cmontheloknow Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Just a bit of basic maths - clubs in the top flight currently have a minimum of 22+4+1+1+1 matches each season, or 29. The new league will see that minimum rise to 37 without the loss of cups. Of course, hardly anyone at the top is so bad as to lose every knockout tie so the minimum doesn't mean much other than the increase of 8 games is needed to be offset by a cup cull. The East got it right - one biggie and one inter-region plus the Scottish - 33 minimum. The Sectional is a waste of space - like the derbies? Play an annual pre-season friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Unfortunately the majority of clubs don't seem to have thought this through and have indicated they want to hang on to a revamped Sectional Cup which will use up far too many valuable matchdays early in the season. Insane IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, archieb said: Unfortunately the majority of clubs don't seem to have thought this through and have indicated they want to hang on to a revamped Sectional Cup which will use up far too many valuable matchdays early in the season. Insane IMO! It's nuts. Fixtures are hard enough to schedule as it is (and as we have seen!), yet all clubs face a substantial number of additional matches next season as it stands, in the top division more than a 30% increase from present. Just some numbers for the would-be fixture secretary... West Super Premier currently play 132 games. WR Premiership will play 240. West Super First currently play 196 games. WR Championship will play 240. Ayrshire (100), Central 1 (210) and Central 2 (132) currently play a total of 442 games. L1 and L2 will play around 500 matches. In total, there will be approximately 1000 league games in the West Region next season. Currently the number played is 770. So the fixture secretary needs to squeeze in those extra 200 or so games. The Sectionals currently hoover up 154 fixtures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Some of your numbers are way off Jamie and the prospect is actually nothing like as bad as it might seem (thanks partly to Dunipace whose departure will have made a saving of 34 fixtures) This season WSP and C2 do indeed play 132 fixtures and C1 210, but in WS1 it's 182 and Ayrshire 110 - Plus 8 play-offs totals 766 League games Next season it'll be 240+240+240+210 =930, an increase of 164 Dropping the end-of-season League Cups cuts out 62 fixtures and the loss of Dunipace reduces the WoSC from 63 to 62 games. The planned streamlining of the Sectionals should move us from 167 (Central) + 127 (Ayrshire) = 294 games to 204 (all-in West). The reduction to 4 divisions also reduces the Evening Times Cup by one preliminary tie. So, with no other changes, there will be 154 fewer cup ties. So the total number of additional fixtures (ignoring Junior Cup games) next season for the new Fixture Secretary to schedule should be precisely TEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 My concern regarding the plan to revamp the Sectional Cups into one isn't about total number of fixtures but the loss of matchdays early in the season, in particular for the majority of clubs who fail to qualify for the knockout stages (47 of 63 clubs will be idle while the first knockout round is played, 55 on Quarter-Final day and 59 on Semi-Final day) - what a waste of what would probably be ideal evenings to attract supporters to early-season league matches! IF a series of provisional League fixtures IS scheduled for those dates (revised as the knockout participants become known) - which is NOT part of any proposal as far as I am aware - then I would withdraw my objection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, archieb said: Some of your numbers are way off Jamie and the prospect is actually nothing like as bad as it might seem (thanks partly to Dunipace whose departure will have made a saving of 34 fixtures) This season WSP and C2 do indeed play 132 fixtures and C1 210, but in WS1 it's 182 and Ayrshire 110 - Plus 8 play-offs totals 766 League games Next season it'll be 240+240+240+210 =930, an increase of 164 Dropping the end-of-season League Cups cuts out 62 fixtures and the loss of Dunipace reduces the WoSC from 63 to 62 games. The planned streamlining of the Sectionals should move us from 167 (Central) + 127 (Ayrshire) = 294 games to 204 (all-in West). The reduction to 4 divisions also reduces the Evening Times Cup by one preliminary tie. So, with no other changes, there will be 154 fewer cup ties. So the total number of additional fixtures (ignoring Junior Cup games) next season for the new Fixture Secretary to schedule should be precisely TEN! Me and numbers don't really go hand in hand - on WS1 I for some reason opted for a 28 match programme this year. But to be fair, I said 770 league games this year and nearly 1000 for next season 766 and 930 is not far off. The loss of the knockout cup ties will make a difference of course, but we struggle to get matches played as it is. League games affect every team, not just those successful in cups. It will be harder (IMO) to fit the extra league games in than the cups. The usual suspects will, as usual, have pitch issues and this could cause a fixture pile-up. Could be wrong but we'll see this time next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said: Me and numbers don't really go hand in hand - on WS1 I for some reason opted for a 28 match programme this year. But to be fair, I said 770 league games this year and nearly 1000 for next season 766 and 930 is not far off. The loss of the knockout cup ties will make a difference of course, but we struggle to get matches played as it is. League games affect every team, not just those successful in cups. It will be harder (IMO) to fit the extra league games in than the cups. Could be wrong but we'll see this time next year! I beg to differ. The main difference is that you KNOW exactly who is involved in all League games still to be played, allowing a fair degree of advance planning, whereas participants in cup ties are unknown until the previous rounds are played & this gets even worse when rounds get out of sync as they have in all 3 competitions still under way in the West! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 My concern regarding the plan to revamp the Sectional Cups into one isn't about total number of fixtures but the loss of matchdays early in the season, in particular for the majority of clubs who fail to qualify for the knockout stages (47 of 63 clubs will be idle while the first knockout round is played, 55 on Quarter-Final day and 59 on Semi-Final day) - what a waste of what would probably be ideal evenings to attract supporters to early-season league matches! IF a series of provisional League fixtures IS scheduled for those dates (revised as the knockout participants become known) - which is NOT part of any proposal as far as I am aware - then I would withdraw my objection. I like the idea of bottom 2 divisions playing in sectional I did a full fixture list using that structure and found it easy to get in all the fixtures but a bad winter will always lead to the usual end of season disaster but I made a few tweaks and found it possible you know I disagreed with you strongly on a full fixture list but I’ve been converted to it but it needs new eyes looking at it completely different to what we have our current general secretary cannot be allowed to be fixture secretary if it is passed by agm if I can be converted to it then I’m sure more people can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 8 hours ago, archieb said: I beg to differ. The main difference is that you KNOW exactly who is involved in all League games still to be played, allowing a fair degree of advance planning, whereas participants in cup ties are unknown until the previous rounds are played & this gets even worse when rounds get out of sync as they have in all 3 competitions still under way in the West! Again we'll see. Starting off with a minimum of 36 games (30 league, 4 SLC?, 1 Junior Cup, 1 West) for all IMO is asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said: Again we'll see. Starting off with a minimum of 36 games (30 league, 4 SLC?, 1 Junior Cup, 1 West) for all IMO is asking for trouble. 35 if the SLC is revamped as proposed into 16 groups of 4 (or without Dunipace, presumably 15 of 4 and one of 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 35 if the SLC is revamped as proposed into 16 groups of 4 (or without Dunipace, presumably 15 of 4 and one of 3). No team is gonna lose all cup ties get rid of districts or sectional I still think using the sectional for bottom 2 leagues is way forward keeping all the cups is like turkeys voting for Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 22 hours ago, nicotina said: complete madness imo Wishaw playing meaningless league game on sat should be cup tie. we will also be waiting at least another week also to play hurlford in the west qf due to junior cup final also if we win tomorrow against Cambuslang Far from being a 'meaningless league game' this is probably the game of the day for this division's punters as a win for the home side will keep their play-off hopes alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstarbenhar Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, tommyboy said: Far from being a 'meaningless league game' this is probably the game of the day for this division's punters as a win for the home side will keep their play-off hopes alive. Big game tonight for both Wishaw and Forth - bring the midge repellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, redstarbenhar said: Big game tonight for both Wishaw and Forth - bring the midge repellent. Yup,they breed the wee scamps tough up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 22 hours ago, archieb said: 35 if the SLC is revamped as proposed into 16 groups of 4 (or without Dunipace, presumably 15 of 4 and one of 3). Whatever happens with the SLC, the issue still remains that the East Region play less games overall - 30 league games max, 3 KO cups and still have fixture congestion running into June. This was an opportunity to lose a significant lump of superfluous games, not effectively maintain the status quo. You could at least have argued that the CLC/AWPC had some meaning as they were winner takes all - a lot of these extra league games will still end up being played Apr/May/Jun and will not mean a whole lot. The Sectional has been a bore of a competition with most clubs out before a ball was kicked - in Lok's section it was a rarity to see a qualifier other than us or Lie. Other sections equally predictable, Ayrshire especially. The new format might give it some freshness for while I suppose but my personal preference is for mid season knockouts over that. The league will be a long slog without them! Conversely, I suppose having less KO cups in the last 1/3 of the season will make scheduling of league games easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokforever Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokforever Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNauld Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 We weren’t great in the first half but we stepped it up a gear in the second and ran out comfortable 3-0 winners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokforever Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc57 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 On 24/05/2018 at 08:37, TheNauld said: We weren’t great in the first half but we stepped it up a gear in the second and ran out comfortable 3-0 winners So, no need to play the goalie coach in this match? Well done. Good luck in the semis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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