Bankies nxt season

[Goalie Hamish]

On 3/4/2018 at 17:36, Che Dail said:

There are some decent financial incentives for clubs in the Lowland League.  This season:

£12k SFA membership payment to all licensed clubs.

£4k William Hill Scottish Cup R1 (minimum payment, prize money increases each round)

£10k split between top 3 clubs for Community Development

£10k split between top 3 clubs for 'fair play' 

£4k min for Irn Bru Cup entry (top 4 LL)

£20k min for Betfred Cup entry (winner of LL)

£50k payment from SPFL (min for promoted LL club, even if placed last in league)

The biggest carrot is the Scottish Cup.  Income well in excess of £100k for a good run with TV money is not an unreasonable expectation for current SL clubs if they make the switch.  

So even the smallest licensed clubs will earn more just for existing than Junior SL clubs can for winning the league.  

The pyramid is sponsored by business, the Junior cup is not.  Nor it seems are the Junior leagues to any meaningful degree, otherwise there would be an appropriate level of prize money for winning them and cups. 

8 years ago the SJFA could afford to support its clubs after a forced extended break, this year it can't, as reported on Saturday.  

The pyramid is open to everyone to join, but clubs have to do that bit themselves... you can lead a horse to water and all that.

For the benefit of Weegieboy, I'm sure he'll be able to contrast that with the benefits available for clubs remaining separate in the SJFA.

[parsforlife]

I`ve not demanded anything, I`ve asked by way of response to something posted by others. I`m not in the habit of playing chess with pigeons so this will be the last direct response that I waste on you. Read it carefully. THE DINOSAUR HUNTERS CONTINUALLY STATE THAT FOR THE MAJORITY OF JUNIOR CLUBS NOTHING WILL CHANGE BY JOINING THE PYRAMID. IF THAT REALLY IS THE CASE THEN WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY JOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE?  That`s a really simple and straightforward question now isn`t it?

Because things might not change today, maybe not tomorrow either, but it would be nice to know if start moving upwards no one is going to stop you progressing. Similarly if a full comprehensive pyramid comes in, and clubs may not like to think that it might be them but it would be good for clubs not to dissolve when they can't sustain themselves at junior level, they can seamlessly drop down to a local amateur league.

 

For the majority who are unlikely to finish as super league champions or at the bottom of the district leagues they might not see the relevance of pyramid discussions, but things change, the improvements at Kelty certainly expected for example.

 

Oh and go have a wee lie down you don't sound very stable

[Dipple burn]

10 hours ago, kenny131 said:

Think you have the wrong person Dipped a bum, vandalism at bots park I haven't mentioned anything of the sort or meltdown cool story though.

You should be proud that your playing surface is smooth like a fairway

Sorry M8 it was some rocket called kenny131 who posted a cartoon on the 15/1/18 of Tom the cat digging up a golf course just after it was announced that vandals had done the same to Beechwood. It got a green dot from some moron called The Shed.

[Robert James]

On 04/03/2018 at 11:57, Harry's Corner said:

On 04/03/2018 at 11:53, Robert James said:

Hello to Harry's Corner. You certainly have some energy !
The verbal exchanges about Clydebank and the club's announcement that it intends to join the seniors, has continued for far to long, and (dare I suggest) is now boring. Personally IMO it should take a new direction, by having some views as to whether:
* if it would be advantageous/viable for the Bankies to move to the EoSL (or SoSL) whilst Holm Park is being redeveloped ?
* is it intended that redevelopment will be completed by the spring/summer next year, thereby opening up a licensing possibility for the 2019/20 season 
* what impact would the club's decision to leave the Juniors have on other West clubs, if any ?
* why does the decision of one West club cause Junior devotees so much angst ?
* when will the results of the SJFA 'survey' be published and in what form ?
As a semi-retired correspondent about non league football, I am more interested in seeking views about the above, than I am about  listening to on-going junior -v- senior squabbles, especially as the pyramid is here to stay, and the Lowland League has been a success, albeit in very difficult circumstances at the outset.  
Clydebank's decision may be brave or foolish, but it is one that the club, with fans' support, is entitled to take, 
 
.
 

Sorry forgot to read after hello

Sincere apologies to Harry.  I didn't realise that my five questions would be too difficult for you, as you seem to be an 'expert' on junior football.

Therefore I will say "Goodbye Harry", and undertake not to a put you in such an embarrassing position again.  I am sure you will be very relieved that it is "Hello Goodbye" from me to you.  

[Harry's Corner]

Sincere apologies to Harry.  I didn't realise that my five questions would be too difficult for you, as you seem to be an 'expert' on junior football.
Therefore I will say "Goodbye Harry", and undertake not to a put you in such an embarrassing position again.  I am sure you will be very relieved that it is "Hello Goodbye" from me to you.  

I understand mate. Appreciate your concern [emoji23]

[The Moonster]

17 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

But I am frustrated at the pro pyramid people who cannot see the wood for the trees and kid themselves on that it is heading for some sort of  footballing Nirvana. 

Can you point me in the direction of anyone who has said this?

[Blackie Gold]

21 hours ago, The Moonster said:

They may well be well run, but it appears to have given their supporters some sort of god complex. In this thread alone I've seen them try and tell Bankies what's best for their club, tell the seniors what's best for their pyramid and tell the juniors what teams they'd be best accepting into their leagues. It's not a good look.

Before you rally the haters to your cause I think you will find not all posters have a god like complex, and definitely not the club. Anybody who has had any dealings with ATFC will find them to be a proud and noble club. This is a forum and the posters who relate to Talbot and are grinding your gears are not speaking for the vast majority of the support. However they are entitled to their views, but tarring us all with the same brush is totally unacceptable. 

[Blackie Gold]

3 minutes ago, Bigjimmcalpine said:

Imagine the bankies lads having the audacity to want to return senior and do the best for their club without the seal of approval from the Talbot punters on here ..............

It really is outrageous so it is...........

Hi! Shed hows it going you've had more comebacks than Gazza.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Can you point me in the direction of anyone who has said this?

My Sons of the Rock friend, no one actually used those words, it is an analogy, perhaps slightly exaggerated I concede but and attempt at using artistic licence to illustrate a point. Now that has been explained for you, if I may, can you inform us what your opinion is of the whole pyramid debacle? Do you concede that it is indeed a hasty self serving constructed  pile of p!sh, or are you with the Kurt Cobain mob?

[tell_me_more]

14 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

My Sons of the Rock friend, no one actually used those words, it is an analogy, perhaps slightly exaggerated I concede but and attempt at using artistic licence to illustrate a point. Now that has been explained for you, if I may, can you inform us what your opinion is of the whole pyramid debacle? Do you concede that it is indeed a hasty self serving constructed  pile of p!sh, or are you with the Kurt Cobain mob?

Big yin as it stands its the shape of urine or a pile of p whatever, for clubs in the west particularly Ayrshire its not even debatable and its been hard work trying to get that point across.
The options that were recently voted on by the clubs does allow acceptable progress for west clubs and I think it will come into play prob season 19/20.

 

[The Moonster]

12 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

My Sons of the Rock friend, no one actually used those words, it is an analogy, perhaps slightly exaggerated I concede but and attempt at using artistic licence to illustrate a point. Now that has been explained for you, if I may, can you inform us what your opinion is of the whole pyramid debacle? Do you concede that it is indeed a hasty self serving constructed  pile of p!sh, or are you with the Kurt Cobain mob?

If you want me debate with you can you try and not leave your posts dripping with condescension?

Nobody said those words, so how can there be a "Kurt Cobain mob" if nobody actually thinks it's Nirvana?  It seems to me the people you say are calling it the promise land are actually saying "it's not perfect, but what can we do to make it work?".  Some clubs have different views on how to do that - Talbot clearly think staying Junior and refusing to join the set up until it's fixed is the way forward, others like Clydebank see their future in the seniors and have come to the conclusion that whilst it's not perfect, the best way to influence change is to be part of it.

FWIW, the SFA and SJFA are both to blame for the situation we are in.  Both sides digging their heels in rather than coming to an amicable solution. There shouldn't be two different grades IMO, everyone under the same banner competing in the same system, everyone then finds their level and have the opportunity to achieve what they want to achieve. But, for as long as we have people on in the Juniors saying " we love being Junior and yer no stealing oor grade!" and people in the SFA saying "ah well, knock yerselves oot" then we'll continue down this path of clubs deciding what is best for themselves.  For Clydebank that means joining the seniors, for Talbot that means staying in the Juniors - quite why you and yer pal Harry have jumped all over this I have no idea.  Can you explain what you mean by the pyramid being self serving?

[Duraglit shareholder]

On 04/03/2018 at 17:36, Che Dail said:

There are some decent financial incentives for clubs in the Lowland League.  This season:

£12k SFA membership payment to all licensed clubs.

£4k William Hill Scottish Cup R1 (minimum payment, prize money increases each round)

£10k split between top 3 clubs for Community Development

£10k split between top 3 clubs for 'fair play' 

£4k min for Irn Bru Cup entry (top 4 LL)

£20k min for Betfred Cup entry (winner of LL)

£50k payment from SPFL (min for promoted LL club, even if placed last in league)

The biggest carrot is the Scottish Cup.  Income well in excess of £100k for a good run with TV money is not an unreasonable expectation for current SL clubs if they make the switch.  

So even the smallest licensed clubs will earn more just for existing than Junior SL clubs can for winning the league.  

The pyramid is sponsored by business, the Junior cup is not.  Nor it seems are the Junior leagues to any meaningful degree, otherwise there would be an appropriate level of prize money for winning them and cups. 

8 years ago the SJFA could afford to support its clubs after a forced extended break, this year it can't, as reported on Saturday.  

The pyramid is open to everyone to join, but clubs have to do that bit themselves... you can lead a horse to water and all that.

Would the money be diluted if more clubs joined the set up?

[kefc]

32 minutes ago, Duraglit shareholder said:

Would the money be diluted if more clubs joined the set up?

SFA Membership money possibly.

The rest no, as it’s rewards/prize money for being successful on the pitch available to everyone in the pyramid.

[Burnie_man]

16 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

For the benefit of Weegieboy, I'm sure he'll be able to contrast that with the benefits available for clubs remaining separate in the SJFA.

Looks like you might be waiting a wee while......

[Blackie Gold]

2 hours ago, Bigjimmcalpine said:

Hello dipple that was a record time for a bite even by your own standards , keep up the great detective work I thought I had them all fooled

I like the Kilbirnie Avitar...very sneaky

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

If you want me debate with you can you try and not leave your posts dripping with condescension?

Nobody said those words, so how can there be a "Kurt Cobain mob" if nobody actually thinks it's Nirvana?  It seems to me the people you say are calling it the promise land are actually saying "it's not perfect, but what can we do to make it work?".  Some clubs have different views on how to do that - Talbot clearly think staying Junior and refusing to join the set up until it's fixed is the way forward, others like Clydebank see their future in the seniors and have come to the conclusion that whilst it's not perfect, the best way to influence change is to be part of it.

FWIW, the SFA and SJFA are both to blame for the situation we are in.  Both sides digging their heels in rather than coming to an amicable solution. There shouldn't be two different grades IMO, everyone under the same banner competing in the same system, everyone then finds their level and have the opportunity to achieve what they want to achieve. But, for as long as we have people on in the Juniors saying " we love being Junior and yer no stealing oor grade!" and people in the SFA saying "ah well, knock yerselves oot" then we'll continue down this path of clubs deciding what is best for themselves.  For Clydebank that means joining the seniors, for Talbot that means staying in the Juniors - quite why you and yer pal Harry have jumped all over this I have no idea.  Can you explain what you mean by the pyramid being self serving?

Sorry my response has generated such disdain, I will endeavour to reply in a fashion more suitable to your sensibilities, however all the effort might result in it dripping in condensation, hope you don't mind.

The self serving reference is directed at some clubs, mainly from the East who's agenda was to get to the seniors, saw this as a gateway and were only too happy to get the deal done, regardless. This resulted in a pyramid system hastily constructed and dumbed down so much regarding criteria that clubs who are not appropriate got access. The only concession to non league being tier six which is over all of a very poor standard. Yes, you are right about the SJFA &  SFA, but ambitious EOSL clubs could hardly wait to get it done and dusted. The last thing they want is serious competition from Junior clubs, some that are in many ways much bigger. It should have been constructed so that below tier five was vibrant and progressive and tier five should have been stringent and rigorous, insuring the right standard of clubs who can bring something to the table as a senior, avoiding the making up the numbers situation we have now. It was poorly conceived and intentionally so by some of those behind it.  

You say Clydebank chose to join and affect change. I say for my club at the moment that is not an option as has been pointed out many times, I say that won't change as those with their feet under the table are happy as is. So that my Sons friend is why I am animated about this, and why I suggest that there is a school who do promote this dysfunctional midden as some sort of Nirvana, because for self serving, it probably is! 

[bendan]

1 hour ago, tell_me_more said:

Big yin as it stands its the shape of urine or a pile of p whatever, for clubs in the west particularly Ayrshire its not even debatable and its been hard work trying to get that point across.
The options that were recently voted on by the clubs does allow acceptable progress for west clubs and I think it will come into play prob season 19/20.

 

But the reason it's p*** for the west juniors is because they haven't co-operated so far. The options put forward are for the juniors to co-operate. They could have done that five years ago, but instead stood on the sidelines mocking those taking part.

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

The self serving reference is directed at some clubs, mainly from the East who's agenda was to get to the seniors, saw this as a gateway and were only too happy to get the deal done, regardless. This resulted in a pyramid system hastily constructed and dumbed down so much regarding criteria that clubs who are not appropriate got access. The only concession to non league being tier six which is over all of a very poor standard. Yes, you are right about the SJFA &  SFA, but ambitious EOSL clubs could hardly wait to get it done and dusted. The last thing they want is serious competition from Junior clubs, some that are in many ways much bigger. It should have been constructed so that below tier five was vibrant and progressive and tier five should have been stringent and rigorous, insuring the right standard of clubs who can bring something to the table as a senior, avoiding the making up the numbers situation we have now. It was poorly conceived and intentionally so by some of those behind it. 

Imagine if the SJFA and its top clubs had been open and engaged all those years ago instead of sitting in the corner chucking stones, we might have had a great set-up right from the start.

Talbot and most others are equally as culpable for where we are now, so your constant bleating cuts no ice because at the time you wanted no part of it. You reap what you sow.

[The Moonster]

11 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Sorry my response has generated such disdain, I will endeavour to reply in a fashion more suitable to your sensibilities, however all the effort might result in it dripping in condensation, hope you don't mind.

The self serving reference is directed at some clubs, mainly from the East who's agenda was to get to the seniors, saw this as a gateway and were only too happy to get the deal done, regardless. This resulted in a pyramid system hastily constructed and dumbed down so much regarding criteria that clubs who are not appropriate got access. The only concession to non league being tier six which is over all of a very poor standard. Yes, you are right about the SJFA &  SFA, but ambitious EOSL clubs could hardly wait to get it done and dusted. The last thing they want is serious competition from Junior clubs, some that are in many ways much bigger. It should have been constructed so that below tier five was vibrant and progressive and tier five should have been stringent and rigorous, insuring the right standard of clubs who can bring something to the table as a senior, avoiding the making up the numbers situation we have now. It was poorly conceived and intentionally so by some of those behind it.  

You say Clydebank chose to join and affect change. I say for my club at the moment that is not an option as has been pointed out many times, I say that won't change as those with their feet under the table are happy as is. So that my Sons friend is why I am animated about this, and why I suggest that there is a school who do promote this dysfunctional midden as some sort of Nirvana, because for self serving, it probably is! 

All clubs are self serving. You admit in your last paragraph that Talbot are looking out for themselves too. Nothing about the senior set-up currently stops Junior sides from applying other than "we don't want to because it's a shite league", unless there's some criteria I don't know about? That is self serving.

Honestly, you are the only guy I've heard (anywhere, not just on here) talk about the pyramid being some sort of stroke of genius or Nirvana as you keep saying.  I've literally never heard anyone say that. It's all in your head.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, bendan said:

But the reason it's p*** for the west juniors is because they haven't co-operated so far. The options put forward are for the juniors to co-operate. They could have done that five years ago, but instead stood on the sidelines mocking those taking part.

There is no doubt that there was an impasse, on both sides I would suggest. However, what seems to be conveniently forgotten is that at the time, the EOSL and the SOSL had everything to gain, but the Juniors, especially those at the top and especially from the west had an awful lot to loose, it then degenerated into a bun fight and the EOSL representatives horsed on with the proposals as was. There was no recognition of the Junior case and any relationship quickly disseminated.  So it is easy to condemned the Juniors, who were not innocent, but neither were those who rapidly moved the thing on regardless.

 

Can I ask, what options for the Juniors to cooperate do you refer to?