Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...

[Che Dail]

11 minutes ago, Black Dug said:

We need governance from the governing body.

Yes but they have a duty to all clubs, not just the ones in the Junior bubble. 

They also have to function within the parameters of the law which means that they can't force clubs or the SJFA to do things against their will.

Scotland the brave? Time folk stood up to the plate instead of hiding.

[Burnie_man]

I'd also wager that the likes of Dalkeith wouldn't be too chuffed if, when they move for next season, subsequently suffer from Junior clubs in the following seasons waltzing in above them at a higher level.

 

Like it or not, the boat has sailed on an orderly merger of EoS and ERJFA. You know what's on offer so move, and if that means Linlithgow or Bonnyrigg or anyone else joining at the level below because they've waited a season or two longer then so be it, it's not as if you couldn't see it coming.

 

 

 

 

[A.M]

To be honest I havent read through the hundreds of pages regarding the pyramid and leaving the juniors etc, but I would like to ask one simple question.

The Juniors have survived for over a hundred years, what has changed over the last couple of years to now have people saying it cant survive and we need to join the pyramid system.

I am not being funny , I just want to understand, but this time last year Bonnyrigg werent interested in leaving the Juniors, can someone explain to me what has changed in one season to make the juniors all of a sudden become so undesirable ?

Also it seems a lot of the fans are in favour ( also a lot against ), what are their reasons .

If I were a Bonnyrigg fan my main fears about leaving would be the obvious drop in quality of football I'd be watching next season and how long am I going to watch it ?

If for example Bonnyrigg decide tonight to make the move and they are then followed by others , that would mean that some of those making the move will still be in that league a couple of years down the line with only one promotion per season , so you could be watching that standard of football for a few years as opposed to the recent and upcoming fixtures you have now ?

I read the kelty fellas post the other day, but his arguments for me were purely about money, if thats what its about then I could understand, but for pure football I dont ?

[8MileBU]

To be honest I havent read through the hundreds of pages regarding the pyramid and leaving the juniors etc, but I would like to ask one simple question.

I am not being funny , I just want to understand, but this time last year Bonnyrigg werent interested in leaving the Juniors, can someone explain to me what has changed in one season to make the juniors all of a sudden become so undesirable ?

Loads of pages indeed but this thread, for the most part, has been probably the best read and debate in my time on P&B.

This time last year nobody really knew 100% where Bonnyrigg stood but you’d be daft to think they weren’t watching developments closely and weighing up their options. In terms of their stance last year I think their hand was forced into making some sort of statement of their intentions due to the relentless speculation that they’d be jumping over to the pyramid, based purely on them being the other big club in the East. So in a nutshell, I don’t think a lot has changed in a year, it’s just a case of clubs taking a bit of time to consider their options and now after discussions, meetings and doing the ground work, some clubs may be ready to now act upon it.

[Che Dail]

28 minutes ago, A.M said:

If I were a Bonnyrigg fan my main fears about leaving would be the obvious drop in quality of football I'd be watching next season and how long am I going to watch it?

If for example Bonnyrigg decide tonight to make the move and they are then followed by others , that would mean that some of those making the move will still be in that league a couple of years down the line with only one promotion per season , so you could be watching that standard of football for a few years as opposed to the recent and upcoming fixtures you have now ?

If Linlithgow and Bo'ness follow Bonnyrigg, the "standard" will be more or less the same.

The players will also follow (where the money is).

Rangers couldn't beat a team from Luxembourg and Scotland still hasn't qualified for a major championship - that's the standard we should be worrying about, not marginal differences in the lower levels of the game.

[A.M]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

If Linlithgow and Bo'ness follow Bonnyrigg, the "standard" will be more or less the same.

The players will also follow (where the money is).

Rangers couldn't beat a team from Luxembourg and Scotland still hasn't qualified for a major championship - that's the standard we should be worrying about, not marginal differences in the lower levels of the game.

Only for one or two games ?

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in Rangers, I am a junior fan, and I am still waiting for the answer to my simple question,  what has changed to make the juniors so undesirable in the past few years ?

[Burnie_man]

Only for one or two games ?
I'm not in the slightest bit interested in Rangers, I am a junior fan, and I am still waiting for the answer to my simple question,  what has changed to make the juniors so undesirable in the past few years ?

Because some clubs want to join the Pyramid and be part of mainstream football, reap the financial rewards, see how far they can go, are fed up with the way the Juniors are run. There's no single reason.

[A.M]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

Because some clubs want to join the Pyramid and be part of mainstream football, reap the financial rewards, see how far they can go, are fed up with the way the Juniors are run. There's no single reason.

 

So as far as the Juniors are concerned , nothing has changed ?  Its some clubs attitudes that have changed  regards money ?

 

Thanks for your honest opinion.

[Che Dail]

11 minutes ago, A.M said:

Only for one or two games ?

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in Rangers, I am a junior fan, and I am still waiting for the answer to my simple question,  what has changed to make the juniors so undesirable in the past few years ?

Still waiting. Why not take the time to read through the threads and find out for yourself?

Your question has been answered umpteen times.

[A.M]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Still waiting. Why not take the time to read through the threads and find out for yourself?

Your question has been answered umpteen times.

I dont have the time to sift through some of the drivel , why cant you just tell me in simple terms, as I said I am not trying to be funny , just looking for a simple answer ?

[Che Dail]

11 minutes ago, A.M said:

I dont have the time to sift through some of the drivel , why cant you just tell me in simple terms, as I said I am not trying to be funny , just looking for a simple answer ?

 

12 minutes ago, A.M said:

I dont have the time to sift through some of the drivel , why cant you just tell me in simple terms, as I said I am not trying to be funny , just looking for a simple answer ?

You asked the same question, "what has changed in the last year" on this thread on 13th March,  Page 7 and it was answered then. 

[A.M]

3 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

 

You asked the same question, "what has changed in the last year" on this thread on 13th March,  Page 7 and it was answered then. 

Correct I did ask the question on page 7 , and you replied , you did not answer my question then either , you only told me about numbers and teams wanting to move , you didnt tell me what has CHANGED in the juniors to make teams wish to leave ?

 

It would appear reading the posts from yourself and others canvassing the move that in actual fact nothing has changed in the juniors, just that some teams want to make the move for purely financial reasons like Kelty did.

[Auld Heid]

Only for one or two games ?
I'm not in the slightest bit interested in Rangers, I am a junior fan, and I am still waiting for the answer to my simple question,  what has changed to make the juniors so undesirable in the past few years ?

Money is the simple answer.

There is no real money in junior football. In the EoS there is better access to funding etc.

The SJFA have let junior football slowly die over the years. They attract zero to the junior game.

Bonnyrigg through sheer hard graft have reached their current standards fighting at the top.

In the EoS they start from the bottom to try and achieve realistically better financial rewards.

[Gimme]

I don't think anything has changed in the Juniors, and that's probably half the problem. If they were proactive in bringing about change or innovation within the game no-one would be looking to move.

The grade doesn't really market itself very well, can't attract sponsors and can't produce a fixture list.

Clubs are now looking at what's on offer elsewhere and yes no doubt money plays a major part in that, but so do the basics.

As an example a fixture list will probably result in higher season ticket numbers as it allows people to plan, it also allows clubs an opportunity to sell hospitality packages with more than a few days notice. It provides a slightly more professional appearance if you can tell people when you'll play Club X or Y and helps clubs bring in sponsorship.

If clubs are bringing in more money then standards should improve in footballing terms as well as the stature of the clubs improving, it provides the opportunity for youth and U20's teams to fall under one umbrella and money to be invested in the next generation of players who just maybe might get the country to a major championship.

There are of course risks, it would be folley to think there weren't but if the loss of a local derby is the biggest negative is it really a risk at all?

[db11]

AM maybe that is the point. Nothing has changed. The juniors are no closer to joining the pyramid system.  Bonnyrigg have been looking to gain their sfa licence for a few years and reap the rewards and the benefits that brings.  The various ground improvements to get the licence have been carried out. There has been talk over the last 5 or so years of the juniors joining pyramid and nothing has happened.  My personal belief is that eventually promotion from the superleague would be into eos league,  problem is that by doing nothing 10 or 20  teams could get ahead of us by joining eos league. Instead of 1 league promotion, to get into lowland league it could require 2,3 or 4.   

 

[Che Dail]

14 minutes ago, A.M said:

Correct I did ask the question on page 7 , and you replied , you did not answer my question then either , you only told me about numbers and teams wanting to move , you didnt tell me what has CHANGED in the juniors to make teams wish to leave ?

It would appear reading the posts from yourself and others canvassing the move that in actual fact nothing has changed in the juniors, just that some teams want to make the move for purely financial reasons like Kelty did.

People have realised that nothing has or is likely to CHANGE in the Juniors, and it is partly this lack of action and leadership which is why clubs are looking to move elsewhere.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

It's an interesting question what's changed.

I guess what's changed is culture in the younger generations. The volume of people who build there week around match day has fallen.

A simple step by the Sjfa would have been to put a fixture list out, even for the first half of the season if its league deciders they are holding to set up

This alone would mean clubs could set up hospitality well in advance and that fans who don't go every week could plan ahead to make a match.

If a team has floodlights, they should be allowed to use them etc

This isn't radical stuff and hasn't even been thought about. This imo is the reason why it's coming about.

The money is still broadly the same in that you have to perform well to get it.

[Burnie_man]

So as far as the Juniors are concerned , nothing has changed ?  Its some clubs attitudes that have changed  regards money ?
 
Thanks for your honest opinion.

No, I have given you several reasons. It will be a mix of those and others specific to each club.

Money is a very large factor as there is none in Junior football, but it's not the only reason.

[A.M]

Thank you , at last....nothing has changed in the juniors, whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion I suppose.

Gimme, db11, my main reason for making this point is that teams are making the juniors an excuse for leaving when the truth is that the juniors havent got worse ( or better ), the clubs who want to move are doing so for their own financial reasons, so just say that ....dont use the juniors as an excuse.

As Bonnyrigg fans ( forgetting the finances ) I assume you guys are happy to watch the Rose playing in the EOS for at least one season, maybe one or two more  before progressing to the LL ?

Everybody seems to have accepted that Kelty are a given for promotion this season but if you take a close look at the EOS table they might not be , Lothian Vale have also won all their games , 14 from 14 , and still have Kelty to play twice. Bearing in mind they have already beaten Kelty in a cup tie this season its reasionable to assume they COULD beat them in the league twice and therefore Kelty would in fact remain in the EOS next season .

I am not being awkward but someone asked for a Devils advocate yesterday and just thought I would make some points for discussion for those Bonnyrigg fans who have a vote tonight ?

[db11]

My own thinking has been that the standard in the juniors has been getting slightly poorer in the last few years. There have been some particularly weak teams at the bottom half of the superleague the last couple of years.  There's likely to be a significant dip in quality next season, a team finishing    9th or 10th in premier could well be playing in superleague next season.