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45 minutes ago, jupe1407 said:
1 hour ago, throbber said:
The moral dilemma is whether or not the woman has the right to kill the unborn baby inside her or not. It’s not just about the woman’s body when there is a child involved in the situation.

There is no child. It is a collection of cells until born, at which point it becomes a legal person. It's up to the woman whether or not she wishes to spend a few months in pain, discomfort and in more severe cases, endangering her life, not her ex.

If it's not a legal person until it's  born, why isn't abortion at 37 weeks allowed?

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1 hour ago, throbber said:

 


The moral dilemma is whether or not the woman has the right to kill the unborn baby inside her or not. It’s not just about the woman’s body when there is a child involved in the situation.

 

It is only about the woman. It is her body and her right to abort.

I am very pro-abortion.

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4 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said:

It is only about the woman. It is her body and her right to abort.

I am very pro-abortion.

Just to be clear, as am I.

I realise there are posters who won't be able to separate my devil's advocate situation from my own personal views, so I'll just get that out there.

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Really don't see what business men and/or the state have telling women what they should/shouldn't be doing with their bodies. It can't be an easy decision for any woman to decide to abort and any man wanting to force her to give birth needs to have a word with himself. 

Correct, not our(man) decision. Up to that particular woman, sure consultation should be involved but its her final decision. Any person who takes the right of the owner can go f**k themselves.
I've been in this situation twice in my life...her chose was 100% no if or buts
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It is only about the woman. It is her body and her right to abort.
I am very pro-abortion.


This. White middle class men get to decide pretty much everything these days - and we’ve fucked it up royally in many cases. Probably for the best that we shut up and allow women to deal with that. I don’t have to have an opinion on something which doesn’t effect me.

Kind of like black folk in Birmingham, Alabama tipping over confederate statues. If that’s what they choose to do, I don’t have to feel one way or the other about it, and even if I do, I don’t need to express it.
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Just to be clear, as am I.
I realise there are posters who won't be able to separate my devil's advocate situation from my own personal views, so I'll just get that out there.


This is Pie and Bovril, mate. No room for nuanced discussion here. Either write an open letter or start a change.org petition.
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19 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

 

 


This. White middle class men get to decide pretty much everything these days - and we’ve fucked it up royally in many cases. Probably for the best that we shut up and allow women to deal with that. I don’t have to have an opinion on something which doesn’t effect me.

Kind of like black folk in Birmingham, Alabama tipping over confederate statues. If that’s what they choose to do, I don’t have to feel one way or the other about it, and even if I do, I don’t need to express it.

 

So you're completely abdicating any kind of social responsibility because of previous generations of decision makers to which you had zero input?  What a depressing outlook.

Edited by Estragon
Malapropism
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27 minutes ago, Estragon said:

So you're completely advocating any kind of social responsibility because of previous generations of decision makers to which you had zero input?  What a depressing outlook.

Social responsibility, in this particular case, is best served by people like me taking a back seat and allowing the marginalised voices (which in fact are directly affected) to make the decisions.  By nature of skin colour and sex, my view is already on an artificial pedestal.  

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It should be legal and that's really the only view I have on the matter. 

Of course it causes dilemmas - woman wants to keep baby, man thinks she should have an abortion, or indeed vice versa, but that's all preferable to an outright ban. All such issues are preferable to an unwanted child being brought into the world, or a woman's life being endangered by being forced to continue a pregnancy.

Edited by Michael W
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Also, can I echo the comments by earlier posters that there needs to be an option on the poll for people who have become parents but their opinion hasn't changed.

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13 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

Social responsibility, in this particular case, is best served by people like me taking a back seat and allowing the marginalised voices (which in fact are directly affected) to make the decisions.  By nature of skin colour and sex, my view is already on an artificial pedestal.  

But if you extract that attitude to it's logical conclusion, it's an extremely dangerous attitude to adopt.  I have an immediate aversion to this standpoint in this particular scenario, as it very overtly chimes in to the old "contraception is a woman's business" mindset.

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I'm not a fan of abortion but I wouldn't advise a woman one way or the other as they're the ones left to deal with the mental fallout from the decision they make.

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There is no child. It is a collection of cells until born, at which point it becomes a legal person. It's up to the woman whether or not she wishes to spend a few months in pain, discomfort and in more severe cases, endangering her life, not her ex.

 

At 12 weeks scans the babies head (including the brain) and body are clearly visibility as well as the heartbeat. By 20 weeks all internal organs are visible, you can count the toes and fingers and can tell if it’s a boy a girl. To me and to a lot of people that is more than a “collection of cells” as you have put it. That’s where the problem lies in the debate.

 

 

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