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Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...

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36 minutes ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Even if, inevitably, a EOS 2  is set up and running teams will settle to their respective appropriate level. This pyramid, over time, will improve year on year and clubs will rise and fall with it. If big junior clubs end up having to start life in an EOS 2, then they are likely to go on quite a winning run which, I think, can only be good for the club. Fans love a winning team. As a kelty fan said on one of these threads their crowds are up 20 or 30 per cent. 

This might be a case of the early bird catches the worm, and if so kelty and the like have done themselves a big favour.

They have, though not as big a favour as BSC, Cumbernauld and EK have done for themselves. A fairly low level junior team could have been established in tier 5 by now if they'd moved two or three years ago.

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51 minutes ago, bendan said:

Is this based on actual evidence? Seems highly unlikely to me.

There's have been a  fair few clubs who have made enquiries with the EoSFL.  Whether all these enquiries turn into solid applications will be clearer in a couple of weeks time but I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 3 or 4 Junior clubs join the EoSFL for next season.

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2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

There's have been a  fair few clubs who have made enquiries with the EoSFL.  Whether all these enquiries turn into solid applications will be clearer in a couple of weeks time but I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 3 or 4 Junior clubs join the EoSFL for next season.

The whole situation is a sad indictment of Scottish Football when change is being led by teams whilst the SJFA and SFA do absolutely nothing.  Instead of improving football there is a real danger of making things worse.

What criteria do the EoS set on joining their set-up?  Is there any quality check in place to ensure that teams joining meet any set standards?  Or is it just a free for all to submit an application just because you can.  From the 3 or 4 teams that may join the EoS how many are competitive established clubs moving for the challenge and how many are moving because there are more financial incentives available?

 

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1 hour ago, bendan said:

Is this based on actual evidence? Seems highly unlikely to me.

In fairness the 9 includes Bo'ness, and they might not move next season right enough.

However if they do it becomes 10  because Linlithgow will follow.

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From the 3 or 4 teams that may join the EoS how many are competitive established clubs moving for the challenge and how many are moving because there are more financial incentives available?
 


I'm not sure what the problem is with teams moving due to 'financial incentives'. Let's be honest, what you mean here is league sponsorship revenue, solidarity payments and prizemoney.

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17 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

 


I'm not sure what the problem is with teams moving due to 'financial incentives'. Let's be honest, what you mean here is league sponsorship revenue, solidarity payments and prizemoney.

 

...and Auld Heid's club is the only one in the east region juniors to benefit.

A competitive advantage over everybody else, every year. 

Edited by Che Dail

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38 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

The whole situation is a sad indictment of Scottish Football when change is being led by teams whilst the SJFA and SFA do absolutely nothing.  Instead of improving football there is a real danger of making things worse.

What criteria do the EoS set on joining their set-up?  Is there any quality check in place to ensure that teams joining meet any set standards?  Or is it just a free for all to submit an application just because you can.  From the 3 or 4 teams that may join the EoS how many are competitive established clubs moving for the challenge and how many are moving because there are more financial incentives available?

 

Aye we all know the whole thing was a shambles from the very start with all sides culpable, but we are where we are and it’s a case of moving on and making the best of what’s available.

Clubs will move for their own reasons which will vary.

More finance available within the Pyramid - your club should be well aware of that, hence why they pursued a Licence, opportunity to progress to the LL and SPFL, more professionally run eg. fixture lists, an U20 league and access to SFA Youth Cup, clubs sick to death of the SJFA with little to lose etc.

The application form for the EoS is on their website I believe, have a look at it.  I think they want all new applicants to make a commitment to work towards gaining a Licence, so right there they seek to drive up standards from the Junior set-up.

Edited by Burnie_man

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35 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

...and Auld Heid's club is the only one in the east region juniors to benefit.

A competitive advantage over everybody else, every year. 

Linlithgow only used a structure which was already in place as we met the set criteria - most teams would happily use any perceived competitive edge .  In our defence any financial gain has been reinvested in the ground not on inflated wages and transfer fees.

My point remains neither SJFA or SFA are actively taking a leading role - which they should be. 

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20 hours ago, kefc said:

Home and our Away crowds are definitely up, season tickets are up, all by around 20-30%. You can tell with our highlights, money on the gate and the house full signs on our 50 capacity hospitality every game.

A run of the mill league game against Ormiston, Eyemouth etc. had more than a game against Broxburn, Carnoustie etc no disrespect to they clubs mentioned as I’m highlighting our home supporters only.

Obviously we had 2 x 1000 plus crowds last season for 2 Scottish Junior Cup ties but we can possibly replace those by getting runs in the Senior Scottish Cup and if we ever get to the LL, Irn Bru Cup If Top 4 and Betfred Cup for the LL winner, bigger tournaments with more exposure, bigger supported opposition and better rewards for success.

We didn’t expect it tbh but we marketed it well, caught the communities imagination, gave them fixture lists, removed the glass ceiling, they see the big picture, the vision and have really got behind us which we are delighted about.

We expect if we were ever to reach the Lowland League then we have no doubt it will grow again.

But but but, the Talbot fans keep telling us it's a shite league and teams will lose money by joining it. Surely this can't be true?!

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13 hours ago, Van magic said:


Boards round the park are from yester year are just stadium window dressing? Pretty sure some local business would love to hear your lies!
like the local glazer?
Local roofing company?
Local painter and decorator?
Local estate agents?
Local plumber?

Won’t name them publicly but if you manage to lay off the drams then have the big rants on here and Facebook you could go ask them ?mayb they are on here you never know!
And btw your allowed your opinion on this 100% me personally I’m on the fence at the moment but to come out with lies like that is wrong regardless opinions on the future of our great club

Suggest you do that.....and I will be interested in their responses to your enquiry....I can assure you that I am not lying.....continuing sponsorship for season 2018/19..was refused from long time sponsors of the club.........The Web Page has not changed in years..The only up to date page.. is supporters player sponsorship for this season...You make great play about my drinking habits....and contributions to Facebook.....wonder where you dreamt these up..as neither are true in my case......I look forward to the result of the Special EGM  like all the supporters but unfortuneatly ..because of work commitments will be unable to attend......

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1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

But but but, the Talbot fans keep telling us it's a shite league and teams will lose money by joining it. Surely this can't be true?!

Talbot would be able to take their club to the next level by joining the pyramid and gaining their licence, the SJFA seem to want the juicy bits but reluctant to engage in the bigger picture, it’s sheer snobbery and disrespect to a lot of other clubs who have sacrificed. SPFL football may not appeal to Talbot but surely the Lowland League would, it’s an excellent division with big on field rewards for performance that will only get better each year.

Feel for Talbot as there’s no WOS at present but if there’s 1 club that can make that league happen for clubs in the West quickly it’s them. 

The SJFA proposal is to join the EOS at tier 6 in 2 years time, still stay Junior status, keep their unsponsored Scottish Cup, take the rewards from the big Scottish and Licencing without being fully on board with a 4-6 team play off for promotion to LL and they think League committees and clubs in the pyramid will have their belly ticked and accept that, really ??? I’d be amazed if this was passed, the guys running these leagues and the clubs within the pyramid ain’t no mugs, 

There’s talks ongoing now with SPFL clubs on whether Junior clubs even deserve their Scottish Cup place, receiving their prize money cheques whilst the guys in charge at the SJFA stick 2 fingers up to SFA Licencing and the pyramid. Doncaster being voted onto the SFA board may make it interesting even more, a guy who was pivotal along with the LL committee in getting Lowland League clubs into the Betfred and Irn Bru Cup ie respecting non league football and clubs who have put in the effort to be part of a pyramid and meet SFA guidelines and rules.

SJFA need to get on board  lock stock and barrel, respect present clubs within the structure and bolt onto the East, help create a new West structure and in a few years time we will wonder what all the fuss was about, by paying it lip service, having delusions of grandeur and trying to mug others off which is presently happening then you would think the present Junior clubs will suffer over the next few years due to these actions.

If TJ wanted to leave a legacy on his retirement which isn’t far off  then the above is it, as it stands he would retire with an unsponsored Scottish Cup, fixture pile ups each season for most member clubs, no floodlights midweek, no fixture lists, no u20/reserve league, little financial rewards, no SFA Licencing. Then his sidekick Glesgaboy comes out with if the clubs want change then it’s up to them to vote and force it, boll**ks theres a good salary being paid for leading, having a vision and providing for your Member clubs and it’s not happening and hasn’t for years.

Edited by kefc

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1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

Linlithgow only used a structure which was already in place as we met the set criteria - most teams would happily use any perceived competitive edge .  In our defence any financial gain has been reinvested in the ground not on inflated wages and transfer fees.

My point remains neither SJFA or SFA are actively taking a leading role - which they should be. 

Why should you take exception to one of the most successfully run clubs in the junior game meeting the required criteria when they did.......pioneers by the way in this respect...and you can see the results.......with their playing surface...player facilities....ground improvements.... as the result of their foresight......A bit of green cheese here me thinks...Surely this is a standard that all junior clubs should be aspiring too......Kelty have taken the plunge and again they have put the management structure......supporters facilities....and most importantly the marketing structure to promote their club...weel done......Lets give credit where credit is due.

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Great to see Bonnyrigg taking positive steps maybe they’ll get enough cash in the Scottish to level oot their pitch!  If they vote to go then Weegieboy will feel the tremors fae his hoose and Johnstone’s heid will explode :lol:

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Talbot would be able to take their club to the next level by joining the pyramid and gaining their licence, the SJFA seem to want the juicy bits but reluctant to engage in the bigger picture, it’s sheer snobbery and disrespect to a lot of other clubs who have sacrificed. SPFL football may not appeal to Talbot but surely the Lowland League would, it’s an excellent division with big on field rewards for performance that will only get better each year.
Feel for Talbot as there’s no WOS at present but if there’s 1 club that can make that league happen for clubs in the West quickly it’s them. 
The SJFA proposal is to join the EOS at tier 6 in 2 years time, still stay Junior status, keep their unsponsored Scottish Cup, take the rewards from the big Scottish and Licencing without being fully on board with a 4-6 team play off for promotion to LL and they think League committees and clubs in the pyramid will have their belly ticked and accept that, really ??? I’d be amazed if this was passed, the guys running these leagues and the clubs within the pyramid ain’t no mugs, 
There’s talks ongoing now with SPFL clubs on whether Junior clubs even deserve their Scottish Cup place, receiving their prize money cheques whilst the guys in charge at the SJFA stick 2 fingers up to SFA Licencing and the pyramid. Doncaster being voted onto the SFA board may make it interesting even more, a guy who was pivotal along with the LL committee in getting Lowland League clubs into the Betfred and Irn Bru Cup ie respecting non league football and clubs who have put in the effort to be part of a pyramid and meet SFA guidelines and rules.
SJFA need to get on board  lock stock and barrel, respect present clubs within the structure and bolt onto the East, help create a new West structure and in a few years time we will wonder what all the fuss was about, by paying it lip service, having delusions of grandeur and trying to mug others off which is presently happening then you would think the present Junior clubs will suffer over the next few years due to these actions.
If TJ wanted to leave a legacy on his retirement which isn’t far off  then the above is it, as it stands he would retire with an unsponsored Scottish Cup, fixture pile ups each season for most member clubs, no floodlights midweek, no fixture lists, no u20/reserve league, little financial rewards, no SFA Licencing. Then his sidekick Glesgaboy comes out with if the clubs want change then it’s up to them to vote and force it, boll**ks theres a good salary being paid for leading, having a vision and providing for your Member clubs and it’s not happening and hasn’t for years.
There's providing good leadership and there's voting yourself out of existence.

The SJFA aren't going to voluntarily extol the benefits of a pyramid and do their own legs in the process. That's why it needs to be driven by the clubs.

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1 hour ago, energyzone said:

There's providing good leadership and there's voting yourself out of existence.

The SJFA aren't going to voluntarily extol the benefits of a pyramid and do their own legs in the process. That's why it needs to be driven by the clubs.

What does that actually mean though? So what if the SJFA doesn't exist?  Who actually dies, loses their job or whatever as a result of a change of name or structure in this case?  The clubs don't suddenly disappear. The ball stays the same. 

How many paid employees are there?  Are we saying that the integration of 100+ clubs won't bring an extra burden to whatever organisation they are part of?  Is Tom Johnstone not going to find an alternative role within the sfa - or even carry over part of his role into the new world for the purposes of some continuity and experience? 

It is absolutely appalling leadership if your 160 clubs are getting fucked over because you're protecting your own hide instead of being part of the new thing. I've worked on loads of different stuff in the past where the success factor was that I wouldn't be necessary if whatever I was working on went as well as it could. It's a perfectly reasonable leadership outcome. 

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11 minutes ago, HTG said:

What does that actually mean though? So what if the SJFA doesn't exist?  Who actually dies, loses their job or whatever as a result of a change of name or structure in this case?  The clubs don't suddenly disappear. The ball stays the same. 

How many paid employees are there?  Are we saying that the integration of 100+ clubs won't bring an extra burden to whatever organisation they are part of?  Is Tom Johnstone not going to find an alternative role within the sfa - or even carry over part of his role into the new world for the purposes of some continuity and experience? 

It is absolutely appalling leadership if your 160 clubs are getting fucked over because you're protecting your own hide instead of being part of the new thing. I've worked on loads of different stuff in the past where the success factor was that I wouldn't be necessary if whatever I was working on went as well as it could. It's a perfectly reasonable leadership outcome. 

Does the SJFA still exist - in recent years I thought they were just an urban myth.........!!!!

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5 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Does the SJFA still exist - in recent years I thought they were just an urban myth.........!!!!

Try reinstatement lol

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Suggest you do that.....and I will be interested in their responses to your enquiry....I can assure you that I am not lying.....continuing sponsorship for season 2018/19..was refused from long time sponsors of the club.........The Web Page has not changed in years..The only up to date page.. is supporters player sponsorship for this season...You make great play about my drinking habits....and contributions to Facebook.....wonder where you dreamt these up..as neither are true in my case......I look forward to the result of the Special EGM  like all the supporters but unfortuneatly ..because of work commitments will be unable to attend......

Done I’ve phoned up 10 of the company’s on the website and told me they are paid sponsors for this season fancy that?

Iv asked the question to club officials and they have told me your claims are nonsense if a company fail to pay for this season sponsorship they boards are taking down so yes my friend you are telling lies!

 

Not hiding the identity very well....

Work aye ok

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10 minutes ago, Van magic said:


Done I’ve phoned up 10 of the company’s on the website and told me they are paid sponsors for this season fancy that?
Iv asked the question to club officials and they have told me your claims are nonsense if a company fail to pay for this season sponsorship they boards are taking down so yes my friend you are telling lies!

We all know your identity btw....

Interesting....are they any of the companies you listed ?....The club officials are correct in that they in the past....did take the boards down for non payment.....but all these boards have been up for a long time and some haven't contributed for a while..........one I am positive on........Getting personal are we..WE All KNOW YOUR IDENTITY btw ?.who is this btw. ?  Do I take this as a THREAT TO MY PERSON in the Bonnyrigg area ...and do I and my family have to take personal precautions for our safety?..If you and your friends are so sure of my identity or are you one of the individuals who attempted to hack into my account over the last few days..from EH19 OR EH22 but were unsuccessful because of the safe guards put in place by the site....I can only assume that YOU HAVE BECOME PERSONAL on this topic because the subject matter for the EGM isn't shaping up as certain club officials are hoping for....again I repeat that I would love to been able to attend but work commitments are against me.....but if the meeting is as firey as it looks like being ..I may be required..to attend...Take care Van Magic.

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Woohoo - there has been a dearth of capital letters in this thread. Finally they arrive! 

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