Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...

[Che Dail]

10 minutes ago, A.M said:

I dont know where all the panic is coming from, only ONE team has left the Superleague and they werent always a top side, so the league is still as strong as it was ?

This time last year Bonnyrigg werent interested in moving , what has changed ?

The past five years or so  Bonnyrigg have been closer and closer to winning the Scottish Junior Cup, a double decker bus through the streets with thousands partying in the streets like they did twice before, are fans happy to give all that up to play in lower league football.

'Panic' is unreasoned and arbitrary. There is no panic - clubs seeking to move are taking logical and pragmatic steps to look after their long-term interests.

From what I can gather there are at least 4 East SL club committees (including Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness) discussing a move to the EoS plus 3 Premier clubs (including Dalkeith) and 1 from the South League. 

Add also the club 'just north of Tay' whatever league they play in. 

Kelty paved the way...

[A.M]

6 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

'Panic' is unreasoned and arbitrary. There is no panic - clubs seeking to move are taking logical and pragmatic steps to look after their long-term interests.

From what I can gather there are at least 4 East SL club committees (including Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness) discussing a move to the EoS plus 3 Premier clubs (including Dalkeith) and 1 from the South League. 

Add also the club 'just north of Tay' whatever league they play in. 

Kelty paved the way...

Panic may not be the reasoned word , however what has changed in one season to cause a u-turn, the teams you mention met with Kelty last year and Kelty were the only ones to make the move.

If as you say 3 or 4 teams make the move to the EOS league then one of those teams will still be in that league 3 or 4 years down the line if only one promotion spot is available to the Lowland League .

Is that really what the fans want to watch ? If so fair enough , not for me personally

 

[Burnie_man]

I think people need to look at this with a long term view and not what any particular league will look like next season.

If the current trend continues, in five years time the Lowland League will look a whole lot different to what it is now, and it will be a very strong league with the possibility of more ex-SPFL members in there such as Cowdenbeath or Clyde, and with the addition of anything between 6-10 (former) Junior sides plus maybe Spartans, East Stirlingshire, Gretna, East Kilbride, Whitehill Welfare etc  The small fry currently in there will be gone and found their true level in a lower tier.

The East of Scotland League will probably resemble a mix of the current Superleague/Premierleague with maybe a few former LL/EoS clubs in there, but to all intents and purposes the tiers below the LL in the East will effectively be (former) Junior club dominated and little will have changed for a lot of clubs in terms of league opponents. There might be even more regionalisation further down which will suit some clubs.

The big change will be that clubs will now be free to get Licenced and reap the benefits, as well as being part of a more professional structure.

Every Junior club should be having the same debate that Bonnyrigg (and some others) are currently having, and asking themselves what the benefits are of staying loyal to the Juniors versus leaving and joining the Pyramid.  I would be very wary of relying on the SJFA to act in the games best interests, they have a long history of being insular and anti-Pyramid. Have they even published the results of the survey yet?

[TFW]

You miss one thing though Burnie_man, money. If people come in with sufficient funds in the Lowland League, as they have done in the Conference / National League down south you'll end up with a lot of ex SFL clubs in the LL and the SFL populated by the likes of BSC, Cumbernauld Colts and anyone else who can attract less than 100 fans for a home game at the moment.

In the English League at the moment you have the likes of Fleetwood Town, Crawley Town, Forest Green Rovers and maybe one or two more who came through the Pyramid thanks to the benevolence of a sugar daddy. Meanwhile, you have ex League teams like Stockport and York (and probably Chester and Torquay next year) playing at a level below the National League. I think we've all seen how  money men have bought into Junior clubs, Dundee St Josephs, Kilwinning, Irvine Meadow and others to try and get cheap publicity and kudos whilst sytematically destroying the clubs. It will happen again - it has done in the Highland League with Brora - and will give the much smaller clubs the ability to move up, rather than downwards as you predict.

[Burnie_man]

13 minutes ago, TFW said:

You miss one thing though Burnie_man, money. If people come in with sufficient funds in the Lowland League, as they have done in the Conference / National League down south you'll end up with a lot of ex SFL clubs in the LL and the SFL populated by the likes of BSC, Cumbernauld Colts and anyone else who can attract less than 100 fans for a home game at the moment.

In the English League at the moment you have the likes of Fleetwood Town, Crawley Town, Forest Green Rovers and maybe one or two more who came through the Pyramid thanks to the benevolence of a sugar daddy. Meanwhile, you have ex League teams like Stockport and York (and probably Chester and Torquay next year) playing at a level below the National League. I think we've all seen how  money men have bought into Junior clubs, Dundee St Josephs, Kilwinning, Irvine Meadow and others to try and get cheap publicity and kudos whilst sytematically destroying the clubs. It will happen again - it has done in the Highland League with Brora - and will give the much smaller clubs the ability to move up, rather than downwards as you predict.

As you point out money men have always been in and around the Junior game to greater and lesser degrees, bankrolling clubs to massage their own egos.  There’s at least three operating in the East Region at this very moment at various levels.

I’m not sure that is any argument against the Pyramid given that this approach to buying success already exists and will continue to do so, sensibly run Junior clubs being leapfrogged by the “Sugar Daddy” clubs and waving to them as they fall past them on the way back down a couple of seasons later.  That will always happen as long as league football exists, but well run clubs will always prevail eventually.

I’m not sure what current LL clubs fall into the “Sugar Daddy” category, if any, but as I said it’s no reason to argue against an integrated Pyramid.

[Craig fae the Vale]

 

[lithgierose]

2 hours ago, A.M said:

Panic may not be the reasoned word , however what has changed in one season to cause a u-turn, the teams you mention met with Kelty last year and Kelty were the only ones to make the move.

If as you say 3 or 4 teams make the move to the EOS league then one of those teams will still be in that league 3 or 4 years down the line if only one promotion spot is available to the Lowland League .

Is that really what the fans want to watch ? If so fair enough , not for me personally

 

Might change if the eosl grows.might even be two promotions,one being via a play off ?

[BS7]

On 12/03/2018 at 01:28, BENJI BOY said:

B57..you seem to be well informed of what is to be tabled on the 21st....and seem to have been convinced by your source that it is the only way to for the club to go with the added bonus of the prospect of playing Dalkeith in the EoS and  that is a better carrot than playing the likes of quality teams like Linlithgow..,Boness or Penicuik...and the better teams in Fife and Tayside....The lure of automatic entry into the Big Scottish seems to colour a lot of fans judgement on the issue.....They seem to think that we will have a run like the last time and make mega bucks......which colours the gamble the club will take......So is it all about money..and has your source advised you whether the clubs two main Sugar Daddies are 100% behind the anticipated proposals and recommendations going to be put forward at the EGM........Finally..if its such a must for East junior clubs why isn't the most successful  club    with the best facilities on and off the park ..in the East..not leading the charge on this one.......they have met all the criteria for entry.

I’ve no special knowledge, but, I think there’s a clear lack of a vision in the Scottish juniors set up; I think there’s a different view in the east and west. I think it’s inevitable that the east of Scotland d league and the east juniors will intertwine into a cohesive league structure - I don’t know what will happen in the west; frankly I don’t think they do either.

if we end up with a lowland league place, a league cup and a non league cup for eos,sos, Lowland league and highland league sides replacing the junior cup it won’t be the worst outcome. A fixture list, and progression to our level. Yes, it works for me.

[Burnie_man]

The Southern Counties Cup consists of LL, EoS and SoS clubs.

[Van magic]

I’ve no special knowledge, but, I think there’s a clear lack of a vision in the Scottish juniors set up; I think there’s a different view in the east and west. I think it’s inevitable that the east of Scotland d league and the east juniors will intertwine into a cohesive league structure - I don’t know what will happen in the west; frankly I don’t think they do either.
if we end up with a lowland league place, a league cup and a non league cup for eos,sos, Lowland league and highland league sides replacing the junior cup it won’t be the worst outcome. A fixture list, and progression to our level. Yes, it works for me.

Dare to dream and your the an insider eh BS7 [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[GLENAFTON93]

51 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The Southern Counties Cup consists of LL, EoS and SoS clubs.

 I do hope your not comparing this to The Scottish Junior Cup or suggesting any comparison. 

[Burnie_man]

 I do hope your not comparing this to The Scottish Junior Cup or suggesting any comparison. 

No, they'll have the big Scottish as well.

[GLENAFTON93]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

No, they'll have the big Scottish as well.

 

Correct .

[Van magic]

The Bonnyrigg official website tells you who the two  Principal sponsors are and the boards round the park are companies from yester year who were regular sponsors and are now just stadium window dressing.....Individuals can sponsor players but that's as far as it goes now..I am afraid.....Hope this clears the point you raised......You are right that the club poo pood Kelty,s move last season.....whats changed somebody posted that there is big bucks available from the SFA.....THAT FOR ME SAYS IT ALL.

Boards round the park are from yester year are just stadium window dressing? Pretty sure some local business would love to hear your lies!
like the local glazer?
Local roofing company?
Local painter and decorator?
Local estate agents?
Local plumber?

Won’t name them publicly but if you manage to lay off the drams then have the big rants on here and Facebook you could go ask them ?mayb they are on here you never know!
And btw your allowed your opinion on this 100% me personally I’m on the fence at the moment but to come out with lies like that is wrong regardless opinions on the future of our great club

[Van magic]

Rather awkward the Rose would go to the trouble of having these sponsors on the website if they are just been there from yester year and only window dressing? Can mind the boards being around the pitch boundary railings in ‘yester year’ now they are up against the fence why go to such bother if they are simply just there for window dressing? Somethings just not adding up here is it mayb I’ll give the local family run glazer and local painter a wee call tomorrow ask if they are indeed sponsors or just got a board up from ‘yester year’ as it’s good ‘window dressing’ for the Rose......

[Che Dail]

7 hours ago, A.M said:

Panic may not be the reasoned word , however what has changed in one season to cause a u-turn, the teams you mention met with Kelty last year and Kelty were the only ones to make the move.

If as you say 3 or 4 teams make the move to the EOS league then one of those teams will still be in that league 3 or 4 years down the line if only one promotion spot is available to the Lowland League .

Is that really what the fans want to watch ? If so fair enough , not for me personally

 

I make it 9 east clubs looking to move next season, plus potentially Clydebank.

A few things happened in the season since the clubs met, including:

- Kelty left and became a licensed club

- Bo'ness  progressed plans for their Community led facility 

- The Junior Cup failed to attract a sponsor, and

- The SJFA issued a half-baked questionnaire before adding later that they would ask the SFA to change its Club Licensing  requirements so that members did not have to join the pyramid.

Will be really interesting to see where things are in 3 or 4 years time - especially if the West of Scotland league can be formed next season or the year after.

[boomtownhibby]

B57..you seem to be well informed of what is to be tabled on the 21st....and seem to have been convinced by your source that it is the only way to for the club to go with the added bonus of the prospect of playing Dalkeith in the EoS and  that is a better carrot than playing the likes of quality teams like Linlithgow..,Boness or Penicuik...and the better teams in Fife and Tayside....The lure of automatic entry into the Big Scottish seems to colour a lot of fans judgement on the issue.....They seem to think that we will have a run like the last time and make mega bucks......which colours the gamble the club will take......So is it all about money..and has your source advised you whether the clubs two main Sugar Daddies are 100% behind the anticipated proposals and recommendations going to be put forward at the EGM........Finally..if its such a must for East junior clubs why isn't the most successful  club    with the best facilities on and off the park ..in the East..not leading the charge on this one.......they have met all the criteria for entry.

The ramblings of a mad man....

[bendan]

8 hours ago, Che Dail said:

I make it 9 east clubs looking to move next season, plus potentially Clydebank.

 

Is this based on actual evidence? Seems highly unlikely to me.

[Doonhamer doon south]

17 hours ago, Gimme said:

17 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Think the smart thing would be give it another year and see how others go!

The biggest danger with that is that the league is then at capacity and you end up in EOS 2 with a number of other competitive sides.

Even if, inevitably, a EOS 2  is set up and running teams will settle to their respective appropriate level. This pyramid, over time, will improve year on year and clubs will rise and fall with it. If big junior clubs end up having to start life in an EOS 2, then they are likely to go on quite a winning run which, I think, can only be good for the club. Fans love a winning team. As a kelty fan said on one of these threads their crowds are up 20 or 30 per cent. 

This might be a case of the early bird catches the worm, and if so kelty and the like have done themselves a big favour.

[bendan]

36 minutes ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Even if, inevitably, a EOS 2  is set up and running teams will settle to their respective appropriate level. This pyramid, over time, will improve year on year and clubs will rise and fall with it. If big junior clubs end up having to start life in an EOS 2, then they are likely to go on quite a winning run which, I think, can only be good for the club. Fans love a winning team. As a kelty fan said on one of these threads their crowds are up 20 or 30 per cent. 

This might be a case of the early bird catches the worm, and if so kelty and the like have done themselves a big favour.

They have, though not as big a favour as BSC, Cumbernauld and EK have done for themselves. A fairly low level junior team could have been established in tier 5 by now if they'd moved two or three years ago.