Minimum Alcohol Pricing

[scottsdad]

The policy comes in to effect today. And this is just the beginning - Prohibition for the Poor.

Watching BBC Reporting Scotland last night was the most biased reporting I think I have ever seen. They had an A&E doctor, an activist who campaigned for it, a recovering alcoholic all saying that this is needed, and more ominously that this is just the first step. 

The campaigners want the 50p per unit price upped to 70p per unit. And they want to stop the "over-provision of alcohol in the most badly affected areas" - in other words, in neighbourhoods where folk are poor, they'll try to get rid of off-licenses. 

I predict a rise in shoplifting this week - Frosty Jack cider has trebled in price overnight. 

Now, I get all the arguments and the statistics. Scotland has a drinking culture that is bad for health - but where does the Scottish government get off deciding that the great unwashed cannot be trusted with alcohol, and so have decided to do the one thing the poor cannot fight back against - price them out of it? I really dislike the social engineering subtext of wll the talk regarding this policy.

[Bairnardo]

The government have done the same with smoking tbf. Where do you stand on that?

[54_and_counting]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

The government have done the same with smoking tbf. Where do you stand on that?

Smoking is a different issue, you either smoke or you dont, there isnt really an inbetween, a lot of occasional drinkers are now shafted because the government wont try and get to the root cause of alcoholism 

Do they honestly think wee joe the jakey will stop buying booze now its went up in price, or is there more of a chance he'll not put food in his house or leccy in his meter

Wait and see the applications to use local food banks now

[scottsdad]

4 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Smoking is a different issue, you either smoke or you dont, there isnt really an inbetween, a lot of occasional drinkers are now shafted because the government wont try and get to the root cause of alcoholism 

Do they honestly think wee joe the jakey will stop buying booze now its went up in price, or is there more of a chance he'll not put food in his house or leccy in his meter

Wait and see the applications to use local food banks now

I agree with this. My neighbour works a night shift job 5 days a week for really crap money. His treat (as he calls it) is on his 2 nights off he drinks 4 cans of cider. He buys the Taurus stuff from Aldi. Yesterday 8 cans of that cost him £4 - today it'll cost £10. He is by no means an alcoholic, or a criminal - just an occasional drinker on a low wage who cannot now really be an occasional drinker. 

[Chinatoon Bairn]

A big farewell to my trusty steed Frosty Jacks today, nights will never be the same without you. GBNF x

 

[Busta Nut]

has the usual stuff price been effected?

[scottsdad]

Quote

A FIFE charity has claimed that the controversial minimum unit pricing for alcohol, which comes into force today, has "glaring loopholes".

New legislation brought into force by the Scottish Government sets a minimum 50 pence per unit price to tackle the damage caused by cheap, high strength booze.

However, Jim Bett, service manager at Fife Alcohol Support Service (FASS), believes there are ways the public can "sidestep" the new guidelines.

He said: "The controversial new law which states that from May 1 no alcohol can be sold in Scottish shops or bars for less than 50p per unit has got several glaring loopholes which have become evident.

"It's a worrying fact but detailed guidance just published by the Scottish Government has revealed that some people will be able to sidestep the new law by using online or telephone sales, or even 'click and collect' services and these will be exempt from the new tax, provided the alcohol is despatched from outside Scotland.

"The supermarket 'meal deals' will also sidestep the new law as long as the total price, including food, exceeds the minimum unit price, and also loyalty reward vouchers can be used to cut the cost of alcohol at the point of sale."

Legislation was approved in Holyrood in 2012, but its introduction was delayed after a legal dispute.

The Scotch Whisky Association claimed the move was a restriction on trade, but the UK Supreme Court ruled in favour of the Scottish Parliament and concluded that it did not breach EU law.

FASS operates throughout Fife and offers confidential counselling services which aims to assist those struggling with the harmful effects of alcohol.

Jim concluded that while there were loopholes in the pricing, he was supportive of the decision.

He said: "This new law should save hundreds of lives and lead to thousands fewer alcohol-related hospital admissions in Scotland and this is to be closely monitored by FASS and other agencies over the next few years."

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said: “I am extremely proud that the eyes of the world will once again be on Scotland with the introduction of this legislation.

“Our action is bold and it is brave, and shows once again that we are leading the way in introducing innovative solutions to public health challenges.

“It’s no secret that Scotland has a troubled relationship with alcohol. There are, on average, 22 alcohol-specific deaths every week in Scotland, and 697 hospital admissions and behind every one of these statistics is a person, a family, and a community badly affected by alcohol misuse.

“Given the clear and proven link between consumption and harm, minimum unit pricing is the most effective and efficient way to tackle the cheap, high strength alcohol that causes so much damage to so many families.”

Thanks for the tip, Jim.

[scottsdad]

1 minute ago, Busta Nut said:

has the usual stuff price been effected?

Depends what you mean by the usual stuff. 

This web page is a good guide: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43891989

[Busta Nut]

5 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Depends what you mean by the usual stuff. 

This web page is a good guide: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43891989

Jack D & such. I am gonna stop drinking lager completely I think.

[Baxter Parp]

14 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I agree with this. My neighbour works a night shift job 5 days a week for really crap money. His treat (as he calls it) is on his 2 nights off he drinks 4 cans of cider. He buys the Taurus stuff from Aldi. Yesterday 8 cans of that cost him £4 - today it'll cost £10. He is by no means an alcoholic, or a criminal - just an occasional drinker on a low wage who cannot now really be an occasional drinker. 

He can buy 4 cans of lager for £4.40.

[Baxter Parp]

21 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Smoking is a different issue, you either smoke or you dont, there isnt really an inbetween,

Not so, there's a vast difference between a 50-a day habit and the occasional fag now and then.

[scottsdad]

11 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

He can buy 4 cans of lager for £4.40.

or 8 for £8.80 - still more than twice what he pays now.

[welshbairn]

24 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

has the usual stuff price been effected?

Morrison's own brand whisky will jump from £15 to £20 a litre.

[Baxter Parp]

9 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

or 8 for £8.80 - still more than twice what he pays now.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

[ICTChris]

 

29 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Not so, there's a vast difference between a 50-a day habit and the occasional fag now and then.

Not every type of health provision or tax can be compared to smoking.

For example, you say that there's a difference between smoking 50 a day on having the occasional fag now that then.   Some studies have shown that smoking 1-4 cigarettes per day increase your chances of heart disease and cancer nearly as much as smoking a whole packet a day.  That most definitely isn't the case for drinking - moderate drinkers actually have better health outcomes than non-drinkers.

Smoking tobacco is an absolute killer, there's really not a safe level to smoke at but there is a safe level to drink alcohol, eat sugar, eat fatty foods etc at.  Comparing taxes designed to promote health to tobacco taxes is erroneous.

Edited May 1, 2018 by ICTChris

[The Moonster]

I can still get cans of Tennents for less than £1 a can and gin is only rising a couple of quid. I see no problem here. 

I'm struggling to let my heart bleed for folk who now need to pay a few quid extra for some awful cider tbh. 

[Baxter Parp]

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

 Some studies have shown that smoking 1-4 cigarettes per day increase your chances of heart disease and cancer nearly as much as smoking a whole packet a day. 

What studies are these?

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

  That most definitely isn't the case for drinking - moderate drinkers actually have better health outcomes than non-drinkers.

Moderate drinkers will be largely unaffected.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Baxter Parp

[MEADOWXI]

Almost inevitably any measure like this will become a Tax of Prohibition.

And calls to raise the minimum price 'for the good of the Nations health' will soon be forthcoming.

2 Questions,

1.   Have the brands that are already over the minimum prices rasing their prices to keep the gap between Own Brand/Cheap Brands and Premium Brands or labels.

2.  Where is all the extra cash going, is it all going straight into the Govt funds, which will only speed up to the transition of tax for Govet spending.

[scottsdad]

Moderate drinkers - especially those on tight incomes - will be massively affected. Moderate drinkers, and alcoholics, who have money will not be affected so much. 

[Glenconner]

Probably kill off the Juniors.