Dalkeith, next Junior giant to take the plunge.

[pie n beans]

4 hours ago, Dreghorn said:

For a club like Dalkeith moving to the Seniors makes sense.  They are going nowhere fast in the junior ranks.  They are likely to get into the Lowland League, will attract some ex seniors and are quite capable of challenging at some point for the title.  What they will find is that revenue will decline and that they will need both a financial backer and a hard working committee to progress.  If not they face obscurity.  Big risk.  The plain fact is that the Lowland League gets a fair bit of publicity in the East, just about the same as the Juniors.

in the West there is no equivalent.  Junior football predominates but even there and in particular Glasgow it is on its last legs.  While Ayrshire still has some very good supported clubs the Glasgow teams are shrinking in stature one by one.  Very few of any size remain.  Pollock and Arthulie remain strong but the majority have now settled for community club status playing on plastic pitches in grounds with no atmosphere and even less support.  Others on the outskirts are slightly better.

As was said in this thread there is no room for 2 feeder leagues in Scotland.  The major junior clubs would dominate any version of a Lowland or Southern League very quickly.  The pyramid system in England has been very successful in allowing clubs to progress upwards.  As a result look at the quality of non league grounds there.  Improvement in ground and playing standards is the outcome.  If Talbot, Glens, Buffs and Pollok want to stay as big fish in a small pond then they could still do so by refusing to take promotion to the Scottish Second Division.  They cite travel distances as a major consideration but frequently enjoy away days in the Scottish like we all do.

Whether you agree with this view I think we can all agree that change has to come to protect the whole of the junior brigade.   Clubs should instruct their SJFA delegates to get that organisation to enter into a proper series of discussions with the SFA and find a solution to save junior football from obscurity.

Your comment about them getting into the lowland league is way off, Dalkeith are no Kelty they are in the bottom half of the Premier, unless you can take a team to the EOS that has a great chance to go up first time i.e. Kelty then you will really suffer financially, if just say Bo'ness Linlithgow jump then Dalkeith would have made a massive mistake, as being stuck in the EOS would be a nightmare and better where they are. IMO

[pie n beans]

Sorry but Dalkeith are no junior giant Isabel

[newcastle broon]

9 minutes ago, pie n beans said:

Sorry but Dalkeith are no junior giant Isabel

He was taking the piss mate 

[Che Dail]

40 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Och, yer trying to be a wee smarty pants again. Bless, least your trying. 

Not at all, just trying to help. Is there a library in the village? Just ask the person at the counter to help 

[newcastle broon]

4 hours ago, Dreghorn said:

  What they will find is that revenue will decline and that they will need both a financial backer and a hard working committee to progress.  If not they face obscurity.  Big risk.  The plain fact is that the Lowland League gets a fair bit of publicity in the East, just about the same as the Juniors.

 

WW have no financial backer, they do have a hard working committee,  and if I'm not mistaken are a million miles away from obscurity bud 

Good luck Dalkeith I say. 

[kenny131]

37 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Well Kenny, your yearning for the Talbot demise is relentless. Never mind go and get yourself some Andrex fella and have a day dream, or more appropriately a wet dream, and imagine Talbot in obscurity. That’s as close as you’ll get to your ultimate fantasy. 

What you slobbering about fat man,  I was replying to your horseshit post. Suck it up as it's happening whether you like it or not all the top teams in the west will be sucked into the pyramid when it happens you will go from top of the juniors to bottom feeder like the rest of us.

[The Mantis]

36 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

WW have no financial backer, they do have a hard working committee,  and if I'm not mistaken are a million miles away from obscurity bud 

Good luck Dalkeith I say. 

Could have a derby back soon too 

[kleptomaniac]

For change to come someone had to start the ball rolling. Kelty did that last season and Dalkeith are making a move that is right for them at this time. Giants or not is irrelevant, however, it is a bold move and now others are really starting to take an interest.

Remember no one had heard of Marc Bosman before he started his court case and look what happened there.

Oh and Isa whenever you say “no disrespect” you mean exactly the opposite.

[FairWeatherFan]

Are there any possible West Region equivalents to Dalkeith that might consider a move to the SoSFL? Say a club with the basic facilities that obtaining a SFA Licence wouldn't be a financial strain and has bounced around the Ayrshire District/Super First so aren't necessarily concerned about crowds/standards.

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

For change to come someone had to start the ball rolling. Kelty did that last season and Dalkeith are making a move that is right for them at this time. Giants or not is irrelevant, however, it is a bold move and now others are really starting to take an interest.

Remember no one had heard of Marc Bosman before he started his court case and look what happened there.

Oh and Isa whenever you say “no disrespect” you mean exactly the opposite.

Some would say the phrase "no disrespect" in its common usage is an OXYMORON. No disrespect.

[Shanner]

5 minutes ago, kleptomaniac said:

For change to come someone had to start the ball rolling. Kelty did that last season and Dalkeith are making a move that is right for them at this time. Giants or not is irrelevant, however, it is a bold move and now others are really starting to take an interest.

Remember no one had heard of Marc Bosman before he started his court case and look what happened there.

Oh and Isa whenever you say “no disrespect” you mean exactly the opposite.
 

Yep, big hitters or not, every single club that chooses to leave the Junior grade weakens the Juniors and bolsters the argument that the  Pyramid as the future. 

For fans in the West it's all happening at another bit of the Junior goldfish bowl, for now, but it clearly isn't that far fetched that the ripples caused by the sides leaving will influence  West ones into giving it serious thought of their own.  We're looking at the beginning of the end of the Junior grade having  anything like as prominent a profile as it does now. 

[Che Dail]

3 minutes ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

Some would say the phrase "no disrespect" in its common usage is an OXYMORON. No disrespect.

Well, I thought about that. But I think "No disrespect" shortly followed by that passage of oafish tripe is probably a contradiction rather than an oxymoron. With all due respect.

[The Mantis]

Isa can disrespect me all he likes, we've had some decent discussions in the past. As for the 'my good man' patter though... 

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

Well, I thought about that. But I think "No disrespect" shortly followed by that passage of oafish tripe is probably a contradiction rather than an oxymoron. With all due respect.

Did my usage of "no disrespect" not shortly follow on from my passage of oafish tripe? As opposed to shortly followed by. With no disrespect x

[RobM]

8 hours ago, sponsorsladdie said:

Moving to a league where there’s a fixture list that allows you to plan ahead, allows access to a license if the works put in which in turn brings in income, playing at a level with more chance of assistant referees and allows the chance to progress.

Travel costs would also likely be lower for them.

Or

Stick with the juniors where you get a weeks notice for games, making math sponsorship harder, prize money is non existent (biggest tournaments have no sponsor), most lower league junior games have no linesmen and also some Scottish cup games.

The SJFA/SFA need to sit down and do some proper thinking around this.

In a country our size having two different associations is a nonsense.

Something along the lines of 2 national leagues of 16, a combined west region (west juniors and SOS) multiple levels and further geographical split may keep costs down), same in the east and north. Round robin by the 3 league winners and top team goes up with bottom team down and 2nd place plays off against second bottom. Clubs should also be able to opt out of promotion at the start of each season. The licensing also needs to be reviewed as part of this, there should be a national license along the lines of how it’s written today but that doesn’t work for smaller clubs trying to better them selves. Entry level should also be tiered to reflect the small clubs that are part time and run by volunteers. With entry level gold required if a club wishes to be promoted

The Sat Amateurs should also be included.

Keep the Scottish and league cup, a non league cup covering the regions and each region can add in a cup or 2 where desired.

Otherwise I don’t see how a number of clubs can continue to survive how our grade is. The biggest issue is that everyone votes on self interest and the tail tends to wag the dug.

Aye, the tail in junior football will indeed wag the Old Firm.

Are you attempting to be remotely serious here?

See when self-interest is that you get to go out and watch competitive football on a weekly basis then that is worth protecting.  The pyramid at the moment is a laughable concept, it will I'd guess probably become a bit sturdier but what with Dalkeith in and Craigroyston and Easthouses out it's all a bit like that old Mike Reid kids show Runaround at the moment.  Suits some, not all.

Clubs in Scottish football have come and clubs have gone, by and large if you have a viable one they survive at the level they play at.  The pyramid isn't going to change that.  Given the leagues inability to ensure two teams in the top tier were adequately stewarded they aren't really going to give a toss about the 'Land leagues are they?

 

[Che Dail]

48 minutes ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

Did my usage of "no disrespect" not shortly follow on from my passage of oafish tripe? As opposed to shortly followed by. With no disrespect x

I can't find that nowhere. No offence unintended.

[energyzone]

Well Kenny, your yearning for the Talbot demise is relentless. Never mind go and get yourself some Andrex fella and have a day dream, or more appropriately a wet dream, and imagine Talbot in obscurity. That’s as close as you’ll get to your ultimate fantasy. 

He has a point though. Talbot have the most to lose from pyramid integration - they'd go from top dog to just another club. It's not as if there is an abundance of people in that area who haven't attached themselves to clubs - Talbot have pretty much corralled everyone in Auchinleck, Catrine, Mauchline etc, so there isn't much room for expansion support-wise.

[Killiepiyo]

2 hours ago, energyzone said:

5 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

 

He has a point though. Talbot have the most to lose from pyramid integration 

fixtures, chance of league two playoffs, in the big Scottish every year, top 6 get into the betfred, grants, (floodlights ) etc... with a decent ground that has a large already established fan base that draws from surrounding areas... I’d suggest in my completely, non reflective of anyone else, opinion.. that Talbot and others would be quite successful within a pyramid set up 

[Fifes finest]

Moving to a league where there’s a fixture list that allows you to plan ahead, allows access to a license if the works put in which in turn brings in income, playing at a level with more chance of assistant referees and allows the chance to progress.

Travel costs would also likely be lower for them.

Or

Stick with the juniors where you get a weeks notice for games, making math sponsorship harder, prize money is non existent (biggest tournaments have no sponsor), most lower league junior games have no linesmen and also some Scottish cup games.

The SJFA/SFA need to sit down and do some proper thinking around this.

In a country our size having two different associations is a nonsense.

Something along the lines of 2 national leagues of 16, a combined west region (west juniors and SOS) multiple levels and further geographical split may keep costs down), same in the east and north. Round robin by the 3 league winners and top team goes up with bottom team down and 2nd place plays off against second bottom. Clubs should also be able to opt out of promotion at the start of each season. The licensing also needs to be reviewed as part of this, there should be a national license along the lines of how it’s written today but that doesn’t work for smaller clubs trying to better them selves. Entry level should also be tiered to reflect the small clubs that are part time and run by volunteers. With entry level gold required if a club wishes to be promoted

The Sat Amateurs should also be included.

Keep the Scottish and league cup, a non league cup covering the regions and each region can add in a cup or 2 where desired.

Otherwise I don’t see how a number of clubs can continue to survive how our grade is. The biggest issue is that everyone votes on self interest and the tail tends to wag the dug.

Superb post buddy [emoji122][emoji122]

[Guest]

6 hours ago, kenny131 said:

What you slobbering about fat man,  I was replying to your horseshit post. Suck it up as it's happening whether you like it or not all the top teams in the west will be sucked into the pyramid when it happens you will go from top of the juniors to bottom feeder like the rest of us.

Ah, inaccurate personal insults, way to go Kenny, way to go!