Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...

[BS7]

49 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I'd've thought if there were support from clubs for an 'all in' non-league cup, then the Junior Cup would be ideal for that. There's no reason the EoSFL and SoSFL couldn't be involved now, other than our country's bizarre football grading system.

And the lowland league for that matter if they want to enter

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Or do you move for what is probably driven by financial motivation of a cup run that will ultimately always end in defeat. 

It's amazing the lack of self-awareness amongst some supporters of the big clubs.  At least 90% of Junior clubs can say exactly the same about the Junior Cup.  At least in the Scottish Cup, you will be financially rewarded for your efforts instead of it actually costing you money in the sponsorless cup.

Perhaps Scottish clubs should turn down the chance of Champions League football and forget about the money, I mean its always going to end in defeat isnt it.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

There was some decent debate on this thread once. But now it's a cluster of pettiness and point scoring.

Well summed up    

[Auld Heid]

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's amazing the lack of self-awareness amongst some supporters of the big clubs.  At least 90% of Junior clubs can say exactly the same about the Junior Cup.  At least in the Scottish Cup, you will be financially rewarded for your efforts instead of it actually costing you money in the sponsorless cup.

Perhaps Scottish clubs should turn down the chance of Champions League football and forget about the money, I mean its always going to end in defeat isnt it.

Don't agree - our achievements are our own, a pathway potentially achievable by anyone.   We are where we are on our own efforts over the years.   Our financial position is one of our own making and our spending is dictated by our earned income.   We didn't just appear on the scene this was a work in progress for over 100 years.

Surely the immediate challenge for the 90% is to aspire towards being within  or increasing the 10%?   Or is moving to the EoS seen by some clubs within the 90% you refer and easy solution to access potential financial windfalls?   

What does this achieve for the so called 90% - do they suddenly become a more competitive team,  do they start attracting more fans and committee?  Surely aspiring to the EoS and the pathway it provides should be on footballing merit and having the  proper infrastructure in place.  

(My opinion) 

 

 

[lithgierose]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

Agree with this - winning the SJFA cup is a memory that lasts forever and achievable.  The SFA cup are a bit of fun and good memories but ultimately comes with a defeat.

At Junior both Linlithgow and Bonnyrigg have reached a peak - the challenge is to maintain that. 

Or do you move for what is probably driven by financial motivation of a cup run that will ultimately always end in defeat.  Challenge yourself to get to a level in the SFL - a level which could see you travelling to Peterhead mid-week in a mid-table clash because that's your level.

Agreed - you are in a lucky position that you will have an opportunity to discuss the future of Bonnyrigg at an early stage.  Linlithgow seem to be oblivious to what's happening around them. 

 

You could always call for an EGM. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Don't agree - our achievements are our own, a pathway potentially achievable by anyone.   We are where we are on our own efforts over the years.   Our financial position is one of our own making and our spending is dictated by our earned income.   We didn't just appear on the scene this was a work in progress for over 100 years.

Surely the immediate challenge for the 90% is to aspire towards being within  or increasing the 10%?   Or is moving to the EoS seen by some clubs within the 90% you refer and easy solution to access potential financial windfalls?   

What does this achieve for the so called 90% - do they suddenly become a more competitive team,  do they start attracting more fans and committee?  Surely aspiring to the EoS and the pathway it provides should be on footballing merit and having the  proper infrastructure in place.  

(My opinion) 

 

 

L

[Guest]

Linlithgow and Auchinleck have always been the two clubs that have stood out...consistently..as the goal for any junior club over the years....and as you say it has been achieved by a lot of hard work and making sure you spend within your means for long term success.....That has come...OK......a few hiccups along the way..but these were overcome by a solid management structure and goals in place.....Prestonfield is a gem of a setting for any junior fan..and the same can be said about Bellfield....Success breads success and the fans will turn up and one of the important factors is that the fans feel part of the club they support..and.are there through thick and thin years.......Looking forward to the next ..battle of the Roses on Saturday 24th.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

Don't agree - our achievements are our own, a pathway potentially achievable by anyone.   We are where we are on our own efforts over the years.   Our financial position is one of our own making and our spending is dictated by our earned income.   We didn't just appear on the scene this was a work in progress for over 100 years.

Surely the immediate challenge for the 90% is to aspire towards being within  or increasing the 10%?   Or is moving to the EoS seen by some clubs within the 90% you refer and easy solution to access potential financial windfalls?   

What does this achieve for the so called 90% - do they suddenly become a more competitive team,  do they start attracting more fans and committee?  Surely aspiring to the EoS and the pathway it provides should be on footballing merit and having the  proper infrastructure in place.  

(My opinion) 

 

 

 

You questioned why clubs want to move to a set-up where they have no chance of winning the main cup competition, I pointed out that this is no different from the main competition in the Juniors, or indeed the main competition in European club football.

To repeat, the blindingly obvious difference is that in the Juniors those clubs who have no chance of winning the Junior Cup can and do suffer financial loss from competing in it (some clubs refuse to take part as a result), whilst in the “Seniors” competing in the Scottish Cup brings in financial rewards particularly if they go a few rounds, and in turn this increased finance can help the clubs progress on and off the pitch. Bonnyrigg know this only too well (and your club).

That is no different to Celtic entering the Champions League, a competition they cannot win but which will bring great financial rewards.  No different than the SFA’s desire to see Scotland qualify again for a Finals tournament we have no chance of winning but which will bring in £millions in revenue.

Why should the 90% of Junior clubs not go down the same route as the rest of football and instead stay in an environment where there is no financial rewards at all?  Why should Bonnyrigg stick around shelling out money on their squad trying to win a competition they haven’t won in 40 years with prize money of £8k? (it’s been at the same for over 20 years!).  It makes zero sense, and I’m fairly sure all Junior clubs do their upmost to attract committee, fans and finance and will continue to do so regardless of where they are playing.

Some people need to open their eyes to reality, Junior football offers NOTHING to the vast vast majority of its clubs.

[HTG]

41 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

You questioned why clubs want to move to a set-up where they have no chance of winning the main cup competition, I pointed out that this is no different from the main competition in the Juniors, or indeed the main competition in European club football.

To repeat, the blindingly obvious difference is that in the Juniors those clubs who have no chance of winning the Junior Cup can and do suffer financial loss from competing in it (some clubs refuse to take part as a result), whilst in the “Seniors” competing in the Scottish Cup brings in financial rewards particularly if they go a few rounds, and in turn this increased finance can help the clubs progress on and off the pitch. Bonnyrigg know this only too well (and your club).

That is no different to Celtic entering the Champions League, a competition they cannot win but which will bring great financial rewards.  No different than the SFA’s desire to see Scotland qualify again for a Finals tournament we have no chance of winning but which will bring in £millions in revenue.

Why should the 90% of Junior clubs not go down the same route as the rest of football and instead stay in an environment where there is no financial rewards at all?  Why should Bonnyrigg stick around shelling out money on their squad trying to win a competition they haven’t won in 40 years with prize money of £8k? (it’s been at the same for over 20 years!).  It makes zero sense, and I’m fairly sure all Junior clubs do their upmost to attract committee, fans and finance and will continue to do so regardless of where they are playing.

Some people need to open their eyes to reality, Junior football offers NOTHING to the vast vast majority of its clubs.

Amen 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, HTG said:

Amen 

That's this thread wrapped up ......Dresden Amen has closed this chapter.....Awaiting results of EGM  NEXT Wednesday to begin a new chapter...fair doos.

[Van magic]

Amen 

Amen

[Unknown Fan]

10 minutes ago, Van magic said:

Amen

The next Bonnyrigg Rose Mass will be on the evening Wednesday 21st March,

AAAAmen,

God Bless

[Van magic]

The next Bonnyrigg Rose Mass will be on the evening Wednesday 21st March,
AAAAmen,
God Bless

Amen to that too

[archieb]

4 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

I'd've thought if there were support from clubs for an 'all in' non-league cup, then the Junior Cup would be ideal for that. There's no reason the EoSFL and SoSFL couldn't be involved now, other than our country's bizarre football grading system.

 

3 hours ago, BS7 said:

And the lowland league for that matter if they want to enter

NCL and HL too?

ALL those clubs could be incorporated without any additional rounds being added, it would just reduce the number of byes in R1!

[Van magic]

Scottish non league cup dreaming of it already [emoji846]

[A.M]

So leave the juniors but still play in the Junior Cup ?

[Auld Heid]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

 

You questioned why clubs want to move to a set-up where they have no chance of winning the main cup competition, I pointed out that this is no different from the main competition in the Juniors, or indeed the main competition in European club football.    NO mention on the 90% raising their footballing standards towards the top 10%.   European requires qualification - so is based upon football attainment.

To repeat, the blindingly obvious difference is that in the Juniors those clubs who have no chance of winning the Junior Cup can and do suffer financial loss from competing in it (some clubs refuse to take part as a result), whilst in the “Seniors” competing in the Scottish Cup brings in financial rewards particularly if they go a few rounds, and in turn this increased finance can help the clubs progress on and off the pitch. Bonnyrigg know this only too well (and your club).   Moving to the EoS should be about improving football not financing ailing clubs already struggling.   Linlithgow/Bonnyrigg qualify for the Scottish Cup by either qualification or reaching required standards

That is no different to Celtic entering the Champions League, a competition they cannot win but which will bring great financial rewards.  No different than the SFA’s desire to see Scotland qualify again for a Finals tournament we have no chance of winning but which will bring in £millions in revenue.  Again Celtic qualify on footballing merit.  Forfar can't enter the Champions League - unless they qualify.   Yet we have teams wishing to move to the EoS for purely financial reasons without any footballing qualification. (With that logic surely they should apply straight to the SPL)

Why should the 90% of Junior clubs not go down the same route as the rest of football and instead stay in an environment where there is no financial rewards at all?  Why should Bonnyrigg stick around shelling out money on their squad trying to win a competition they haven’t won in 40 years with prize money of £8k? (it’s been at the same for over 20 years!).  It makes zero sense, and I’m fairly sure all Junior clubs do their upmost to attract committee, fans and finance and will continue to do so regardless of where they are playing.  What have the 90% done to improve Junior football - Bonnyrigg were in the 90% and worked towards the 10% proof of what hard work can achieve.  Sadly many within the 90% bring nothing to Junior Football - because they have no infrastructure/committee/support (no matter how hard they try).  So I don't see the benefits to football of teams being allowed to jump ship without qualification

Some people need to open their eyes to reality, Junior football offers NOTHING to the vast vast majority of its clubs.   Totally agree on this and appreciate change needs to happen.  But the danger we have is without proper management - the EoS becomes diluted and football suffers.   The EoS should be very wary on allowing teams to enter without proper due diligence and ensuring applicants meet required standards  Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be  the case.

 

 

 

[Cyclizine]

1 hour ago, A.M said:

So leave the juniors but still play in the Junior Cup ?

Why not? Junior teams play in the Scottish Cup, a senior competition.  The sooner this artificial distinction between senior/junior/amateur/welfare is done away with, the better!

[A.M]

4 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Why not? Junior teams play in the Scottish Cup, a senior competition.  The sooner this artificial distinction between senior/junior/amateur/welfare is done away with, the better!

Only four can qualify , other than the registered teams.

I would guess the main attraction to joining the EOS for the likes of Bonnyrigg is the chance to play every year in the Scottish Cup and perhaps reap the rewards they achieved last year ?

If and when the leagues combined then there would be a non league Cup , but at the moment if there are only a couple of teams leaving the Juniors, similar to Kelty they are leaving the juniors behind and also the junior cup

[bookerman]

8 minutes ago, A.M said:

 

I would guess the main attraction to joining the EOS for the likes of Bonnyrigg is the chance to play every year in the Scottish Cup and perhaps reap the rewards they achieved last year ?

If and when the leagues combined then there would be a non league Cup , but at the moment if there are only a couple of teams leaving the Juniors, similar to Kelty they are leaving the juniors behind and also the junior cup

Don't you need a licence to enter the senior Scottish cup, So teams who applying to join the EOS will surely have that in there long term thinking.