cup is designated, but not all grounds hosting Scottish Cup matches are designated, so the Act doesn't apply to those matches - which is why Linlithgow Rose could sell cans of juice and allow people to enter with them for their Scottish Cup matches.

[Jason King]

53 minutes ago, Jambo'ness said:

Don't know what bus company your lot use but it's been a very long time since I have seen alcohol openly consumed on our supporters bus!

I think its been illegal to consume alcohol on a bus for a sporting event for around 30 years.

edit - quick google and it says the legislation was brought in 1995.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

Don't know what bus company your lot use but it's been a very long time since I have seen alcohol openly consumed on our supporters bus!

I'm sure you keep them entertained though.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Pretty sure the SJFA cup final is also covered by this law. Presumably if you can’t go a coach journey from what is normally 1 pub to another (in terms of where most supporters buses pick up and drop off), then you may have an alcohol problem.

[Tutankhamen]

Players drinking on a bus going to match?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just another thought, most ‘designated sporting grounds’ have fully licensed bars and licenses are easier to get, unlike many of the junior grounds which sell alcohol illegally, we can pick holes in the pros and cons of either side of regulation.

[Jason King]

11 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Players drinking on a bus going to match?

Think that's a Fife things, you know what they are like.

[GordonS]

7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Pretty sure the SJFA cup final is also covered by this law. Presumably if you can’t go a coach journey from what is normally 1 pub to another (in terms of where most supporters buses pick up and drop off), then you may have an alcohol problem.

It's not.

As for alcohol problem, this is Scotland. We're basically one big alcohol problem.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

It's not.
As for alcohol problem, this is Scotland. We're basically one big alcohol problem.

No it actually is, although I said pretty sure I was just being casual, it categorically is defined as a ‘designated sporting event’ and is subject to those conditions. Anyone drinking on the buses from Auchinleck is a very naughty boy/girl! Perhaps we should stop having the junior cup then so that we can keep it in the spirit of the junior game and have bevvy on the buses! Down with change!!!

[Sergeant Wilson]

Is a junior game a "designated sporting event" in law?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Is a junior game a "designated sporting event" in law?

Well the act says
(2)An order under this section shall not apply to a sporting event at which all the participants take part without financial or material reward and to which all spectators are admitted free of charge; but this subsection is without prejudice to the order’s validity as respects any other sporting event.

So by the actual letter of the law it is a designated sporting event. As people are charged admission and most participants are paid.
Where it gets murky is Junior grounds dont tend to be ‘designated sporting grounds’, however I think SFA licensed grounds are as they hold Scottish cup games? Not 100% sure on the minutae of that all but it’d be pretty easy to shift the goal posts to include junior matches in the event of another ayrshire 500 man brawl.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

No it actually is, although I said pretty sure I was just being casual, it categorically is defined as a ‘designated sporting event’ and is subject to those conditions. Anyone drinking on the buses from Auchinleck is a very naughty boy/girl! Perhaps we should stop having the junior cup then so that we can keep it in the spirit of the junior game and have bevvy on the buses! Down with change!!!

Can you show me where in the legislation it "categorically" says the Scottish Junior Cup Final is a designated sporting event for the purposes of Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995? Because I've read every relevant piece of secondary legislation and I've never seen it.

The 2014 Order was the last consolidating SSI, revoking all the previous Orders; Schedule 2 doesn't list the Junior Cup: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/5/schedule/2/made 

Bear in mind that it has to be a designated event AT a designated ground.

41 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Is a junior game a "designated sporting event" in law?

No.

33 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Well the act says
(2)An order under this section shall not apply to a sporting event at which all the participants take part without financial or material reward and to which all spectators are admitted free of charge; but this subsection is without prejudice to the order’s validity as respects any other sporting event.

So by the actual letter of the law it is a designated sporting event. As people are charged admission and most participants are paid.
Where it gets murky is Junior grounds dont tend to be ‘designated sporting grounds’, however I think SFA licensed grounds are as they hold Scottish cup games? Not 100% sure on the minutae of that all but it’d be pretty easy to shift the goal posts to include junior matches in the event of another ayrshire 500 man brawl.

Yeah, I'm afraid you're reading that out of context. What that definitely doesn't mean is that any paid-for event at a designated ground is automatically a designated event; the event itself also has to be designated - see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/5/schedule/2/made where these are listed. That's why they could sell alcohol at the Scotland v Georgia rugby match at Rugby Park.

Tbh I am 100% sure on the minutiae, this is home territory for me. 

[Jason King]

For someone who has been exceptionally vocal at wanting his club to remain in the non-leagues you do appear to have a massive hard-on for the senior game.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Yeah, I'm afraid you're reading that out of context. What that definitely doesn't mean is that any paid-for event at a designated ground is automatically a designated event; the event itself also has to be designated - see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/5/schedule/2/made where these are listed. That's why they could sell alcohol at the Scotland v Georgia rugby match at Rugby Park.
Tbh I am 100% sure on the minutiae, this is home territory for me. 

Id argue that as the SFA is the governing body for football in Scotland and the SJFA is a constituent part of the SFA then it should apply, but I have read schedule 2 where it does specify the spfl leagues etc. I don’t think its as clear cut as you suggest.

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Id argue that as the SFA is the governing body for football in Scotland and the SJFA is a constituent part of the SFA then it should apply, but I have read schedule 2 where it does specify the spfl leagues etc. I don’t think its as clear cut as you suggest.

The SJFA isn't a constituent part of the SFA, it's an affiliated body and recognised by the SFA as the governing body for the Junior grade. I think the legislation is very clear but maybe I'm just used to reading legislation.

[naetshirt]

I'm sure you keep them entertained though.

Nice image have you seen his wife?