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Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...


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46 minutes ago, BS7 said:

Nothing has been decided or discussed, I think it’s genuinely down to what people feel tomorrow night. I think there are still reservations not least about the quality of the east of sco5land as it stands, but, neither can the juniors continue to exist in this vaccuum.

In an ideal world you'd integrate the 13 EoS teams into the East Juniors (60 clubs) then have that as your tier 6 feeder, but that doesn't look likely and the movement of clubs is going in the other direction.

If the EoS quality isn't good enough then you just spend one season there and get promoted to the Lowland League (assuming Kelty are no longer in the EoS). However the more Junior clubs move over the harder it will be to get out of due to the increased quality, plus more local games, which in turn makes it a more attractive league and softens the blow in case you're not promoted.

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Be interesting to see the outcome of your meeting. Any Bonnyrigg fans know what the feeling is within the club and support, Stay/Go?

Obviously it’s your club and a huge decision that isn’t without risk. In my opinion as I’ve stated I think the pyramid is inevitable and clubs that stay Junior risk being jumped by smaller teams like Dalkeith/Edinburgh Utd as the SFA/SJFA sit on their hands particularly in the East.

The EoS league is definitely a poorer standard but I think clubs like yours need to look at what it will be in 3 years time. It’s likely to end up being made up of the clubs from the the top two East Junior divisions and the lowland league being the best of the East / West Juniors with a few of the better current senior non league teams.

I’m genuinely curious to see if any of the Junior big fish can step up and improver our leagues. I hope to see a full pyramid in the near future with ALL Saturday teams under one system, we all love the same game no need for Senior/Junior/Amature tags.

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24 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Be interesting to see the outcome of your meeting. Any Bonnyrigg fans know what the feeling is within the club and support, Stay/Go?

Obviously it’s your club and a huge decision that isn’t without risk. In my opinion as I’ve stated I think the pyramid is inevitable and clubs that stay Junior risk being jumped by smaller teams like Dalkeith/Edinburgh Utd as the SFA/SJFA sit on their hands particularly in the East.

The EoS league is definitely a poorer standard but I think clubs like yours need to look at what it will be in 3 years time. It’s likely to end up being made up of the clubs from the the top two East Junior divisions and the lowland league being the best of the East / West Juniors with a few of the better current senior non league teams.

I’m genuinely curious to see if any of the Junior big fish can step up and improver our leagues. I hope to see a full pyramid in the near future with ALL Saturday teams under one system, we all love the same game no need for Senior/Junior/Amature tags.

If there is one thing almost guaranteed to cause a sensible pyramid to fail, it will be if there is a continued ranking of teams by the order in which they arrive when there is absolutely zero leadership from the SFA or the SJFA.  

It's very clear that the decision to move is easier for Dalkeith or Edinburgh Utd than it is for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow  (or Auchinleck). 

I would venture that income streams for a club like Dalkeith won't change much by switching leagues. I'm not sure you can say the same for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow. 

If there is to be a properly organised pyramid, someone will have to get a grip of it. There needs to be some recognition that the juniors as an entity have much to offer and that deciding their position on the basis of pace at which 120 teams APPLY to join 13 or 14 is just a ludicrous suggestion. 

I'll be honest. I fear a bit for my club here. This is a really tough decision in the absence of corporate leadership.  There is no vision or blueprint for integration. We don't have the extent of hefty single backr that Kelty have. If, in the process of trying to understand how this is going to pan out, our ultimate option is to join at tier 7 or 8 because the only rule is "if you're no fast you're last", then I personally would /will just chuck it. I'm not going to watch a fiasco unfold so if there is to be an integrated pyramid in the south it's time those who are supposed to be running the game actually did their fucking job and stopped taking money for f**k all.

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If there is one thing almost guaranteed to cause a sensible pyramid to fail, it will be if there is a continued ranking of teams by the order in which they arrive when there is absolutely zero leadership from the SFA or the SJFA.  
It's very clear that the decision to move is easier for Dalkeith or Edinburgh Utd than it is for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow  (or Auchinleck). 
I would venture that income streams for a club like Dalkeith won't change much by switching leagues. I'm not sure you can say the same for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow. 
If there is to be a properly organised pyramid, someone will have to get a grip of it. There needs to be some recognition that the juniors as an entity have much to offer and that deciding their position on the basis of pace at which 120 teams APPLY to join 13 or 14 is just a ludicrous suggestion. 
I'll be honest. I fear a bit for my club here. This is a really tough decision in the absence of corporate leadership.  There is no vision or blueprint for integration. We don't have the extent of hefty single backr that Kelty have. If, in the process of trying to understand how this is going to pan out, our ultimate option is to join at tier 7 or 8 because the only rule is "if you're no fast you're last", then I personally would /will just chuck it. I'm not going to watch a fiasco unfold so if there is to be an integrated pyramid in the south it's time those who are supposed to be running the game actually did their fucking job and stopped taking money for f**k all.


I agree with what you’re saying but the silence from the SFA is deafening and the SJFA seem to just come up with ridiculous plans that involve the Juniors staying separate but bolting on the side of the Lowland league / EoS and SoS without integrating but getting in the big cup. The longer this goes on the more Kelty’s or Dalkeith’s we’ll see. I’m not sure what the solution is while the SFA and SJFA do nothing as usual out-with a mass application from several big clubs at once to the EoS. I hope it gets worked out but like you I have no faith in our governing bodies and fear it will continue as is in the East.
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2 hours ago, BS7 said:

Nothing has been decided or discussed, I think it’s genuinely down to what people feel tomorrow night. I think there are still reservations not least about the quality of the east of sco5land as it stands, but, neither can the juniors continue to exist in this vaccuum.

I personally think the outcome of the Ballot/show of hands will be decided by numbers who have the Chairpersons invitation..With the officials and committee numbers supporting the resolution as it stands for a start ..the fully accredited supporters who are against  a change next season could easily be outnumbered on the night .Just a thought.or is that just me being  a little bit unreasonable.

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17 minutes ago, HTG said:

If there is one thing almost guaranteed to cause a sensible pyramid to fail, it will be if there is a continued ranking of teams by the order in which they arrive when there is absolutely zero leadership from the SFA or the SJFA.  

It's very clear that the decision to move is easier for Dalkeith or Edinburgh Utd than it is for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow  (or Auchinleck). 

I would venture that income streams for a club like Dalkeith won't change much by switching leagues. I'm not sure you can say the same for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow. 

If there is to be a properly organised pyramid, someone will have to get a grip of it. There needs to be some recognition that the juniors as an entity have much to offer and that deciding their position on the basis of pace at which 120 teams APPLY to join 13 or 14 is just a ludicrous suggestion. 

I'll be honest. I fear a bit for my club here. This is a really tough decision in the absence of corporate leadership.  There is no vision or blueprint for integration. We don't have the extent of hefty single backr that Kelty have. If, in the process of trying to understand how this is going to pan out, our ultimate option is to join at tier 7 or 8 because the only rule is "if you're no fast you're last", then I personally would /will just chuck it. I'm not going to watch a fiasco unfold so if there is to be an integrated pyramid in the south it's time those who are supposed to be running the game actually did their fucking job and stopped taking money for f**k all.

 

19 minutes ago, HTG said:

If there is one thing almost guaranteed to cause a sensible pyramid to fail, it will be if there is a continued ranking of teams by the order in which they arrive when there is absolutely zero leadership from the SFA or the SJFA.  

It's very clear that the decision to move is easier for Dalkeith or Edinburgh Utd than it is for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow  (or Auchinleck). 

I would venture that income streams for a club like Dalkeith won't change much by switching leagues. I'm not sure you can say the same for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow. 

If there is to be a properly organised pyramid, someone will have to get a grip of it. There needs to be some recognition that the juniors as an entity have much to offer and that deciding their position on the basis of pace at which 120 teams APPLY to join 13 or 14 is just a ludicrous suggestion. 

I'll be honest. I fear a bit for my club here. This is a really tough decision in the absence of corporate leadership.  There is no vision or blueprint for integration. We don't have the extent of hefty single backr that Kelty have. If, in the process of trying to understand how this is going to pan out, our ultimate option is to join at tier 7 or 8 because the only rule is "if you're no fast you're last", then I personally would /will just chuck it. I'm not going to watch a fiasco unfold so if there is to be an integrated pyramid in the south it's time those who are supposed to be running the game actually did their fucking job and stopped taking money for f**k all.

To be fair the last thing we need is fans just deciding to ‘chuck it’ at the slightest thing that’s not going their way. By that rationale only Barca and Real would have actual fans.

Perhaps just maybe it’s Linlithgow that needs to move with the times. There’s been some great posts of late about all the advantages of signing up to the pyramid, including financially. 

Kelty are away, Bo’ness set to follow and quite possibly Bonnyrigg too. Will Linlithgow continue to be happy dominating an ever decreasing pond, or perhaps decide to join the big boys knowing that results will be tougher to come by.

Very interesting year or two ahead in the pipeline either way.

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, HTG said:

If there is one thing almost guaranteed to cause a sensible pyramid to fail, it will be if there is a continued ranking of teams by the order in which they arrive when there is absolutely zero leadership from the SFA or the SJFA.  

It's very clear that the decision to move is easier for Dalkeith or Edinburgh Utd than it is for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow  (or Auchinleck). 

I would venture that income streams for a club like Dalkeith won't change much by switching leagues. I'm not sure you can say the same for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow. 

If there is to be a properly organised pyramid, someone will have to get a grip of it. There needs to be some recognition that the juniors as an entity have much to offer and that deciding their position on the basis of pace at which 120 teams APPLY to join 13 or 14 is just a ludicrous suggestion. 

I'll be honest. I fear a bit for my club here. This is a really tough decision in the absence of corporate leadership.  There is no vision or blueprint for integration. We don't have the extent of hefty single backr that Kelty have. If, in the process of trying to understand how this is going to pan out, our ultimate option is to join at tier 7 or 8 because the only rule is "if you're no fast you're last", then I personally would /will just chuck it. I'm not going to watch a fiasco unfold so if there is to be an integrated pyramid in the south it's time those who are supposed to be running the game actually did their fucking job and stopped taking money for f**k all.

There is a clear choice for clubs:  Stay in the Juniors (the SJFA wants to retain its independence) or join the pyramid system which has been established by the SFA and agreed to by its member clubs.

Clubs need to determine what is best for them and lead from the front, not sit back and wait for somebody else to fix it.

It seems this is happening in the West with proactive clubs now talking to each other.

In the East if Bonnyrigg agree to leave and others follow, which is bound to happen, the gate income for those clubs would stay the same because they will still be playing each other.  

 

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On 19/03/2018 at 23:44, BENJI BOY said:

The sad thing for me is that the present Committee have refurbished the main hall and the games room and have plans to do the same to the toilets and then the John White Lounge that we used...It has all our past players International and Scottish cup jerseys with a large display case of caps and other momentos /trophys from our past achievements and they are not being seen by the present day fans......on match days.....The point you make of guaranteeing availability is a good one.but surely this is not an unsurmountable problem with a bit of serious come and go or have I got it terribly wrong.. Gimme.

Is this discussion about the football team and which league it plays in? Or the Social club that wont help the team out?

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1 hour ago, BENJI BOY said:

I personally think the outcome of the Ballot/show of hands will be decided by numbers who have the Chairpersons invitation..With the officials and committee numbers supporting the resolution as it stands for a start ..the fully accredited supporters who are against  a change next season could easily be outnumbered on the night .Just a thought.or is that just me being  a little bit unreasonable.

Bill, Are you implying that you think that the chairperson will be inviting people solely for the purpose of enhancing what he would like the outcome to be? Paranoid .....

Just keep talking ....

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7 hours ago, Bundesliga Boy said:

 

To be fair the last thing we need is fans just deciding to ‘chuck it’ at the slightest thing that’s not going their way. By that rationale only Barca and Real would have actual fans.

Perhaps just maybe it’s Linlithgow that needs to move with the times. There’s been some great posts of late about all the advantages of signing up to the pyramid, including financially. 

Kelty are away, Bo’ness set to follow and quite possibly Bonnyrigg too. Will Linlithgow continue to be happy dominating an ever decreasing pond, or perhaps decide to join the big boys knowing that results will be tougher to come by.

Very interesting year or two ahead in the pipeline either way.

Just to be clear,  this isn't "the slightest thing". It's a massive thing. And this isn't about being a big fish,  All I'm saying is we need some visible leadership from the governing body. I'm as big a fan of the pyramid as you'll find but I'm becoming increasingly dismayed by the void. 

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43 minutes ago, HTG said:

Just to be clear,  this isn't "the slightest thing". It's a massive thing. And this isn't about being a big fish,  All I'm saying is we need some visible leadership from the governing body. I'm as big a fan of the pyramid as you'll find but I'm becoming increasingly dismayed by the void. 

No, we need leadership from the big clubs. 

"Hail the Gallant" and all that.

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8 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

I personally think the outcome of the Ballot/show of hands will be decided by numbers who have the Chairpersons invitation..With the officials and committee numbers supporting the resolution as it stands for a start ..the fully accredited supporters who are against  a change next season could easily be outnumbered on the night .Just a thought.or is that just me being  a little bit unreasonable.

I don't remember the exact wording, but the way I recall the phrasing was that the meeting was for essentially shareholders and members of the general public were allowed in at the Chairperson's discretion. I don't think it was implied that the general public would get a vote in the proceedings.

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If there is one thing almost guaranteed to cause a sensible pyramid to fail, it will be if there is a continued ranking of teams by the order in which they arrive when there is absolutely zero leadership from the SFA or the SJFA.  
It's very clear that the decision to move is easier for Dalkeith or Edinburgh Utd than it is for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow  (or Auchinleck). 
I would venture that income streams for a club like Dalkeith won't change much by switching leagues. I'm not sure you can say the same for Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow. 
If there is to be a properly organised pyramid, someone will have to get a grip of it. There needs to be some recognition that the juniors as an entity have much to offer and that deciding their position on the basis of pace at which 120 teams APPLY to join 13 or 14 is just a ludicrous suggestion. 
I'll be honest. I fear a bit for my club here. This is a really tough decision in the absence of corporate leadership.  There is no vision or blueprint for integration. We don't have the extent of hefty single backr that Kelty have. If, in the process of trying to understand how this is going to pan out, our ultimate option is to join at tier 7 or 8 because the only rule is "if you're no fast you're last", then I personally would /will just chuck it. I'm not going to watch a fiasco unfold so if there is to be an integrated pyramid in the south it's time those who are supposed to be running the game actually did their fucking job and stopped taking money for f**k all.


What income streams will change for Linlithgow that don't seem to have changed for Kelty? Bearing in mind you've benefited from a Licence for longer than any club in the East.
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