West Juniors

[Hillonearth]

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

I'd actually say that there is some top quality debate overall on this subject in here (with some exceptions), together with information sharing, fact checking and frankly, myth busting.  There is plenty of knowledge on here, on both sides.

It would be a bit bizarre if any of that would actually discourage individuals or clubs from the idea of joining the Pyramid.  If it does, then they really weren't up for it in the first place.

One thing is for sure, there is more constructive debate on here than you'll ever hear at an SJFA meeting at national or regional level. That has to be a good thing.

 

I didn't mean they'd be actively discouraged, more that it's unlikely to actually influence anyone. Perhaps understandably, there are some for whom the current pace of change is frustratingly glacial and who are venting their feelings on here accordingly.

Integration WILL eventually happen...the genie's left the bottle and isn't going back in. The pace of its implementation will only pick up however once there's a solution in place that suits more than the minority of clubs it currently does.

[clash city rocker]

24 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I must admit in large part I don't recognise the picture of the Juniors that's being painted by some of the pyramid-at-all-costs echo chamber on here

Of course there are some teams we could name that struggle for crowds, play in crumbling grounds and are kept going by a few old guys in a less than up to date fashion - in an organisation of 160-odd clubs, wouldn't it be more surprising were there not?

For every one of those though there are several who are playing in front of healthy and enthusiastic crowds, are actively looking to upgrade their surroundings and are being run by people who are by and large more receptive to new ideas and forward-thinking than they're being given credit for.

It has to be said however that no amount of exasperated foot-stomping and caricaturing as a grade of 1950s throwbacks on here is likely to encourage some of those club custodians to commit to something that as things stand in all likelihood would not be in the best interests of their clubs though.

Ultimately, the main issue  - obviously not in the East, but certainly in the West and North - is the current pyramid system not being fit for purpose, with teams reluctant to take a step that could potentially be ruinous to them - Clydebank are a slightly anomalous case in as much as a significant proportion of their fanbase has always hankered after a return to senior football - had a LL existed ten or twelve years ago I suspect that would have been where they attempted to re-enter the game...however at the time they did, the Junior route was the only realistic one open to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yip many West clubs Pollok , Kilbirnie , Talbot , Beith , Cumnock etc have spent heavily upgrading facilities , upgrading playing surface , have healthy support and despite not being in receipt of SFA handouts can still afford to pay wages higher than Lowland League. People say they should just embrace the pyramid , accept the SoS league is where its all happening but many many fans of these clubs are simply not having it. The West Region is a strong competitive exciting set up which attracts a decent level of player and is played to a pretty damn good standard. There is much work to be done if these clubs are to be convinced that leaving their environment is for the good of their health.

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

Yip many West clubs Pollok , Kilbirnie , Talbot , Beith , Cumnock etc have spent heavily upgrading facilities , upgrading playing surface , have healthy support and despite not being in receipt of SFA handouts can still afford to pay wages higher than Lowland League. People say they should just embrace the pyramid , accept the SoS league is where its all happening but many many fans of these clubs are simply not having it. The West Region is a strong competitive exciting set up which attracts a decent level of player and is played to a pretty damn good standard. There is much work to be done if these clubs are to be convinced that leaving their environment is for the good of their health.

If there was integration I'd expect SoS to ask to go in lower down.

[honestly united]

33 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I must admit in large part I don't recognise the picture of the Juniors that's being painted by some of the pyramid-at-all-costs echo chamber on here

Of course there are some teams we could name that struggle for crowds, play in crumbling grounds and are kept going by a few old guys in a less than up to date fashion - in an organisation of 160-odd clubs, wouldn't it be more surprising were there not?

For every one of those though there are several who are playing in front of healthy and enthusiastic crowds, are actively looking to upgrade their surroundings and are being run by people who are by and large more receptive to new ideas and forward-thinking than they're being given credit for.

It has to be said however that no amount of exasperated foot-stomping and caricaturing as a grade of 1950s throwbacks on here is likely to encourage some of those club custodians to commit to something that as things stand in all likelihood would not be in the best interests of their clubs though.

Ultimately, the main issue  - obviously not in the East, but certainly in the West and North - is the current pyramid system not being fit for purpose, with teams reluctant to take a step that could potentially be ruinous to them - Clydebank are a slightly anomalous case in as much as a significant proportion of their fanbase has always hankered after a return to senior football - had a LL existed ten or twelve years ago I suspect that would have been where they attempted to re-enter the game...however at the time they did, the Junior route was the only realistic one open to them.

 

 

Tbf i quite agree that at present, the west and also the north is not fit purpose for the future - it is perfectly adequate for the clubs that want to play in it t present, however until there is a will for more juniors clubs, of the SJFA as a whole to intergrate then there is no need to change. As has been said, nobody is going to start a WoS league until there are clubs available and willing to join, its a chicken and egg, the clubs in the west need to drive the formation of the league.

Until clubs in the west put there hands up, and say they want it nothing is going to happen 

[Dipple burn]

8 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Talbot people who are allegedly not against a Pyramid seem reluctant to address this point.

 

Your the man! Why don't Blackburn make the jump. 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Dipple burn said:

Your the man! Why don't Blackburn make the jump. 

*You're

You go first.

[Dipple burn]

10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

*You're

You go first.

I've asked you twice. If you are wanting to promote the pyramid why is Blackburn not taking the lead. You want me to call out my club but apart from yourself I have never seen Blackburn mentioned.

[santheman]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

I don't recall too much name calling, although probably the biggest insult so far was a thread started specifically to be derogatory towards a Junior club who have decided to leave and seek a Licence in another league, a thread which you appeared to like.

As for BSC's proposal, it remains to be seen what it entails although I doubt community club recognition plays any part in it, why would it.   That said, if places are limited then I'd like to think that those clubs who are wanting to gain a Licence and are in the best position to do so would be given preference, only natural. You're not going to start a new league where 90% of members wont or cant be Licenced and therefore ineligible for promotion to the LL.

I wonder what Isa thinks.......

Typical Burnie boy response.

You mean the two greenies in response to comments about the inadequacies of the current pyramid on the thread? Hardly showing disrespect to Dalkeith or agreeing with Isa. 

You gave a greenie to someone who made a bigoted and sectarian comment towards me on the same thread  but he's in your camp so that must be ok. 

So am I correct in thinking then that you only want clubs who would be eligible to join the LL to apply for any  new West League.

The rest of the clubs can go fester and die presumably.

[Burnie_man]

51 minutes ago, Dipple burn said:

I've asked you twice. If you are wanting to promote the pyramid why is Blackburn not taking the lead. You want me to call out my club but apart from yourself I have never seen Blackburn mentioned.

You and Isa are the ones claiming not to be against the Pyramid on one hand, whilst moaning about it on the other, so the question is (to repeat) a simple one.  Are you lobbying your club to lead the way or at least get involved with seeing if a WoSFL can be formed? if you are not anti-Pyramid then the formation of a WoSFL would be an ideal solution to Talbot's desire to become Licenced whilst largely playing the same clubs as you do now.  On you go.

I've mentioned it on here plenty of times that I'm not on the committee of my club, but as a fan I'd like to see them move to the EoSFL and become Licenced, play in the Scottish Cup and move forward. The club know that, but it's upto them, I don't speak for them.

[Burnie_man]

52 minutes ago, santheman said:

Typical Burnie boy response.

You mean the two greenies in response to comments about the inadequacies of the current pyramid on the thread? Hardly showing disrespect to Dalkeith or agreeing with Isa. 

You gave a greenie to someone who made a bigoted and sectarian comment towards me on the same thread  but he's in your camp so that must be ok. 

So am I correct in thinking then that you only want clubs who would be eligible to join the LL to apply for any  new West League.

The rest of the clubs can go fester and die presumably.

Behave yourself, perhaps you can point out where I liked a bigoted and sectarian comment?  meanwhile, you're quite happy for a fellow member club to be slagged for having the audacity to try and better themselves, sums you up frankly.

A West League will be what it will be depending on how many apply, are you saying that all West clubs will apply? great, in which case the whole region can simply resign from the SJFA and become a senior league set-up as is and everyone is in.  If not, and only a few apply then its all down to numbers and the set-up would be moulded accordingly to suit.

[Dipple burn]

10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

You and Isa are the ones claiming not to be against the Pyramid on one hand, whilst moaning about it on the other, so the question is (to repeat) a simple one.  Are you lobbying your club to lead the way or at least get involved with seeing if a WoSFL can be formed? if you are not anti-Pyramid then the formation of a WoSFL would be an ideal solution to Talbot's desire to become Licenced whilst largely playing the same clubs as you do now.  On you go.

I've mentioned it on here plenty of times that I'm not on the committee of my club, but as a fan I'd like to see them move to the EoSFL and become Licenced, play in the Scottish Cup and move forward. The club know that, but it's upto them, I don't speak for them.

Isa and myself are not on the Talbot committee. We are supporters.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Dipple burn said:

Isa and myself are not on the Talbot committee. We are supporters.

Just like me,  and I can make my views known to those that are on the committee.   So what's you're opinion on Talbots approach to a WoSFL?

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, gogsy said:

To be fair if some muppet has made a sectarian and bigoted comment to santheman then he should report them to the mods and let them deal with it. Anybody making sectarian or bigoted comments really should be banned from forum in my opinion.

Totally, can't say I've seen any.

[Dipple burn]

55 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Just like me,  and I can make my views known to those that are on the committee.   So what's you're opinion on Talbots approach to a WoSFL?

Honestly don't know.

[clash city rocker]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Behave yourself, perhaps you can point out where I liked a bigoted and sectarian comment?  meanwhile, you're quite happy for a fellow member club to be slagged for having the audacity to try and better themselves, sums you up frankly.

A West League will be what it will be depending on how many apply, are you saying that all West clubs will apply? great, in which case the whole region can simply resign from the SJFA and become a senior league set-up as is and everyone is in.  If not, and only a few apply then its all down to numbers and the set-up would be moulded accordingly to suit.

The whole region resigning and becoming a senior set up would do me. None of this after you one at a time nonsense , do it together.

[Glenconner]

7 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

The whole region resigning and becoming a senior set up would do me. None of this after you one at a time nonsense , do it together.

Mob handed, just hunt the Lowland League?

[theshed]

Mob handed, just hunt the Lowland League?

Nope no hunting of the lowland league required at all , junior teams in the west could fit into a west region league that is a tier below the lowland league and highland league just as the current east of Scotland and south of Scotland league's are , get a north region league on board and that gives us four tiers perfectly geographically split in the 4 regions in compass terms , four respective league winners in semi finals and onto a final with the winner going into the LL or HL ( west , east ,south of Scotland winner into LL or north winner into highland league ) Relegated LL team into league that suits geographically and relegated HL team into north tier below .

Simple [emoji2]I would take most west league teams ( top juniors ) to win a four team playoff against most teams from north , south and east league's .

[San Starko Rover]

Nope no hunting of the lowland league required at all , junior teams in the west could fit into a west region league that is a tier below the lowland league and highland league just as the current east of Scotland and south of Scotland league's are , get a north region league on board and that gives us four tiers perfectly geographically split in the 4 regions in compass terms , four respective league winners in semi finals and onto a final with the winner going into the LL or HL ( west , east ,south of Scotland winner into LL or north winner into highland league ) Relegated LL team into league that suits geographically and relegated HL team into north tier below .

 

Simple [emoji2]I would take most west league teams ( top juniors ) to win a four team playoff against most teams from north , south and east league's .

 

Have you considered taking over running the SFA? as that’s more sensible than anything they or the SJFA will come up with. Only thing I’d change would be more promotion so 2 places rather than 1. North, East, South and West random draw both winners go up to HL/LL. After say 10 years I’d then look to split lowland into East/West with SFL 2 having one automatic relegation and their 9th placed team entering a playoff with HL/LLE/LLW again two winners enter league 2 and look at a way to integrate SoS and WoS so we have West auto promotion into LLW, East Auto promotion into LLE and North auto promotion into HL

[theshed]

Have you considered taking over running the SFA? as that’s more sensible than anything they or the SJFA will come up with. Only thing I’d change would be more promotion so 2 places rather than 1. North, East, South and West random draw both winners go up to HL/LL. After say 10 years I’d then look to split lowland into East/West with SFL 2 having one automatic relegation and their 9th placed team entering a playoff with HL/LLE/LLW again two winners enter league 2.

No I'm too sensible to be near the SFA [emoji39]

It's just a rough draft the one I proposed but we already have east and south league's In the tier below the LL and HL so surely logically thinking west and north league's should follow to give four league's of equal standing in our four geographical compass points , this is a must for me and if the basics of this are In place then the follow on suggestions like you say would all probably enhance the concept .

Dont stop at junior and get the amateur teams involved with a possible passage too if they have the ambition , that in my opinion would be a real pyramid and far better than the half baked stuff we have at present , the cream of the west juniors currently have no carrot being dangled with the south of Scotland league , the creation of a new west of Scotland league via pyramid would be a huge game changer , wouldn't fancy being left behind if a few top dogs went for it , stand at the bus stop or get on the bus ?

[San Starko Rover]

Totally agree with the Amateurs joining too but as ever the problem is who should set up a WoS and NoS league, obvious answer is SFA and SJFA but we are where we are because these two can’t sit down and sort out a plan so I fear it’s going to have to be the clubs in the way BSC proposed although their reserve team and other colt teams can GTF. I’d like to see Banks O Dee make some noise about joining as I think they might force the SFA to do something if the HL refuse them entry again.