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Absolute shocker


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14 hours ago, welshbairn said:

You'd think the Russians would be able to rubbish this fairly quickly if it isn't true.

https://news.sky.com/story/moscow-to-salisbury-novichok-attack-suspects-movements-revealed-11490827

The timeline seems to have changed though.

Previously the Skripals were supposed to have been poisoned on their way out of the house in the morning but now they Russians weren't in Salisbury until midday?

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The more we learn about this case, the less likely it looks like a Russian state operation.  Two men with Russian names, flying direct from Moscow to London & back, using public transport guaranteed to be tracked by CCTV, using a 'Russian' poison, traces of which they leave everywhere. It's much more likely to be either someone wanting this to look like a Russian state hit, or some kind of amateur thug operation.

I'm also not sure how they can say the men travelled under false names, yet they know they're Russian and from the GRU.

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2 hours ago, Zetterlund said:

The more we learn about this case, the less likely it looks like a Russian state operation.  Two men with Russian names, flying direct from Moscow to London & back, using public transport guaranteed to be tracked by CCTV, using a 'Russian' poison, traces of which they leave everywhere. It's much more likely to be either someone wanting this to look like a Russian state hit, or some kind of amateur thug operation.

I'm also not sure how they can say the men travelled under false names, yet they know they're Russian and from the GRU.

It smacks of anti-Semitism so I think it is obvious who is really to blame.

 

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4 hours ago, Zetterlund said:

 

I'm also not sure how they can say the men travelled under false names, yet they know they're Russian and from the GRU.

Five Eyes might have a database of GRU officers. If they are known GRU officers they shouldn't have got tourist visas.

The whole putting poison on the door handle at sunday lunch time and using public transport seems odd to me. I'm finding it basically impossible to believe that two dodgy looking foreigners walked into a middle class English housing estate at midday on a Sunday without some busybody giving them a severe eyeballing.

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The more we learn about this case, the less likely it looks like a Russian state operation.  Two men with Russian names, flying direct from Moscow to London & back, using public transport guaranteed to be tracked by CCTV, using a 'Russian' poison, traces of which they leave everywhere. It's much more likely to be either someone wanting this to look like a Russian state hit, or some kind of amateur thug operation.
I'm also not sure how they can say the men travelled under false names, yet they know they're Russian and from the GRU.
They could have photographs of them poisoning them and you'd still say it wasn't the Russians.
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1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:
8 hours ago, Zetterlund said:
The more we learn about this case, the less likely it looks like a Russian state operation.  Two men with Russian names, flying direct from Moscow to London & back, using public transport guaranteed to be tracked by CCTV, using a 'Russian' poison, traces of which they leave everywhere. It's much more likely to be either someone wanting this to look like a Russian state hit, or some kind of amateur thug operation.
I'm also not sure how they can say the men travelled under false names, yet they know they're Russian and from the GRU.

They could have photographs of them poisoning them and you'd still say it wasn't the Russians.

The only thing I find strange is that almost right away an accusation was levelled yet it has taken months for this information to be released.

It looks pretty positive to me but I think more is known and has been for some time.

 

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1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

The only thing I find strange is that almost right away an accusation was levelled yet it has taken months for this information to be released.

It looks pretty positive to me but I think more is known and has been for some time.

 

Imagine the man hours of collecting and sifting through CCTV footage.

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3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

They could have photographs of them poisoning them and you'd still say it wasn't the Russians.

I'm not saying it wasn't Russians who did it, just that it's still extremely unlikely that it was 'The Russians', ie the Russian state. It's not completely out of the question of course, but if so it was an amateurish effort which seemed to go out of its way to ensure the Kremlin was fingered for it.

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Imagine the man hours of collecting and sifting through CCTV footage.

Theresa May was directly blaming Moscow after a few days, but this recent evidence wasn't found until a couple of months later. They essentially started the investigation with a verdict and have spent the time since trying to prove it. 

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Just now, Zetterlund said:

I'm not saying it wasn't Russians who did it, just that it's still extremely unlikely that it was 'The Russians', ie the Russian state. It's not completely out of the question of course, but if so it was an amateurish effort which seemed to go out of its way to ensure the Kremlin was fingered for it.

Theresa May was directly blaming Moscow after a few days, but this recent evidence wasn't found until a couple of months later. They essentially started the investigation with a verdict and have spent the time since trying to prove it. 

The indications were that they had other intelligence they couldn't talk about without revealing sources. The way the Russians have continually broadcast new contradictory theories about what happened, same as the Malaysian Airliner shot down over the Ukraine, and the polonium poisoning, would suggest they're not being entirely honest.

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1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

The indications were that they had other intelligence they couldn't talk about without revealing sources. The way the Russians have continually broadcast new contradictory theories about what happened, same as the Malaysian Airliner shot down over the Ukraine, and the polonium poisoning, would suggest they're not being entirely honest.

Newspapers and news outlets will speculate when nobody knows what actually happened. And much of it is clickbait. UK papers have been exactly the same with the story changing every few days initially as the claims were shown to be nonsense - novichok applied to the car AC system, brought over in Yulia's suitcase etc before settling on the door handle theory (which was always dubious and looks to be on shaky ground with the latest timeline).

There's also much more to this story than what the mainstream will report on which makes the whole thing quite suspicious.

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The only thing I find strange is that almost right away an accusation was levelled yet it has taken months for this information to be released.
It looks pretty positive to me but I think more is known and has been for some time.
 
You may be right - the intelligence services may have known far more about this than has come to light - the usual political considerations and/or a cover up for a f**k up going on?
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On 07/09/2018 at 20:33, Zetterlund said:

I'm not saying it wasn't Russians who did it, just that it's still extremely unlikely that it was 'The Russians', ie the Russian state. It's not completely out of the question of course, but if so it was an amateurish effort which seemed to go out of its way to ensure the Kremlin was fingered for it.

It could very well be the case that the GRU actively want it to be obvious that it was them as a method of warning traitors.

This matches up well with what we know about Putin's personality and with statements frequently made on Russian state television.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/world/europe/sergei-skripal-russian-spy-poisoning.html#click=https://t.co/oluu9P27D6

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4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Skripal has been linked to the Steele dossier and it's confirmed he was interviewed by the BBC in 2017.

So possibly not as retired as has been claimed.

Former intelligence people get consulted on their areas of expertise all the time after they retire. That's why former ranking intelligence people in the US often keep their security clearance.

Steele himself was retired remember.

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My problem here is the outlandish and very expensive method used, which is also 100% going to result in the perpetrators being caught. This being the case, why are the Russians bothering to deny it, if they wanted it publicly known that it was them behind it ?

On the other hand, if they wanted to knock off the Skripals secretly, then surely they could have paid a local junkie to stab him or they could have staged an "accident" or even a "suicide" or even paid a freelance professional, but no, they have instead gone for something straight out of an Agatha Christie novel.

I'm sorry, it all fails to add up for me.............

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20 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

My problem here is the outlandish and very expensive method used, which is also 100% going to result in the perpetrators being caught. This being the case, why are the Russians bothering to deny it, if they wanted it publicly known that it was them behind it ?

On the other hand, if they wanted to knock off the Skripals secretly, then surely they could have paid a local junkie to stab him or they could have staged an "accident" or even a "suicide" or even paid a freelance professional, but no, they have instead gone for something straight out of an Agatha Christie novel.

I'm sorry, it all fails to add up for me.............

Same as the Litvinenko murder. A clear statement and public revenge. Putin wants everyone to know what happened while publicly denying it till the end. No Russian troops in Crimea or Eastern Ukraine and when they're caught they're just on holiday. They keep denying it because it would be awkward to admit to breaking every domestic and international law under the sun.

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