Sevco & Sellick colt teams maybe added to league 2

[Dons_1988]

Bob is struggling here

[strichener]

I don't agree with anyone using the number of fans that went to the Dumbarton v Rangers Colts Challenge cup match as indicative of the likely attendance. 

It would surely be better to look at the crowds that the Rangers Colts attracted in the later rounds.

[wastecoatwilly]

21 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Bob is struggling here

Bob is doing the bobbing bobbing.

[paulbrucerick]

Sorry to ask a pretty basic question, do the colt teams play against each other if this were to go ahead?

[BobWilliamson]

Still waiting on the downside to the League 2 clubs.

[BobWilliamson]

57 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Bob is struggling here

Not struggling at all.

I think people are conveniently bringing up a midweek game at Dumbarton. I said if the games are 3 pm on Saturday Rangers supporters in , for example , Peterhead would turn out. Anybody that has visited Peterhead would have to concede that. OK Albion Rovers in Coatbridge may be a little different 

Would it not be a helluva lot simpler to bring back a proper Reserve league. Would that be affordable for 10-12 clubs? 

TBH i am more than happy with the way the Under 20s are doing it right now. Playing the best development squads from around Europe.

[Dons_1988]

Still waiting on the downside to the League 2 clubs.

Read the thread

[PauloPerth]

2 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

Still waiting on the downside to the League 2 clubs.

You could try reading the thread then. Here's a few:

- League two club supporters see their place in Scottish football as being just as significant as every other club. This includes the OF and everyone else. They do not see their club or division as being an avenue for experiments by 2 big clubs who have proven over the years that they only look after their own interests.

- There is currently a loan system in place whereby lower league club supporters get to see exciting young players playing for their team, to enhance their side and to aid in the development of the player. Win win. Not win-fuckyou.

- Nobody really wants lots of knuckle dragging OF supporters turning up at their grounds and bringing all their bigoted nonsense with them. If they were interested in that, they could jump on the bandwagon and go along and support either of them, like so many in towns all over Scotland already do.

- League two currently operates like most other leagues: promotion/ relegation and play-offs. The proposal to drop in 2 clubs who are not living by the same rules, just makes a mess of the league. The team finishing third are now champions, or The team third bottom get relegated, whilst the two below stay put.

- After many years, we have finally got a pyramid structure, where ambitious clubs from the Highland/ Lowland league can win their place in the league set up purely on footballing merit. But never mind that, two clubs want to buy their way in.

I don't think you'll ever really understand to be honest, it's not in your typical old firm fans make up to see things from a smaller club's point of view. Say Manchester City and Chelsea reserve teams got to play in the Scottish Premiership, Its along those lines.

 

 

[BobWilliamson]

31 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

You could try reading the thread then. Here's a few:

- League two club supporters see their place in Scottish football as being just as significant as every other club. This includes the OF and everyone else. They do not see their club or division as being an avenue for experiments by 2 big clubs who have proven over the years that they only look after their own interests.

- There is currently a loan system in place whereby lower league club supporters get to see exciting young players playing for their team, to enhance their side and to aid in the development of the player. Win win. Not win-fuckyou.

- Nobody really wants lots of knuckle dragging OF supporters turning up at their grounds and bringing all their bigoted nonsense with them. If they were interested in that, they could jump on the bandwagon and go along and support either of them, like so many in towns all over Scotland already do.

- League two currently operates like most other leagues: promotion/ relegation and play-offs. The proposal to drop in 2 clubs who are not living by the same rules, just makes a mess of the league. The team finishing third are now champions, or The team third bottom get relegated, whilst the two below stay put.

- After many years, we have finally got a pyramid structure, where ambitious clubs from the Highland/ Lowland league can win their place in the league set up purely on footballing merit. But never mind that, two clubs want to buy their way in.

I don't think you'll ever really understand to be honest, it's not in your typical old firm fans make up to see things from a smaller club's point of view. Say Manchester City and Chelsea reserve teams got to play in the Scottish Premiership, Its along those lines.

 

 

1-Regarding individual clubs place. Too many supporters of the top clubs do have little regard for the smaller clubs. This is not unique to Old Firm clubs. Take Angus or Fife as  examples. I have heard many ask why these regions have 4 league  clubs.  Every so often the 'too many clubs; argument comes around and people say that 2 clubs per region is all they can sustain. That is just ignorance. Gayfield is one of my favourite away grounds. They are great wee clubs . OK the world would be a better place without Methil  right enough but that is another argument

2- The loan system has been pretty dreadful for Rangers recently. The players loaned out , for whatever reason , have performed poorly and i include Barrie McKay in that. Hardie and Walsh at St Mirren were pretty awful

3- I think the Chairman of the clubs would welcome in supporters of the Colt teams as they would all other visiting supporters. I didn't see many turning us away as we came up through the leagues. To be perfectly honest we were welcomed warmly where ever we went with Dunfermline being the only real exception

4-I agree with this. The system put forward is a bit of a mess and would need to be amended 

5- This proves that there is plenty of room for improvement.  The teams in the bottom tier held these ambitious clubs back for decades. It was scandalous that a team could finish bottom of the league 7 years in a row with no consequence 

6- You know absolutely nothing about my mindset. I have followed lower league football for many years and i used to go to at least 2 games a week(obviously 1 would be a Rangers game). I have been to every stadium in the Scottish League with only 2 exceptions..Annan and Ross County. Edinburgh City play at Meadowbank i believe and i was there to see Meadowbank Thistle many years ago so i am claiming that. Not every Rangers supporter is a narrow minded sash wearing bigot. 

At the end of the day if the League 2 clubs don't want this then it shouldn't happen. That goes without saying. 

League football at the top in this country is probably at an all time low (certainly in my lifetime) and something has to change. I don't have the answers but  TBH Rangers reserves playing Berwick Rangers is not going to fix that anytime soon.

 

ETA....FFS i have just realised i was answering a St Johnstone supporter. Believe me i know far more about lower league football than you ever will. Been there and done it!!

[PauloPerth]

15 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

1-Regarding individual clubs place. Too many supporters of the top clubs do have little regard for the smaller clubs. This is not unique to Old Firm clubs. Take Angus or Fife as  examples. I have heard many ask why these regions have 4 league  clubs.  Every so often the 'too many clubs; argument comes around and people say that 2 clubs per region is all they can sustain. That is just ignorance. Gayfield is one of my favourite away grounds. They are great wee clubs . OK the world would be a better place without Methil  right enough but that is another argument

2- The loan system has been pretty dreadful for Rangers recently. The players loaned out , for whatever reason , have performed poorly and i include Barrie McKay in that. Hardie and Walsh at St Mirren were pretty awful

3- I think the Chairman of the clubs would welcome in supporters of the Colt teams as they would all other visiting supporters. I didn't see many turning us away as we came up through the leagues. To be perfectly honest we were welcomed warmly where ever we went with Dunfermline being the only real exception

4-I agree with this. The system put forward is a bit of a mess and would need to be amended 

5- This proves that there is plenty of room for improvement.  The teams in the bottom tier held these ambitious clubs back for decades. It was scandalous that a team could finish bottom of the league 7 years in a row with no consequence 

6- You know absolutely nothing about my mindset. I have followed lower league football for many years and i used to go to at least 2 games a week(obviously 1 would be a Rangers game). I have been to every stadium in the Scottish League with only 2 exceptions..Annan and Ross County. Edinburgh City play at Meadowbank i believe and i was there to see Meadowbank Thistle many years ago so i am claiming that. Not every Rangers supporter is a narrow minded sash wearing bigot. 

At the end of the day if the League 2 clubs don't want this then it shouldn't happen. That goes without saying. 

League football at the top in this country is probably at an all time low (certainly in my lifetime) and something has to change. I don't have the answers but  TBH Rangers reserves playing Berwick Rangers is not going to fix that anytime soon.

 

ETA....FFS i have just realised i was answering a St Johnstone supporter. Believe me i know far more about lower league football than you ever will. Been there and done it!!

St Johnstone haven't always been the all-conquering European giants they are now. Plenty of taste of lower leagues, and not just in the novelty season win-every-game-then-get-promoted style!

A lot of your arguments above seem to suggest you're not really for this Colts thing either, so I'm not sure where you stand on it.

[John MacLean]

10 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

1-Regarding individual clubs place. Too many supporters of the top clubs do have little regard for the smaller clubs. This is not unique to Old Firm clubs. Take Angus or Fife as  examples. I have heard many ask why these regions have 4 league  clubs.  Every so often the 'too many clubs; argument comes around and people say that 2 clubs per region is all they can sustain. That is just ignorance. Gayfield is one of my favourite away grounds. They are great wee clubs . OK the world would be a better place without Methil  right enough but that is another argument

Who makes the argument about their being "too many clubs"? Not anyone I know or anyone with the basic grasp of Scottish football. This resentment surrounding the proposal isn't based on rangers and celtic having little regard for smaller clubs. It's about them exploiting smaller clubs for their own, nobody else's, benefit. 

2- The loan system has been pretty dreadful for Rangers recently. The players loaned out , for whatever reason , have performed poorly and i include Barrie McKay in that. Hardie and Walsh at St Mirren were pretty awful

Big deal. The loan system is hit and miss as is utilising the transfer market. The proposal does away with the Emergency Loan system. It would in effect restrict the ability of other clubs to loan players and for other clubs to benefit from the loan system to the same degree that they can do now. 

3- I think the Chairman of the clubs would welcome in supporters of the Colt teams as they would all other visiting supporters. I didn't see many turning us away as we came up through the leagues. To be perfectly honest we were welcomed warmly where ever we went with Dunfermline being the only real exception

Again what relevance does the away support that the rangers first team carry have with the support their cold team would get and how welcome they be. There would be no benefit if the number of rangers colt fans was smaller than the number of fans of the home side that choose not to watch a colt team. 

4-I agree with this. The system put forward is a bit of a mess and would need to be amended 

5- This proves that there is plenty of room for improvement.  The teams in the bottom tier held these ambitious clubs back for decades. It was scandalous that a team could finish bottom of the league 7 years in a row with no consequence 

How do you feel about two teams potentially bypassing the pyramid system and being dropped in at League Two level while ambitious non-league sights scrap for the right to earn a place in the SPFL. Is that any less scandalous? 

6- You know absolutely nothing about my mindset. I have followed lower league football for many years and i used to go to at least 2 games a week(obviously 1 would be a Rangers game). I have been to every stadium in the Scottish League with only 2 exceptions..Annan and Ross County. Edinburgh City play at Meadowbank i believe and i was there to see Meadowbank Thistle many years ago so i am claiming that. Not every Rangers supporter is a narrow minded sash wearing bigot. 

Edinburgh City don't play at Meadowbank Stadium. Your great lower league knowledge has let you down there. No, not every rangers fan is a "sash wearing bigot" but those that still pay to watch them in the knowledge that a sizeable portion of their fellow supporters are clearly condone that type of fan and their behaviour. 

At the end of the day if the League 2 clubs don't want this then it shouldn't happen. That goes without saying. 

They don't. 

League football at the top in this country is probably at an all time low (certainly in my lifetime) and something has to change. I don't have the answers but  TBH Rangers reserves playing Berwick Rangers is not going to fix that anytime soon.

Why is it an an all time low? 

ETA....FFS i have just realised i was answering a St Johnstone supporter. Believe me i know far more about lower league football than you ever will. Been there and done it!!

Spending your way up the leagues for a few seasons doesn't give you any insight into the struggles and challenges of lower league football. 

 

[BobWilliamson]

1 minute ago, PauloPerth said:

St Johnstone haven't always been the all-conquering European giants they are now. Plenty of taste of lower leagues, and not just in the novelty season win-every-game-then-get-promoted style!

A lot of your arguments above seem to suggest you're not really for this Colts thing either, so I'm not sure where you stand on it.

I said right from the start i am not fussed either way. I am happy with the way our development squad are doing things right now and would like to see us going with that for a year or two.

I was asked to list the positives and i did. Some seem to have jumped in believing i am all for the Colt teams entering the lower leagues. I would only be for that if it was to benefit the lower league clubs and with their backing. 

I sit with Rangers supporters every second week and know exactly what many of them are like. That does not mean we are all the same.

Oh and i know about St Johnstone. I went to my first ever Rangers game at the old Muirton Park. That was very early 70s. For some reason , no idea why, my old man took me there quite often. 

[BobWilliamson]

3 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

 

Your hatred shines through.

Not worth replying

[DA Baracus]

Delighted to hear that we didn't give Sevco a warm welcome.

Hopefully this will be the same should they ever come to East End Park again.

[John MacLean]

8 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

Your hatred shines through.

Not worth replying

My hatred shines through?  What a sad pathetic man you are. 

I hate bigotry in whatever shape it comes in. I hate those that practice bigotry and I have no regard at all for those that choose to turn a blind eye (or ear) to it. You know some of your fellow rangers fans are slavering bigots but choose nonetheless to sit amongst them. I guess I just have a different set of values to you. That's probably why ibrox, a stadium in my home city, feels like a different world to me. One that I don't understand or have any wish to understand. 

[BobWilliamson]

Just now, DA Baracus said:

Delighted to hear that we didn't give Sevco a warm welcome.

Hopefully this will be the same should they ever come to East End Park again.

We still enjoyed our lunch in the Pitfirrane Arms and our steak bridies from the Butchers whose name escapes me (Stuarts maybe)

[Dunning1874]

You've consistently dodged the point when it's been made as a part of larger posts so I'll ask it in isolation.

What makes you think there will be an increase in crowds in League Two if B teams are in the league, when the only evidence we have to go on is the appalling attendances these sides had in the Challenge Cup?

[Ira Gaines]

43 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

1-Regarding individual clubs place. Too many supporters of the top clubs do have little regard for the smaller clubs. This is not unique to Old Firm clubs. Take Angus or Fife as  examples. I have heard many ask why these regions have 4 league  clubs.  Every so often the 'too many clubs; argument comes around and people say that 2 clubs per region is all they can sustain. That is just ignorance. Gayfield is one of my favourite away grounds. They are great wee clubs . OK the world would be a better place without Methil  right enough but that is another argument

2- The loan system has been pretty dreadful for Rangers recently. The players loaned out , for whatever reason , have performed poorly and i include Barrie McKay in that. Hardie and Walsh at St Mirren were pretty awful

3- I think the Chairman of the clubs would welcome in supporters of the Colt teams as they would all other visiting supporters. I didn't see many turning us away as we came up through the leagues. To be perfectly honest we were welcomed warmly where ever we went with Dunfermline being the only real exception

 

1. The clubs at the top have no respect for the lower leagues either. Hence why they feel that they can just throw a wee bribe about to get what they want.

2. The reason the loan system didn't work too well for Rangers is because they've been run by charlatans from the boardroom to the dugout from the very beginning. That, and the players weren't particularly good. Barrie McKay could be better if he wasn't a massive shitebag, but he is.

3. Of course chairmen would welcome the supporters. The few of them that turn out that is.

As for the "all time low", even if that were true, there's f**k all colt teams could do about that, other than give Rangers and Celtic reason to hoover up more youth players from other clubs, providing a direct negative. The change we need is in our football authorities. Not on the pitch.

[BobWilliamson]

1 minute ago, John MacLean said:

My hatred shines through?  What a sad pathetic man you are. 

I hate bigotry in whatever shape it comes in. I hate those that practice bigotry and I have no regard at all for those that choose to turn a blind eye (or ear) to it. You know some of your fellow rangers fans are slavering bigots but choose nonetheless to sit amongst them. I guess I just have a different set of values to you. That's probably why ibrox, a stadium in my home city, feels like a different world to me. One that I don't understand or have any wish to understand. 

Sad?  Nope.

Pathetic? I hope not.

Turn a blind eye to bigotry? Nope but how would you know what i have done or said to the bigots? Believe me i am not a turning a blind eye kind of person.

I wont attempt to defend the clubs past. I couldn't and nor would i want to. At times i have been ashamed of the support and their behaviour. There are times i wish i could support a different club such as Stirling Albion or Queens Park but any real football supporter will know you just cant change clubs. I know some have and good luck to them but i just couldn't / wouldn't have the same passion for any other club

[PauloPerth]

19 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

I said right from the start i am not fussed either way. I am happy with the way our development squad are doing things right now and would like to see us going with that for a year or two.

I was asked to list the positives and i did. Some seem to have jumped in believing i am all for the Colt teams entering the lower leagues. I would only be for that if it was to benefit the lower league clubs and with their backing. 

I sit with Rangers supporters every second week and know exactly what many of them are like. That does not mean we are all the same.

Oh and i know about St Johnstone. I went to my first ever Rangers game at the old Muirton Park. That was very early 70s. For some reason , no idea why, my old man took me there quite often. 

Ok. But I thought the league two clubs voted on this a while back and didn't want it, which is why the offer of a financial incentive is being waved in front of them now.